Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re:

Ok then... Mr. 7k post man has yelled "NOPE!!!!" 'cross the land without further explanation.
I must yield.

1+ ... Hope you still stand tall, and don´t let it happen to be the next poster mobbed away...

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Ok then... Mr. 7k post man has yelled "NOPE!!!!" 'cross the land without further explanation.
I must yield.

He has 7k posts yes (a very small number compared to me of course) but don't you have more

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

Ok then... Mr. 7k post man has yelled "NOPE!!!!" 'cross the land without further explanation.
I must yield.

He has 7k posts yes (a very small number compared to me of course) but don't you have more

Yeah I missed it. Sounded quite different. My bad.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

About the TT position, Froome's position being aero, does not exclude Contador's from being aero too.
Nothing wrong with this TT position

Alberto Staring At Stem Shocker!

Evidence of other teams using marginal gains

 

[armchairclimber]

Interesting stuff. It's so easy to be distracted by upper body movement....shame this discussion is in here because it would be of interest to non-clinic regulars. Watching that vuelta clip, waist down, Contador appears to waste a lot of energy laterally. In places the bike is almost squirming beneath him. I had always thought of his "dancing on the pedals" style to be pretty....and obviously effective. Waist down, the Dawg looks very smooth indeed.

 

[Gregga]

Don't know if it's been discussed before, Antoine Vayer says he's got the SRM datas of Froome's attack on Ventoux and it's quite weird
https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/618171008038608901

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Don't know if it's been discussed before, Antoine Vayer says he's got the SRM datas of Froome's attack on Ventoux and it's quite weird
https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/618171008038608901

Basically doing 400W @ 156bpm.
Accelerates to 120rpm for 1000W and his HR leaps up all the way to ... 161bpm.

 

[harryh]

Don't know if it's been discussed before, Antoine Vayer says he's got the SRM datas of Froome's attack on Ventoux and it's quite weird
https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/618171008038608901

Of course he hasn't got the data, he's just getting so desperate and frustrated that he's no more just making wild guesses but even making up the numbers.

 

[sniper]

Don't know if it's been discussed before, Antoine Vayer says he's got the SRM datas of Froome's attack on Ventoux and it's quite weird
https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/618171008038608901

Basically doing 400W @ 156bpm.
Accelerates to 120rpm for 1000W and his HR leaps up all the way to ... 161bpm.

small motor kicking in?

 

[meat puppet]

Are the time scales (x axis I presume) in sync? Assuming that they are, we have the 1000w+ attack yielding 32-ish speed and then the speed is more or less maintained at decreasing power ending up with 400w or less. This I find puzzling. Does the gradient shallow out dramatically, or what? Moreover, what is the time scale supposed to be anyway?

Froome has a lowish heart rate naturally, also had a sub 150bpm avg in the 2011 vuelta tt if my memory is not totally effed.

 

[Supimilian]

Re:

Are the time scales (x axis I presume) in sync? Assuming that they are, we have the 1000w+ attack yielding 32-ish speed and then the speed is more or less maintained at decreasing power ending up with 400w or less. This I find puzzling. Does the gradient shallow out dramatically, or what? Moreover, what is the time scale supposed to be anyway?

Froome has a lowish heart rate naturally, also had a sub 150bpm avg in the 2011 vuelta tt if my memory is not totally effed.

Doesn't seem to mark the time intervals at all on the axis
The watts dropping as steeply as they do with that maintained speed makes little sense over anything but a very very small period of time, which then makes the time of the huge spike in power a tiny interval.
Looks fake when considering the heart rate as well. The fact that the highest value is before the attack.

 

[meat puppet]

on the other hand, the heart rate usually tends to lag a bit. and focusing on the period after the initial attack & power spike the graphs show a gradual HR build up and then plateau. so I guess we are not talking about seconds here, and my guess would be at least one minute. might be wrong, of course.

Then again, as you point out, it is quite puzzling that overall the HR has a peak value before the attack.

here's the attack, anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52xv2Hg2fkI

that said, to me calling the graphs fake just like that appears rather bold.

 

[burning]

Well, I think that graph misses the second acceleration when he caught Quintana. I also think that these graphs are fake.

Edit: I thought these graphs cover whole climb, looks like they are from that alien attack.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

on the other hand, the heart rate usually tends to lag a bit. and focusing on the period after the initial attack & power spike the graphs show a gradual HR build up and then plateau. so I guess we are not talking about seconds here, and my guess would be at least one minute. might be wrong, of course.

Then again, as you point out, it is quite puzzling that overall the HR has a peak value before the attack.

here's the attack, anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52xv2Hg2fkI

that said, to me calling the graphs fake just like that appears rather bold.

The tweet specifically says, "Froome's file Ventoux 2013 at Chalet Reynard "acceleration" ". ie just the attack, with a bit before and after.

That attack is only about 30 seconds or so. Inertia will keep the speed high but it is tapering off immediately, and the road may also have flattened out a bit.

