Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[silverrocket]

Kerrison hits the nail on the head at the end there, never release data unless you're confident that it is strong supporting evidence of cleanliness.

Well, at least their lack of transparency is becoming much more transparent.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Kerrison hits the nail on the head at the end there, never release data unless you're confident that it is strong supporting evidence of cleanliness.

transparency called. said in fact they haven't been let out of the box once, since sky started...

 

[silverrocket]

very possible.
Riis arrived a bit late, but perhaps with some envelopes for the right people.

Biggest envelope was reserved for the cross-wind, apparently.

 

[Ripper]

I am pleased to see that. But i wasn´t just referring to the riders in the Peloton but also the old guns. Have Merckx said anything about Froome? Hinault? Dare i even say Armstrong?

Surely they´ve must have recognise that we (if clean) are dealing with the most complete athlete of all time. Able to give doped times a run for their money while being able to TT like no "pure climber" ever before.

And yet everything is so silent.

Merckx and Hinault had no problem buddying up with Pharmstrong.

They only move away when someone's guilty ... throw 'em under the bus mentality.

 

[Ripper]

They not only have SRMs, they also have riders and DSes who know how to race (and not just paraphrase trivia and obscure mantras).

Where did you find that quote?

Seems like Hunter is doing some serious trolling.

Does he actually think no one else uses a power meter properly?

 

[131313]

Kerrison hits the nail on the head at the end there, never release data unless you're confident that it is strong supporting evidence of cleanliness.

Funny, there was another person who was a firm believer in not releasing power data, worrying it would be "misinterpreted": Lance Armstrong

 

[blackcat]

Funny, there was another person who was a firm believer in not releasing power data, worrying it would be "misinterpreted": Lance Armstrong

well Wiggins and JV got into trouble with his Giro numbers...

once embarrassed twice shy? numbers are only gonna lend to confimation bias anyhow.

 

[blackcat]

Lets stay focussed, the topic is Christoffer the Great, not bashing Andy Coggan, je vous merci.

Froome must be akin for the Ventoux stage. He will not have help of his teammates though. Saxo have upped the game.

depends on how bad G's hip is. And how long they can hold off using Porte. And HOW they use him. Why Sky need to control the peloton is another matter. who can take time on him in the final chrono? Mollema? no way.

 

[Ripper]

Froome getting dropped today was bullsh*t in my opinion. Someone who can go up mountains like he's on a motorbike suddenly gets dropped by Cavendish on a flat stage. Yeah, right. He's just trying to make his win look less ridiculous, avoiding beating the field by over 10 minutes.

It was more a calculation. Lots of effort made for that minute today, and this is a big weekend. He's planning max effort on the MTFs. And the folks who went into the red today might get hammered big time

 

[DirtyWorks]

depends on how bad G's hip is. And how long they can hold off using Porte. And HOW they use him. Why Sky need to control the peloton is another matter. who can take time on him in the final chrono? Mollema? no way.

If we're talking like someone else has a chance as the GC winner, Froome would have to lose the lead by quite a bit (3 minutes maybe?) before the TT. When Froome goes alien during the TT for the 10th time this race, he won't/can't make enough time back.

That's all pie in the sky talk. He's invincible. Like he was since the time Johann Brailsford discovered him doing 10-20th at a TT.

Oh, and Ripper's post above is right.

 

[Ripper]

Umm...Kittels performance was "diverse"! Foome just missed the split when he was just slightly out of position. It happens. 3 seconds becomes one minute pretty quickly in those sorts of winds. Not everything is about doping, and the dope didn't suddenly stop working or anything. That's just bike racing.

This pretty much sums it up. At that point one has to calculate - kill myself now or gamble a bit and then kill myself for the MTF ...

 

[Franklin]

The only second I could see was the 1' + behind wiggins with gerrant thomas coming behind him in National championship.

-2ND TT in the vuelta 2011 (Behind T Martin)
-2ND TT TDF 2012
-3rd TT OS 2012

Considering those results it's not exactly earthshattering he finished second in the first TT in the TdF. The problem is that even though he's an extremely good TT specialist... he's by far the best climber. That's really worrying.

