Froome Awesomeness Poll

[LaFlorecita]

The way you put it, he has nothing to lose. Arranging things in a way you have nothing to lose could be a sign of fear to lose something...

Indeed, it could be, but I think in this case it is just a convenient side-effect.

 

[Pricey_sky]

We know that's their call. That's not what is being placed up for critical discussion here. Any rider can decide what to personally take on, or not to take on. And anyone can decide, given the current rivalries and a certain blandness that comes with focusing exclusively on Tour, what is to be applauded more and what is to be viewed with less admiration in modern cycling.

Once attempting the double was normal for a great rider of a certain caliber, now it has become too risky, is said to be no longer possible. However, these opinions (however scientifically informed), have made the sport less fascinating and more bland. It's nice to know someone is willing to abandon the script, despite the risk and impossibility. But if he succeeds?

Well, if he succeeds then I will be the first (perhaps 2nd after Flo ) to say well done and admire what a monumental effort it is.

The money and fame offered to Tour winners nowadays does put extra pressure on riders to make sure they are in top shape in July, perhaps this pressure also comes from bosses who want to make as much money as they can. We've seen riders happy to take an anonymous top 10 in the tour instead of going for the usually weaker fields of the other 2 GT's.

 

[Jspear]

Indeed, it could be, but I think in this case it is just a convenient side-effect.

In the grand scheme of things he has nothing to lose - he has already accomplished so much. Of course for this year he has something to lose - he could crash, get sick, or whatever...in that sense ever rider has "something to lose."

 

[hfer07]

FOA - Froome awesomeness should have been him going with Contador for the Double-- that I think could have been the ultimate measure of challenge & commitment to put all the disliking & bashing to to the rest.

The first element of Froome getting to the 2013 dominance level is SKY as a team: Last year was dull for them with the repetitive illness & injury pattern from early season-which forced some of the key players like Porte- to weaken their races performance & drain all the reserves aimed to help Froome during the key races. The second element is the "tactics" - Brailsford must either hire better DS crew of reset the approach to racing, because is evident that most teams have already caught up on the SKY system & risen their level to compete head to head, so what is lacking there is the inventiveness & improvisation approach to racing done properly.
The last element is of course- Froome himself! - will he able to reach the 2013 thermonuclear level once more? has he just reached his peak and is fading? has Contador & the rest already figured out how to defeat him? Does Froome have more resources to challenge Contador beyond his current skills?- will he go for a long range attack if need it be?

Hope he provides the entertaining needed to appreciate him a bit more

 

[rhubroma]

FOA - Froome awesomeness should have been him going with Contador for the Double-- that I think could have been the ultimate measure of challenge & commitment to put all the disliking & bashing to to the rest.

The first element of Froome getting to the 2013 dominance level is SKY as a team: Last year was dull for them with the repetitive illness & injury pattern from early season-which forced some of the key players like Porte- to weaken their races performance & drain all the reserves aimed to help Froome during the key races. The second element is the "tactics" - Brailsford must either hire better DS crew of reset the approach to racing, because is evident that most teams have already caught up on the SKY system & risen their level to compete head to head, so what is lacking there is the inventiveness & improvisation approach to racing done properly.
The last element is of course- Froome himself! - will he able to reach the 2013 thermonuclear level once more? has he just reached his peak and is fading? has Contador & the rest already figured out how to defeat him? Does Froome have more resources to challenge Contador beyond his current skills?- will he go for a long range attack if need it be?

Hope he provides the entertaining needed to appreciate him a bit more

See I don't think Froome was less on form in 2014 than 2013, its just the plan didn't come together as before. As far as AC goes, in 2013 he was decidedly not on form. Whereas last year he obviously was and he had the better of Froome. This is why it would be entertaining for them to be going for the same objective in 2015.

We thought we'd have seen it at this years Tour, but cycling is so unpredicatable and such was not meant to be, even if it has become recently too formulaic.

 

[Kwibus]

Im really looking forward to 2015 cycling season, what I don't look forward too is another year of endless bickering about what if and he should and asterisks, because some rider do and some don't ride the Giro.

Mother of god! People get over it!

 

[Carols]

Im really looking forward to 2015 cycling season, what I don't look forward too is another year of endless bickering about what if and he should and asterisks, because some rider do and some don't ride the Giro.

Mother of god! People get over it!

Spoken For Truth!!!!

 

[Archibald]

But if he succeeds?