If you can maintain 400W then sprint up to 1000W seated then go back to 400W, IMO you are cruising that 400W.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Then again, as you point out, it is quite puzzling that overall the HR has a peak value before the attack.

according to the L'Equipe article on motors, the motor activation system is connected to the power meters.
there was some real speculation about that in relation to Sky by an (ex)pro. can look it up.
also, you see froome clicking his steering wheel immediately before the attack.
Could be a gear change, but from looking it looks he only changes his cadence, not his gear.
i know i'm all over the place speculating.
But let's face it: we've never seen froome 'accellerate' like that before OR after Mont Ventoux 2013.

 

[Supimilian]

Re:

Well, I think that graph misses the second acceleration when he caught Quintana. I also think that these graphs are fake.

Edit: I thought these graphs cover whole climb, looks like they are from that alien attack.

The second attack (on Quintana) is about 1:50-2:00 after the first one, and indeed does not match anything on the graph. That makes the time scale look very strange for the first attack.

If you can maintain 400W then sprint up to 1000W seated then go back to 400W, IMO you are cruising that 400W.

Sounds like a bit of a stretch to almost maintain the speed at that gradient when dropping it back down that much and that fast. According to the graph the speed is peaking when he has dropped all the way back to around 350W. That's not an effort to maintain +30kph on a ++5% slope.

 

[Walkman]

Don't know if it's been discussed before, Antoine Vayer says he's got the SRM datas of Froome's attack on Ventoux and it's quite weird
https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/618171008038608901

Basically doing 400W @ 156bpm.
Accelerates to 120rpm for 1000W and his HR leaps up all the way to ... 161bpm.

small motor kicking in?

Must have been quite the engine since his heartbeat hardly moves give the fact that the power output increased by 600 watts. Not sure I believe those graphs. Also, didn't they x-rays bikes for motors in 2013?

 

[sniper]

...
Must have been quite the engine since his heartbeat hardly moves give the fact that the power output increased by 600 watts. Not sure I believe those graphs. Also, didn't they x-rays bikes for motors in 2013?

not sure i believe the footage.
seems froome can't keep up with his cranks.
have never seen him accellerate like that before or after 2013 mont ventoux.
always out of the saddle.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

He pretty much rode like that all the way up the Mur de Huy yeah? Spinning up it. No accelerating, but still nutso. Armstrong 2.0.

 

[Walkman]

...
Must have been quite the engine since his heartbeat hardly moves give the fact that the power output increased by 600 watts. Not sure I believe those graphs. Also, didn't they x-rays bikes for motors in 2013?

not sure i believe the footage.
seems froome can't keep up with his cranks.
have never seen him accellerate like that before or after 2013 mont ventoux.
always out of the saddle.

Indeed, it's a bit weird. But he did some pretty powerful seated accelerations in the Dauphine last year. Granted, his monster attack was out of the saddle though.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re:

Are the time scales (x axis I presume) in sync? Assuming that they are, we have the 1000w+ attack yielding 32-ish speed and then the speed is more or less maintained at decreasing power ending up with 400w or less. This I find puzzling. Does the gradient shallow out dramatically, or what? Moreover, what is the time scale supposed to be anyway?

Froome has a lowish heart rate naturally, also had a sub 150bpm avg in the 2011 vuelta tt if my memory is not totally effed.

147 average
169 Maximum
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/athlete/workout/Z3JDD63H2UVGP77YSXNITPULAE

 

[SkyTears]

lol, this is becoming increasingly ridiculous
some guy makes up some graphs (he said he received them from a good samaritean) and voila

i see just salty people

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re:

Interesting stuff. It's so easy to be distracted by upper body movement....shame this discussion is in here because it would be of interest to non-clinic regulars. Watching that vuelta clip, waist down, Contador appears to waste a lot of energy laterally. In places the bike is almost squirming beneath him. I had always thought of his "dancing on the pedals" style to be pretty....and obviously effective. Waist down, the Dawg looks very smooth indeed.

Agree. Sometimes thought what the heck is AC doing (starting with his "battles" with AS). Attacking, waiting, riding backwards, attacking again, waiting, go left right... Lots of energy wasted.
Froome otoh (pretty or not) just (tries to) ride away, straight forward, no wasting by going left right, or throwing the bike from one side to the other...

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

lol, this is becoming increasingly ridiculous
some guy makes up some graphs (he said he received them from a good samaritean) and voila

i see just salty people

Do you have any evidence he made them up?

I'd take Vayers word over yours, no offence.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

lol, this is becoming increasingly ridiculous
some guy makes up some graphs (he said he received them from a good samaritean) and voila

i see just salty people

Do you have any evidence he made them up?

I'd take Vayers word over yours, no offence.

The graphs show a power output increase of 600 watts, or equivalently, an increase of 150% and his heart rate increase by 5 strokes per minute. That has got to be one hell of a motor to generate that kind of power. And we know they did x-ray/weigh bikes in 2013 so I'd say it's pretty accurate to say those graphs are made up.

Unless Froome did have a motor and his bike was not controlled. Gutsy move to win a mountain top finish with a motor when you know the debate has been raging for quite some time..