I don't understand the wattage calculations, but I can differentiate what is plausible improvement and astonishing improvement. WIth Froome, the improvement levels are off the chart. I can allow for a hard-working and fast learning student, as you seem to indicate, but the level of improvement looks suspicious.

(please don't compare with wiggins. That guy doesn't talk straight.)

I'm not disagreeing, chances Froome (or Wiggo for that matter) is doping are overwhelmingly against them.

The Bilharzia story simply feels unbelievable because of this only.

My apprehension is that sky is using this story to cover up for any red-blood cell count variations in the off season.

I don't think he didn't have Bilharzia, quite simply because it will show up somewhere along the line. Just like LA really had cancer.

About the synptoms... it's really the clinic going wild here. There are villages swept with the disease. It's a bad disease, but symptoms can differ in person to person.

Keep in mind his Bilharzia is commonly detected by blood tests. This indicates that it can be (and is) detected before the horrible symptoms kick in. And this is exactly how alledgedly Froome's Bilharzia in 2011 was detected.

My take is the guy got Bilharzia, but that it's not as important as people on both sides of the divide make it out to be. He certainly didn't have it when he was becoming a pro (no way you can become a pro with Bilharzia active). On the other hand it's also not the horrific insta-gib disease people here think it is.

And yeah, I'm banking heavily on the "he's a doper" side. But I prefer to stick with things which are verifiable... that's really damning enough. Wild theories are interesting, but to build a case around it is opening yourself up for "crackpot" angles.

 

[Ripper]

-2ND TT in the vuelta 2011 (Behind T Martin)
-2ND TT TDF 2012
-3rd TT OS 2012

Considering those results it's not exactly earthshattering he finished second in the first TT in the TdF. The problem is that even though he's an extremely good TT specialist... he's by far the best climber. That's really worrying.



I'm not disagreeing, chances Froome (or Wiggo for that matter) is doping are overwhelmingly against them.



I don't think he didn't have Bilharzia, quite simply because it will show up somewhere along the line. Just like LA really had cancer.

About the synptoms... it's really the clinic going wild here. There are villages swept with the disease. It's a bad disease, but symptoms can differ in person to person.

Keep in mind his Bilharzia is commonly detected by blood tests. This indicates that it can be (and is) detected before the horrible symptoms kick in. And this is exactly how alledgedly Froome's Bilharzia in 2011 was detected.

My take is the guy got Bilharzia, but that it's not as important as people on both sides of the divide make it out to be. He certainly didn't have it when he was becoming a pro (no way you can become a pro with Bilharzia active). On the other hand it's also not the horrific insta-gib disease people here think it is.

And yeah, I'm banking heavily on the "he's a doper" side. But I prefer to stick with things which are verifiable... that's really damning enough. Wild theories are interesting, but to build a case around it is opening yourself up for "crackpot" angles.

You should checkout some of the crackpots posting underneath the CN stories. Already the historical revision is occurring, as in "Froome had Bilharzia from a very young age" BS.

It's all a transfroomation.

 

[Franklin]

All of that sounds so bad, crippling, lethal. I would expect somebody with advanced bilharzia to be permanently bedridden, and I would be shocked if they could even ride a bike, let alone dominate the pro peloton.

As I said, these symptoms are late stages. Early detection is common. And yeah, getting infected is also still pretty common. 243 million people needed treatment in 2011. Repeated treatments are also common and don't require someone to have active parasites. The possibility of him having Bilharzia don't seem extremely remote.

Do I believe he was riding around with active Bilharzia for his early years? Hell no. But the infection itself might very well be legitimate.

By focussing on the Bilharzia angle we are going into conspiracy theory territory. Why go into that angle when there is more than enough to warrant health suspicion?

 

[Franklin]

What you are actually saying is because science just doesnt know what is humanly possible you just dont know if somenone is doping, and thus everyone is innocent untill proven guilty?

I can live with that.

However this has the implicit falacy that we are not a court of law. What Andy seems to continuously ignore is that wattages are indeed an indicator. By focussing on "we really can't tell" he dismsses the cold hard fact that these numbers might be possible... but usually are indeed bad news.

This hammering on one side of the equation does make Andy come out as staunch defender of suspect riders. And as certainly usually the rider in question is caught it looks like Andy is usually wrong.

