Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[jsem94]

He's Kenyan again, never was British lmao.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

He's Kenyan again, never was British lmao.

Who's saying that lol?

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

No wonder he said he was doing the giro knowing full well he wouldn't ... this is a weird one, either rank stupidity or perhaps he thought it being the vuelta he would get away with it. They will probably blame Spanish salbutamol asthma medication.

Difficult to believe either one really isn't it?

I guess we just have to wait and see what the excuses Sky come out with look like, and then we can take a view on wether or not they're any more or less plausible than the 2 options you present.

I'm guessing plenty of people will have already made up their minds on this one though without needing to see what Sky come out with. Can't fault this really with all the anti trust that they bought upon themselves with the whole jiffy bag sags.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

For the team's sake they need to have medical records that have already been turned over and stand up to forensic scrutiny.

To a layman, double concentration seems somewhat high even if he was puffing to the limit. Looking at the WADA code that's 8 puffs of a 100 mcg inhaler in a 12 hour period (and 16 puffs in a 24 hour period). If he was using a 200 mcg inhaler by accident, or didn't realise the 8-in-12 part then that could explain it. Other forms still seem to be banned. I wonder now if there's some trick with a spacer to get maximum uptake of salbutamol from 800 mcg.

If I needed that many puffs of an inhaler, I don't think medical advice would be to cycle up a hill.

Sorry but there's no way i'm buying that this was any kind of mistake/accident. This isn't a medication that's new to Froome. As one of the most tested athletes on the planet (stop laughing at the back) you/your medical team simply do not make such fundamental errors.

It is all part of Brailsford's master plan. Bernal needs the spot he deserves in the team starting next season.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

No wonder he said he was doing the giro knowing full well he wouldn't ... this is a weird one, either rank stupidity or perhaps he thought it being the vuelta he would get away with it. They will probably blame Spanish salbutamol asthma medication.

Difficult to believe either one really isn't it?

I guess we just have to wait and see what the excuses Sky come out with look like, and then we can take a view on wether or not they're any more or less plausible than the 2 options you present.

I'm guessing plenty of people will have already made up their minds on this one though without needing to see what Sky come out with. Can't fault this really with all the anti trust that they bought upon themselves with the whole jiffy bag sags.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/dec/13/chris-froome-team-sky-reputation-abnormal-drug-test

Brailsfraud has already made clear what Sky's excuses will be...

'The team principal, Sir Dave Brailsford, said: “There are complex medical and physiological issues which affect the metabolism and excretion of Salbutamol. We’re committed to establishing the facts and understanding exactly what happened on this occasion. I have the utmost confidence that Chris followed the medical guidance in managing his asthma symptoms, staying within the permissible dose for salbutamol. Of course, we will do whatever we can to help address these questions.” '

 

[MartinGT]

Re: Re:

No wonder he said he was doing the giro knowing full well he wouldn't ... this is a weird one, either rank stupidity or perhaps he thought it being the vuelta he would get away with it. They will probably blame Spanish salbutamol asthma medication.

Difficult to believe either one really isn't it?

I guess we just have to wait and see what the excuses Sky come out with look like, and then we can take a view on wether or not they're any more or less plausible than the 2 options you present.

I'm guessing plenty of people will have already made up their minds on this one though without needing to see what Sky come out with. Can't fault this really with all the anti trust that they bought upon themselves with the whole jiffy bag sags.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/dec/13/chris-froome-team-sky-reputation-abnormal-drug-test

Brailsfraud has already made clear what Sky's excuses will be...

'The team principal, Sir Dave Brailsford, said: “There are complex medical and physiological issues which affect the metabolism and excretion of Salbutamol. We’re committed to establishing the facts and understanding exactly what happened on this occasion. I have the utmost confidence that Chris followed the medical guidance in managing his asthma symptoms, staying within the permissible dose for salbutamol. Of course, we will do whatever we can to help address these questions.” '

But hasnt that been proved he didnt

 

[brownbobby]

Re: Re:

No wonder he said he was doing the giro knowing full well he wouldn't ... this is a weird one, either rank stupidity or perhaps he thought it being the vuelta he would get away with it. They will probably blame Spanish salbutamol asthma medication.

