Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Benotti69]

Re:

Amateurs are using them because they are cheap and easy. EBikes are becoming popular. Nothing to do with them "filtering down from the pros". This tread has lots of worthy theories about Froome but use of motors is a long way down the lost of suspects. Stating such just detracts from the credibility of the entire clinic and the posters themselves. Pick up your game.

Femke was racing on an E bike?

The clinics credibility may be low, i dunno, dont care either. But pro cycling's credibility is non existent.

I remember posters saying repeating the Armstrong excuse no way would he do drugs after cancer.

Motors are a thing, plenty of worthy evidence points to their use. Froome's 3 week improvement could easily be explained by a motor.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I seriously doubt a motor had anything to do with the 2011 Vuelta. The Steve Houanard Principle seems much more fertile ground for that. Froome was not part of the inner circle at Sky at that point, and if motors were going to be used you would think they would start the game with the bigger names than Chris Froome; they hadn't signed him on for 2012 at that stage so they sure as hell weren't going to be letting a rider go with information that could kill both the team and its entire stated aims in one hit. For Froome to be doing it independently of the team would require some bike-tampering that a mechanic would either have noticed or been complicit in, Froome certainly won't have been a big enough fish at that stage to justify a personal mechanic so I don't see this as especially likely either. It would seem to me to be much more likely that it was a final hail mary for a career that was once decently promising and had been drifting aimlessly, to prove he deserved more than a minimum WT domestique wage contract from Garmin or Lampre, and then being admitted to the inner circle on the back of it because he was either too much of a wildcard to keep on the outside (likely the Vuelta 2011 took the team by surprise and they might have been concerned if he was going into business for himself that he'd be reckless and ruin things for the whole team, whereas involving him in the plans for the central team would keep him close) or too potentially useful to let go, or both.

However, I'd like to contest brownbobby's assertion that in the previous cases regarding motorized bikes, very few people paid attention beforehand and nobody cared afterward. I seem to recall Femke's case being quite a big deal, and certainly a much bigger story than had she won that race fair and square.

 

[Alpe73]

Re:

I seriously doubt a motor had anything to do with the 2011 Vuelta. The Steve Houanard Principle seems much more fertile ground for that. Froome was not part of the inner circle at Sky at that point, and if motors were going to be used you would think they would start the game with the bigger names than Chris Froome; they hadn't signed him on for 2012 at that stage so they sure as hell weren't going to be letting a rider go with information that could kill both the team and its entire stated aims in one hit. For Froome to be doing it independently of the team would require some bike-tampering that a mechanic would either have noticed or been complicit in, Froome certainly won't have been a big enough fish at that stage to justify a personal mechanic so I don't see this as especially likely either. It would seem to me to be much more likely that it was a final hail mary for a career that was once decently promising and had been drifting aimlessly, to prove he deserved more than a minimum WT domestique wage contract from Garmin or Lampre, and then being admitted to the inner circle on the back of it because he was either too much of a wildcard to keep on the outside (likely the Vuelta 2011 took the team by surprise and they might have been concerned if he was going into business for himself that he'd be reckless and ruin things for the whole team, whereas involving him in the plans for the central team would keep him close) or too potentially useful to let go, or both.

However, I'd like to contest brownbobby's assertion that in the previous cases regarding motorized bikes, very few people paid attention beforehand and nobody cared afterward. I seem to recall Femke's case being quite a big deal, and certainly a much bigger story than had she won that race fair and square.

Of course, bike motors are a real 'possibility.' They exist and have been used, as has been widely reported. Of course, it becomes a topic of discussion.

Your posts are widely respected on this forum ... as your knowledge of the sport seems deep.

In your honest opinion .... what are the (%) chances that Chris Froome has used a motor in any WT races over the last 3-5 years?

Thanks in advance.

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

I seriously doubt a motor had anything to do with the 2011 Vuelta. The Steve Houanard Principle seems much more fertile ground for that. Froome was not part of the inner circle at Sky at that point, and if motors were going to be used you would think they would start the game with the bigger names than Chris Froome; they hadn't signed him on for 2012 at that stage so they sure as hell weren't going to be letting a rider go with information that could kill both the team and its entire stated aims in one hit. For Froome to be doing it independently of the team would require some bike-tampering that a mechanic would either have noticed or been complicit in, Froome certainly won't have been a big enough fish at that stage to justify a personal mechanic so I don't see this as especially likely either. It would seem to me to be much more likely that it was a final hail mary for a career that was once decently promising and had been drifting aimlessly, to prove he deserved more than a minimum WT domestique wage contract from Garmin or Lampre, and then being admitted to the inner circle on the back of it because he was either too much of a wildcard to keep on the outside (likely the Vuelta 2011 took the team by surprise and they might have been concerned if he was going into business for himself that he'd be reckless and ruin things for the whole team, whereas involving him in the plans for the central team would keep him close) or too potentially useful to let go, or both.