I understand his position, but really, he should realize that the way he presents thing is an invitation of harsh criticism. It's one thing to argue I could have 10 royal flushes in a row. It's another thing not to mention that this is extremely rare and my coat should be checked for extra cards.

 

[Mr.38%]

Where did you find that quote?

Seems like Hunter is doing some serious trolling.

Does he actually think no one else uses a power meter properly?

It's been posted here one or two days ago as a copy over from the wattage group. Superior Training methods, marginal gains, yadda yadda. Same sh|t different a$$hole.

http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/55212114808/wattage-froome-is-clean-get-over-it-people

 

[blackcat]

is it normal for riders to be on the phone often during the race or they just edit it in when froome is calling?

usually the hog passes on the message from the radios

 

[blackcat]

If we're talking like someone else has a chance as the GC winner, Froome would have to lose the lead by quite a bit (3 minutes maybe?) before the TT. When Froome goes alien during the TT for the 10th time this race, he won't/can't make enough time back.

That's all pie in the sky talk. He's invincible. Like he was since the time Johann Brailsford discovered him doing 10-20th at a TT.

Oh, and Ripper's post above is right.

yeah, i'm right with you. if ever there was a race you could win with only 7 including a hairline fracture of the hip, this is it.

but someone needs to ask the question of the gutless brad wiggins. you werent given a knighthood cos you were gutless. man up, play the team game, and pay froome back.

 

[murali]

-2ND TT in the vuelta 2011 (Behind T Martin)
-2ND TT TDF 2012
-3rd TT OS 2012

Considering those results it's not exactly earthshattering he finished second in the first TT in the TdF. The problem is that even though he's an extremely good TT specialist... he's by far the best climber. That's really worrying.

I was only checking for results before he magically appeared on the scene and start performing consistently. All the top athletes who came and conquered were genuine prodigies. Froome magically started performing well after mid-2011. Sky's own propaganda had quoted him as a magical find.

My take is the guy got Bilharzia, but that it's not as important as people on both sides of the divide make it out to be. He certainly didn't have it when he was becoming a pro (no way you can become a pro with Bilharzia active). On the other hand it's also not the horrific insta-gib disease people here think it is.

I was more worried about the bilharzia story because i was thinking that they are using it as a cover up against likely blood doping. He seems to have the disease exactly during the season breaks and then gets cured the moment he starts racing.

As far as my stance on Froome is concerned, he reminds me of LA(TT and climbing). At least with LA, i knew it and don't care abt it. With all the sound bites from DB and Froome, I am not sure whether I should trust him or not. I somehow get that strange feeling that I am going to be ripped.

 

[murali]

This pretty much sums it up. At that point one has to calculate - kill myself now or gamble a bit and then kill myself for the MTF ...

Tactical mistake. I got the point.

If Froome had gone into red in that windy flat stage, then that might just be his natural level. You can never plan for stages like tht. It felt as if Froome and his teammates hadn't 'planned' for such a contingency.

 

[blackcat]

I have banned two members for continued personal attacks in this thread. I'd prefer people just stopped doing it, I really don't like banning people. Thanks.

as long as you have not banned benotti and chewie and brodeal i got your back.

 

[minessa]

Merckx and Hinault had no problem buddying up with Pharmstrong.

They only move away when someone's guilty ... throw 'em under the bus mentality.

antoine vayer ‏@festinaboy
I was attacked by Hinault at the entrance "village depart" he pulled my badge and said " what are ****ing do here". Camora again.

 

[blackcat]

Where did you find that quote?

Seems like Hunter is doing some serious trolling.

Does he actually think no one else uses a power meter properly?

well, he is not called the angriest man in the peloton for nuffin.

in Tour of California on one of the climbs Robbie Hunter got in a tiff with Popovich. And Popo was a golden gloves champion in school. that would be a fist fight i would pay to see. no julich and blijlevens handbags at 10 paces.

oh, hunter alan. the speedos crowd can get screwed.

spencer smith>alan hunter

 

[orbeas]

Froome

Froome looked like a person who had just realized that he will not win the tour after yesterdays stage, no team left and everyone else full of 'beans'.
Also his girlfriends twitter has gone silent which means all is not well in 'Team Froome' !!!

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Cycling is sooooooo healthy:

Biafra racing.