Clinic will go into overdrive

Unless...

the Tour win comes from a bit of luck with Quintana and Froome falling off or having some bad luck of some sort (think Valverde's constant issues that drops him down the lists each year)

this is where rhubroma is coming from - the others, including Froome (as this is a thread about him), really have nothing to fear in taking on the same challenge of the Giro/Tour double.

Would make for an epic pair of GTs...

 

[damian13ster]

Im really looking forward to 2015 cycling season, what I don't look forward too is another year of endless bickering about what if and he should and asterisks, because some rider do and some don't ride the Giro.

Mother of god! People get over it!

Agreed! For me, there are no asterisks in races unless there is some immoral action along the way (see Stelvio). When the doper finishes first, a rider who arrived first without use of illegal substances wins the race. No asterisk
A rider has no influence over which rider's show up in a race, manage to finish it, or what shape they are in- no asterisks.

Get over it.

Contador chose to go against weakest field- go for it, its his choice. If he wins I will be first to congratulate him and he will have another GT to his name- no asterisk.

If other choose to focus on the Tour where all the best riders are going to be and Vuelta- so be it.

 

[rhubroma]

Agreed! For me, there are no asterisks in races unless there is some immoral action along the way (see Stelvio). When the doper finishes first, a rider who arrived first without use of illegal substances wins the race. No asterisk
A rider has no influence over which rider's show up in a race, manage to finish it, or what shape they are in- no asterisks.

Get over it.

Contador chose to go against weakest field- go for it, its his choice. If he wins I will be first to congratulate him and he will have another GT to his name- no asterisk.

If other choose to focus on the Tour where all the best riders are going to be and Vuelta- so be it.

Nah, I think you don't contextualize. Because if Contador only wins the Giro, then he has failed to win the double, which puts an asterisk on his career, by his own goals.

 

[Escarabajo]

Agreed, of course if Alberto does not win the Tour because he's tired, it's his own fault. However, people will always wonder "what if...." so in that regard, the winner would always have an asterisk next to their name unless the winner is Alberto

Sorry but the only asterisk will be in your head. Now every other rider is at fault for not doing the double? are you kidding me?

Let's stop this nonsense!!

 

[RiccoDinko]

TDF is the Big Crown, Contador will be lucky to win the giro.

 

[Electress]

Not sure it is entirely fair to say AC chose to go against the weakest field…he stated he was going to do the Giro and it was suggested that others could join him there. They choose not to but he didn't know they wouldn't. You can no more criticise him for his choice than theirs for choosing not to go.

No matter what, there'll be what ifs and if onlys, because racing never turns out how it is 'supposed to'. Whatever, I personally feel that trying to do something very difficult and failing, is sometimes better than going for the easier goal. I'm not going to asterisk anyone for doing that.

Regarding Froome, I am interested in whether Sky can develop a bit more variety in their tactics. I think their predictability as well as injuries and so on, didn't help them n 2014. Likewise, I think Froome and Sky feel more vulnerable mentally than they did after 2013, when they had an aura of dominance / unbeatability about them which simply isn't there any more.

I expect Froome to be highly competitive; but I don't think he or Sky will enjoy the dominance they had in 2013, even if they win the Tour, it won't be in quite the same way. I think either of the boys from Movistar are more likely to win the Vuelta than Froome, tbh.

 

[Angliru]

Not sure it is entirely fair to say AC chose to go against the weakest field…he stated he was going to do the Giro and it was suggested that others could join him there. They choose not to but he didn't know they wouldn't. You can no more criticise him for his choice than theirs for choosing not to go.

No matter what, there'll be what ifs and if onlys, because racing never turns out how it is 'supposed to'. Whatever, I personally feel that trying to do something very difficult and failing, is sometimes better than going for the easier goal. I'm not going to asterisk anyone for doing that.

Regarding Froome, I am interested in whether Sky can develop a bit more variety in their tactics. I think their predictability as well as injuries and so on, didn't help them n 2014. Likewise, I think Froome and Sky feel more vulnerable mentally than they did after 2013, when they had an aura of dominance / unbeatability about them which simply isn't there any more.

I expect Froome to be highly competitive; but I don't think he or Sky will enjoy the dominance they had in 2013, even if they win the Tour, it won't be in quite the same way. I think either of the boys from Movistar are more likely to win the Vuelta than Froome, tbh.