Difficult to believe either one really isn't it?

I guess we just have to wait and see what the excuses Sky come out with look like, and then we can take a view on wether or not they're any more or less plausible than the 2 options you present.

I'm guessing plenty of people will have already made up their minds on this one though without needing to see what Sky come out with. Can't fault this really with all the anti trust that they bought upon themselves with the whole jiffy bag sags.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/dec/13/chris-froome-team-sky-reputation-abnormal-drug-test

Brailsfraud has already made clear what Sky's excuses will be...

'The team principal, Sir Dave Brailsford, said: “There are complex medical and physiological issues which affect the metabolism and excretion of Salbutamol. We’re committed to establishing the facts and understanding exactly what happened on this occasion. I have the utmost confidence that Chris followed the medical guidance in managing his asthma symptoms, staying within the permissible dose for salbutamol. Of course, we will do whatever we can to help address these questions.” '

But hasnt that been proved he didnt

No it hasn't...i think the argument is that dose consumed is not always linear to the concentration within the body.

 

[hrotha]

I'm a bit baffled by the comments along the lines of "Froome knew he'd be tested so why would he take it as a PED?".

Surely, if nobody miscalculated no one of note would ever get caught.

 

[yaco]

What's more concerning for me is the offence was after stage 18, while it was stage 17 to Muchacho's in which Froome struggled - Colour me cynical but there is a pattern with Sky in the last few years.

 

[WheelofGear]

So Salbutamol is heroin of performance enhancing drugs? More effective than "oldschool drugs" like EPO and blood doping?

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

No wonder he said he was doing the giro knowing full well he wouldn't ... this is a weird one, either rank stupidity or perhaps he thought it being the vuelta he would get away with it. They will probably blame Spanish salbutamol asthma medication.

Difficult to believe either one really isn't it?

I guess we just have to wait and see what the excuses Sky come out with look like, and then we can take a view on wether or not they're any more or less plausible than the 2 options you present.

I'm guessing plenty of people will have already made up their minds on this one though without needing to see what Sky come out with. Can't fault this really with all the anti trust that they bought upon themselves with the whole jiffy bag sags.

I made up my mind years ago. Don't care what Sky come up with. Just hope he loses the Vuelta - and thus becomes even more tainted

 

[PremierAndrew]

So, Sky, zero tolerance would mean terminating Froomes contract, right?

 

[bambino]

Re:

What's more concerning for me is the offence was after stage 18, while it was stage 17 to Muchacho's in which Froome struggled - Colour me cynical but there is a pattern with Sky in the last few years.

Floyd Landis approves.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

So Salbutamol is heroin of performance enhancing drugs? More effective than "oldschool drugs" like EPO and blood doping?

Wasn't there a joruno who a few years ago took EPO tried the tests and passed them?

Basically proving EPO can easily pass cycling's tests?

Since Froome is doping with Salbutamol, why would we not also believe he is doping with EPO?

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

No wonder he said he was doing the giro knowing full well he wouldn't ... this is a weird one, either rank stupidity or perhaps he thought it being the vuelta he would get away with it. They will probably blame Spanish salbutamol asthma medication.

Difficult to believe either one really isn't it?

I guess we just have to wait and see what the excuses Sky come out with look like, and then we can take a view on wether or not they're any more or less plausible than the 2 options you present.

I'm guessing plenty of people will have already made up their minds on this one though without needing to see what Sky come out with. Can't fault this really with all the anti trust that they bought upon themselves with the whole jiffy bag sags.

I made up my mind years ago. Don't care what Sky come up with. Just hope he loses the Vuelta - and thus becomes even more tainted

I’m just glad that it’s come during a BIG win, because it takes out the “we were only keeping up” defence.

 

[WheelofGear]

What are they going to do without Froome?

Thomas for Giro, Kwai for Tour and Poels/Henao for Vuelta?