However, I'd like to contest brownbobby's assertion that in the previous cases regarding motorized bikes, very few people paid attention beforehand and nobody cared afterward. I seem to recall Femke's case being quite a big deal, and certainly a much bigger story than had she won that race fair and square.

That's not what I said, Or at least not what was intended to be said.

I said nobody was interested or paying close attention to the races, yet still someone noticed the motors because they were so obvious. That was the point.

Of course people cared and it was a big story afterwards.

 

[macbindle]

To be clear it was Benotti69 (and thehog)who claimed that nobody was looking, or interested.

They both went very quiet when I pointed out that the Italian police were so disinterested that they sent police teams to the Giro and to MSR in 2015 precisely to look for motors.

Yes, as Libertine Seguros points out, the motor story for Froome in '11 seems bizarre. It also begs the question as to why they didn't motorize Wiggins for longer than one year, if motors were in use.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Kerrison said. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-froomes-coach-blames-media-for-salbutamol-case-backlash
"If he's found to be innocent it just shouldn't take the months and months that it has done to resolve the situation."

I guess if he's found guilty it can take as much time as it takes for CF to retire.



nb: Froome has hired a bodyguard and the team have consulted with BSkyB's security team for safety advice on how to handle potentially hostile crowds.

 

[rick james]

Froome has had a body guard at races for at least 2 years now, on some of the videos that get posted before the race starts you can clearly see him running beside Froome.,,,the guy is hard to miss

 

[Alpe73]

Re:

Kerrison said. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-froomes-coach-blames-media-for-salbutamol-case-backlash
"If he's found to be innocent it just shouldn't take the months and months that it has done to resolve the situation."

I guess if he's found guilty it can take as much time as it takes for CF to retire.



nb: Froome has hired a bodyguard and the team have consulted with BSkyB's security team for safety advice on how to handle potentially hostile crowds.

Duly noted.

I'm sure that the French fans will be as respectful as the Italian fans ... and if not ... any fringe nut jobs who might try to assault the Dawg ... will be dealt with firmly and effectively by the appropriate authorities. All good.

Shameful that Hinault tried to whip up unnecessary furor because of his petty bitterness. An old lion without claws.

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

Froome has had a body guard at races for at least 2 years now, on some of the videos that get posted before the race starts you can clearly see him running beside Froome.,,,the guy is hard to miss

Indeed. It's a sad reflection of the world we live in that wealthy and successful people need personal protection

 

[macbindle]

Social media, and the ease at which a furore can be whipped up amongst the idiot population.

People seem to love to point fingers, condemn, and get all lathered up in self-justified anger. It's weird when it is about something that really doesn't matter...like a bicycle race.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Froome has had a body guard at races for at least 2 years now, on some of the videos that get posted before the race starts you can clearly see him running beside Froome.,,,the guy is hard to miss

You mean a soigneur

 

[brownbobby]

Re: Re:

Froome has had a body guard at races for at least 2 years now, on some of the videos that get posted before the race starts you can clearly see him running beside Froome.,,,the guy is hard to miss

You mean a soigneur

Ok, a Soigneur. Who just happens to be 7 foot tall, built like a s+#thouse and could probably snap your neck between his thumb and index finger in one swift move

But I’m sure it was his skill in handing out cold towels that landed him the job :lol:

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re:

Social media, and the ease at which a furore can be whipped up amongst the idiot population.

People seem to love to point fingers, condemn, and get all lathered up in self-justified anger. It's weird when it is about something that really doesn't matter...like a bicycle race.

Or money and jersey vanity even.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

To be clear it was Benotti69 (and thehog)who claimed that nobody was looking, or interested.

They both went very quiet when I pointed out that the Italian police were so disinterested that they sent police teams to the Giro and to MSR in 2015 precisely to look for motors.

Yes, as Libertine Seguros points out, the motor story for Froome in '11 seems bizarre. It also begs the question as to why they didn't motorize Wiggins for longer than one year, if motors were in use.

Not like someone didn't tip of RCS, who are hugely in debt and they in turn tipped off the teams.

That police turn up to look for motors to me shows that they are being used and someone had to prove to Italian police that this was th cae in order for them to go investigate. Try tell the police to investgiate something without proof and you will be told sorry no deal. So that you try and twist it as look police found zero so therefore no motors is laughable. That the police went looking means someone proved to them that they are in use.