Agree with all of the above especially regarding Froome and the Vuelta. While he's shown he can maintain good form for long periods, his display in 2012 and his admission of what he feels are his limitations when it comes to back-to-back grand tours, going for the win in both (his words ), I would doubt if he even attempts to enter the Vuelta, having failed in the past.

 

[damian13ster]

Highly competative?

I wouldn't be surprised if he wins the double, just without that PR crap, media attention seeking, and against very strong fields.

Of course more ITTs (why is there so few in GTs this year?) wont help but if he doesnt lose much on cobbles he is a favorite in TdF imho, same in Vuelta

 

[Angliru]

TDF is the Big Crown, Contador will be lucky to win the giro.

When/if he wins the Giro, luck will have little to do with it. I wouldn't dismiss his chances in the Tour either. It will be a difficult task but I would say he's the only one of his contemporaries who could pull it off.

 

[Angliru]

Highly competative?

I wouldn't be surprised if he wins the double, just without that PR crap, media attention seeking, and against very strong fields.

Of course more ITTs (why is there so few in GTs this year?) wont help but if he doesnt lose much on cobbles he is a favorite in TdF imho, same in Vuelta

He tried back-to-back grand tours once and in the end the result was being 10 minutes off the pace of the winner. Like I said, I don't see him even trying it.

 

[Merckx index]

I don’t know how anyone looks at 2011, and concludes that Bert has much chance of winning the TDF following the Giro this year. He was probably at his peak that year, and though the Giro had a tough course, he dominated it, which means he didn’t have to go all out in the later stages. And still he didn’t really challenge for the yellow in the TDF. A Tour in which so many big names crashed out early—Wiggins, Vino, Klodi, Horner, VDB—that one could describe the last two weeks as one with a relatively weak field.

To be fair, Bert also crashed twice in the early stages in that Tour. As a result, he lost time, and possibly form, how much we can never know. Had he not crashed and lost that time and perhaps strength, he might have podiumed, but again, in a field decimated of other contenders. I don’t think that even absent those crashes he would have been a serious contender for yellow.

I think he’s in the Giro because he wants to join Hinault as the only riders to win at least two of each GT. I think he sees the Giro as pretty much a sure thing, whereas if he focuses solely on the Tour, and doesn’t win, his season will be a huge disappointment. I’m sure he’s telling himself that he can win both, but you could say a strong streak of denial is an important part of every major athlete’s toolbox.

Bottom line: how is this year different from 2011? Is he stronger now than he was then? Highly doubtful. Is the TDF field this year weaker than it was then? No way, particularly if you compare the start list to 2011’s finish list (remember, Tommy V. almost podiumed).

And same with Froome, who also has tried the Tour-Vuelta double before. This one at least makes more sense, because if you win the TDF, you don’t care that much if you don’t win the Vuelta. But the odds of his doing it are IMO really small.

Which suggests an answer to Rhubroma's complaint. Suppose the TDF was the first GT of the season, instead of the second, and followed by the Giro. Then we would see a lot of riders going for the double, because after winning the Tour, the Giro would be just frosting on the cake, rather than the biggest race of the season. I assume this is very unlikely to happen, the TDF would have to be held earlier, but if organizers wanted to encourage riders to do both in the same season, this would be the way to go about it. Maybe if several major contenders got together and expressed their wish to do the double, the format could be changed just for that season, and occasionally in others?

 

[damian13ster]

He tried back-to-back grand tours once and in the end the result was being 10 minutes off the pace of the winner. Like I said, I don't see him even trying it.

Well, he held his peak for a really long time in 2013, and 2014 in that matter.
2014 he was dominant before crashes, then hit the tarmac multiple times, yet was still second best rider in Vuelta (that he wasnt planning to ride).

I know past results in GTs dont indicate that, but I think it is very likely he can win Vuelta. Who is going to beat him there? Valverde, Purito, Nibali (also riding second GT) who are all going to lose time in TT?
If he gets through first week of the tour it wouldnt be beyond imagination for him to pull off the double.

 

[rick james]

Where are folk getting the information from that froome will do the vuelta?

 

[Dr. Juice]

I don’t know how anyone looks at 2011, and concludes that Bert has much chance of winning the TDF following the Giro this year. He was probably at his peak that year, and though the Giro had a tough course, he dominated it, which means he didn’t have to go all out in the later stages. And still he didn’t really challenge for the yellow in the TDF. A Tour in which so many big names crashed out early—Wiggins, Vino, Klodi, Horner, VDB—that one could describe the last two weeks as one with a relatively weak field.