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

I'm a bit baffled by the comments along the lines of "Froome knew he'd be tested so why would he take it as a PED?".

Surely, if nobody miscalculated no one of note would ever get caught.

I think there's a difference to the majority of people who get caught here. Taking a risk with game changing PED's, out of competition and then being caught out by random OOC testing, miscalculating half life's or underestimating how good testing is for certain types of PED's is one thing.

Taking a drug that you're very familiar with, one for which testing protocols are very well known and established knowing that you're 100% certain to be tested the next day, is entirely different.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Just as point of reference, where I live it's recommended that a patient be hospitalized if they require more than 625 ug (5 doses of 125 ug) of Salbutamol in a 24 hour period. From there, it's constant monitoring, tons of Salbutamol, and big whack of a systemic steroid until stabilized.

The levels he was taking weren't therapeutic, unless he was taking some big risks with his asthma.

John Swanson

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re:

What are they going to do without Froome?

Thomas for Giro, Kwai for Tour and Poels/Henao for Vuelta?

G a happy man this morning...?

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

I'm a bit baffled by the comments along the lines of "Froome knew he'd be tested so why would he take it as a PED?".

Surely, if nobody miscalculated no one of note would ever get caught.

I think there's a difference to the majority of people who get caught here. Taking a risk with game changing PED's, out of competition and then being caught out by random OOC testing, miscalculating half life's or underestimating how good testing is for certain types of PED's is one thing.

Taking a drug that you're very familiar with, one for which testing protocols are very well known and established knowing that you're 100% certain to be tested the next day, is entirely different.

It might be as simple as using it strictly as a PED for much of your career, then forgetting you had already taken your dose that morning and doubling it by mistake.

 

[MartinGT]

Re:

So, Sky, zero tolerance would mean terminating Froomes contract, right?

He was taking advice from the doc. So does the doc get binned?

 

[Barbapapa]

Re:

He's Kenyan again, never was British lmao.

Hi, I have been a long time lurker, and I realy felt I needed to register now.

I am an asthmatic myself and have a little medical schooling. You are right about the half life time of Salbutamol. And while there is some doubt on concentrations higher than 1400ng/ml, cast by more recent studies, I agree with you this is very likely foul play.

It is highly unlikely to take double the amount of 'puffs' than allowed.16 vs 32? Not likely.

But how unlikely is it that an oral dosage accidentally got doubled? Perhaps by taking a pill of the wrong dosage or by accidentally taking 2 instead of one? Also note that oral administration of Salbutamol has been judged as performance enhancing in healthy humans more so than inhaled Salbutamol. (If this is due to difference in concentrations in the blood with normal inhalations vs oral use, or something else, I do not know )

Also, the half life time is between 4-6 hours in vitro. Has anyone seen Froome taking Salbutamol during the race? If no,this means his peak blood values of Salbutamol have likely been much(?)higher than the measured value.

To me this gun smokes way to much to be dismissed as anything but willful doping

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Could the high reading be because the Froome Dog took salbutamol by another method (injection, orally) for performance benefit under cover of the asthma excuse BS?

Froome supposedy had 2000mg. Maximum concentration found after inhalation was 1400mg. Definitely not inhalation by Froome

Dawg mainlining it :lol:

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

How many puffs would you need to take to reach 2000ng/ml?

Must've been a really big effort coming up since he "only uses it before big efforts".

The limit of 1000 ng/ml in the urine is calculated for 16 puffs (16!!!!!)

Froome took at least twice that dose!

Woah. Most asthmatics I know take 2, sometimes 3 max. I could see an athlete taking more, but 32???

And that depends on whether he was using the 50 ug or 125 ug inhaler...

John Swanson

 

[WheelofGear]

Re: Re:

What are they going to do without Froome?

Thomas for Giro, Kwai for Tour and Poels/Henao for Vuelta?

G a happy man this morning...?

It might be a good thing for Team Sky since they also have the chance to take a look into the future of the team (Bernal, Sivakov). Froome will be 33 next year and 32 year old Thomas is soon gone, they need a future.