There are lots of questions, always is about motives for this that and the other. Sadly we dont get them all answered.

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

To be clear it was Benotti69 (and thehog)who claimed that nobody was looking, or interested.

They both went very quiet when I pointed out that the Italian police were so disinterested that they sent police teams to the Giro and to MSR in 2015 precisely to look for motors.

Yes, as Libertine Seguros points out, the motor story for Froome in '11 seems bizarre. It also begs the question as to why they didn't motorize Wiggins for longer than one year, if motors were in use.

Not like someone didn't tip of RCS, who are hugely in debt and they in turn tipped off the teams.

That police turn up to look for motors to me shows that they are being used and someone had to prove to Italian police that this was th cae in order for them to go investigate. Try tell the police to investgiate something without proof and you will be told sorry no deal. So that you try and twist it as look police found zero so therefore no motors is laughable. That the police went looking means someone proved to them that they are in use.

There are lots of questions, always is about motives for this that and the other. Sadly we dont get them all answered.

It's a bit hard to read your post. It's very badly written.

To the bolded: This is your straw man. I did no such thing. You were claiming nobody was looking for motors...I showed you that you were wrong, and that the police raided two major races in 2015. Now you are trying twist what I said into something else to hide the fact that you were wrong.

At the start of your post you are making an assertion that the RCS were tipped off about the police raid and in turn tipped off the teams . Yesterday you didn't even know the police had attended the races looking for motors. Yesterday you denied anybody was looking. Today you are saying police looking is proof of use. Consistency is not your strong point

It really would be better for everybody, and especially for you, if you stopped making stuff up.

 

[Merckx index]

Where Froome stands. Length of time from notification of positive until decision in CADF cases:

Da Silva Ramos - 4 months, 24 days
Ruffoni - 7 months, 14 days
Mondory – 8 months, 4 days
Klemencic – 8 months, 15 days
Froome – 9 months, 6 days*
Paolini – 9 months, 8 days
Taborre – 10 months, 3 days
Diniz – 11 months, 21 days
Lacerda - 13 months
Oyarzun – 14 months, 4 days
Nunes – 16 months, 11 days
Kocjan – 17 months, 6 days
Matzka – 21 months, 7 days
Caruso – 22 months, 8 days

*and counting

Yet according to the Results Management, Hearings and Decisions Guidelines (p. 12):

Irrespective of the type of ADRV involved, any anti-doping organization (ADO) should be able to conclude the Results Management and hearing process within a maximum of six months of the date of the commission or discovery of the ADRV.

A footnote adds “For an ADRV resulting from an AAF, the date of commission is the date of the Sample Collection Session." In Froome’s case, that adds 13 days to the time listed above.

A second footnote says,

“There may be exceptions in particularly complex cases, e.g. cases that include detailed scientific evidence and numerous experts’ statements and opinions, and/or where the hearing is delayed due to the experts’ availability…The best practice timeframe is for the hearing to occur no more than 6 months from the date the RMA notified the Participant.”

So they can’t even follow their own guidelines.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Froome turns into Donald Trump, and starts blaming fake news...what a d0uche...maybe if he quit doping, the stories would go away?

 

[macbindle]

Theyll only go away when he quits winning

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re:

Theyll only go away when he quits winning

Same thing.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Checkmate.

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

No no no no no.

Not the same thing. There are people who dope and come 2nd, 3rd, 4th...

He's winning at doping and cycling

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

No no no no no.

Not the same thing. There are people who dope and come 2nd, 3rd, 4th...

He's winning at doping and cycling

That I'll grant you.

He's also winning in being a horror show to watch ride. Every time I watch is washing machine style, I get diarrhea.

 

[macbindle]

Have you tried watching him through a gap in your fingers?

It doesn't really help that much but what else can you do?

 

[brownbobby]

Re: Re:

No no no no no.

Not the same thing. There are people who dope and come 2nd, 3rd, 4th...

He's winning at doping and cycling

That I'll grant you.

He's also winning in being a horror show to watch ride. Every time I watch is washing machine style, I get diarrhea.

There must be something deep inside you that is either terrified or excited every time you watch Froome...the only real cause for diarrhoea type response to something you've witnessed is adrenaline :lol:

 

[thehog]

Re:

Froome turns into Donald Trump, and starts blaming fake news...what a d0uche...maybe if he quit doping, the stories would go away?

The irony being that Froome team is spornsored by a media company. The Dawg is not the brightest spark, Armstrong was smarter with his high school education