To be fair, Bert also crashed twice in the early stages in that Tour. As a result, he lost time, and possibly form, how much we can never know. Had he not crashed and lost that time and perhaps strength, he might have podiumed, but again, in a field decimated of other contenders. I don’t think that even absent those crashes he would have been a serious contender for yellow.

I think he’s in the Giro because he wants to join Hinault as the only riders to win at least two of each GT. I think he sees the Giro as pretty much a sure thing, whereas if he focuses solely on the Tour, and doesn’t win, his season will be a huge disappointment. I’m sure he’s telling himself that he can win both, but you could say a strong streak of denial is an important part of every major athlete’s toolbox.

Bottom line: how is this year different from 2011? Is he stronger now than he was then? Highly doubtful. Is the TDF field this year weaker than it was then? No way, particularly if you compare the start list to 2011’s finish list (remember, Tommy V. almost podiumed).

And same with Froome, who also has tried the Tour-Vuelta double before. This one at least makes more sense, because if you win the TDF, you don’t care that much if you don’t win the Vuelta. But the odds of his doing it are IMO really small.

Which suggests an answer to Rhubroma's complaint. Suppose the TDF was the first GT of the season, instead of the second, and followed by the Giro. Then we would see a lot of riders going for the double, because after winning the Tour, the Giro would be just frosting on the cake, rather than the biggest race of the season. I assume this is very unlikely to happen, the TDF would have to be held earlier, but if organizers wanted to encourage riders to do both in the same season, this would be the way to go about it. Maybe if several major contenders got together and expressed their wish to do the double, the format could be changed just for that season, and occasionally in others?

It's a big difference if you go to the Tour after a super hard Giro at the last moment..then crash 4 times...or if you base your season + training around that double.

 

[Parker]

Bottom line: how is this year different from 2011? Is he stronger now than he was then? Highly doubtful. Is the TDF field this year weaker than it was then? No way, particularly if you compare the start list to 2011’s finish list (remember, Tommy V. almost podiumed).

The main difference is that this time he is planning to do both. In 2011 he rode the Giro because he had a doping hearing with CAS set for June. He probably expected to be banned for the Tour. By the time the hearing got pushed to August allowing him to do the Tour he had already done the Giro.

I think he'll struggle to do it though

 

[LaFlorecita]

Bottom line: how is this year different from 2011? Is he stronger now than he was then? Highly doubtful. Is the TDF field this year weaker than it was then? No way, particularly if you compare the start list to 2011’s finish list (remember, Tommy V. almost podiumed).

It is MUCH different. I think he was stronger last year than in 2011. In 2011 he went all out in an incredibly hard Giro. In 2011 he lost 1'20" on the first stage of the TDF and spent the rest of the race trying to make up the time lost with desperate attacks on descents. He also crashed hard and got a back, head and knee injury. Later he got pushed off his bike by Karpets and hurt his knee even more. I don't have to post the picture of Alberto's knee again, do I? I expect everyone has seen it by now. Without the time lost on stage 1, he would have finished 10 seconds off the podium. Without the massive bonk on Galibier, he would have finished 2nd @ 1'10". Is it really such a stretch to believe with better training, better preparation, less crashes and injuries and an easier Giro he could win the thing, even if the field is stronger? It's not extremely likely, but I think it's weird to state that it's nigh impossible.
Bottom line: there is a whole lot of room for improvement

 

[cineteq]

Bottom line: how is this year different from 2011? Is he stronger now than he was then? Highly doubtful. Is the TDF field this year weaker than it was then? No way, particularly if you compare the start list to 2011’s finish list (remember, Tommy V. almost podiumed).

Not also that. Is he getting any younger? Is he recovering faster than in 2011? This year, the TdF will have, arguably, the best field in years and one 28Km ITT. I hope he, Riis and Tinkoff come to their senses and bypass the Giro in favor of focusing on the Tour, and probably La Vuelta.

 

[Netserk]

Not also that. Is he getting any younger?

No. Does it matter? No.

Is he recovering faster than in 2011?

I certainly haven't seen any signs that he is recovering slower

This year, the TdF will have, arguably, the best field in years and one 28Km ITT.

Source? Either way, please explain why that matters, when Contador is the best climber in the world and worse than Froome in the ITT

I hope he, Riis and Tinkoff come to their senses and bypass the Giro in favor of focusing on the Tour, and probably La Vuelta.

Alberto wants to win the Giro-Tour double before he retires. Only way to do that is to try.