Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[sjonnie]

The most interesting part about Froome is the insanely low heart rate at threshold and of course the fact that the his heart rate doesnt increase with an attack.

- Cardiac ouput follows oxygen consumption very closely during exercise.

Therefore, what the hell is going on with his cardiac output at maximal efforts?
Its as if he never reaches VO2 max while pedalling. The lack of a rise in HR while power increases also points to an increadible anaerobic threshold. So what can make that sort of thing happen?

Apparently Froome has a MHR of 170. This is consistent with his rides up the Ventoux and Puerto de San Lorenzo where you see him pushing hard with a heart rate of 152-160 equivalent to 90-95% MHR. Other top cyclists have also reported having a relatively low MHR. You're right that cardiac output does follow oxygen consumption, but oxygen consumption doesn't equal power output over a short term attack. What you see is his heart rate increasing after the attack, which is what you'd expect from an anaerobic effort to product 600+W. The fact that he can manage and sustain 90-95% MHR after such an exertion is, like you say, indicative of a very high lactate threshold. As to what makes that happen, training combined with a decent physiology.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Dan Martin said he had a bad day yesterday. Which is normal in cycling. Dopers, clean riders, all have historically been liable to bad days.

So why does Froome never have a bad day. Or 2012 Wiggins for that matter too?

Froome has bad days. For instance he once was so pre-occupied with the thought of killing bunnies while riding Alpe d'Huez he forgot to eat.

I also saw him suck to high heavens at US Pro Challenge a few weeks after he destroyed the Tour.

He just couldn't be bothered at US Pro Challenge.

 

[acinpdx]

Re: Re:

Half the peloton (hyperbole, but a LOT) have an asthma diagnosis and associated TUE's.

(Not directed at you specifically, just finding a place to ask the question)

Is there a list of how many riders in this year's TdF have TUE's?

 

[Benotti69]

dogs&cycling ‏@dogsandcycling 13 minutes ago

Froome: "I’m open-minded to potentially doing some physiological testing at some point after Tour or at whatever point suits" =not happening

open-minded to potentially is not a commitment. So Armstrongesque with his Don Caitlin smokescreen...

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re: Re:

Half the peloton (hyperbole, but a LOT) have an asthma diagnosis and associated TUE's.

(Not directed at you specifically, just finding a place to ask the question)

Is there a list of how many riders in this year's TdF have TUE's?

No. To do so breaches EU medical privacy laws.
You may be able to get a number in total, but I doubt even that.

 

[acinpdx]

Re: Re:

Half the peloton (hyperbole, but a LOT) have an asthma diagnosis and associated TUE's.

(Not directed at you specifically, just finding a place to ask the question)

Is there a list of how many riders in this year's TdF have TUE's?

No. To do so breaches EU medical privacy laws.
You may be able to get a number in total, but I doubt even that.

Seems like something that should be part of the passport?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Any TUE is part of the record in ADAMS.
(At least whilst is is active, I ma not sure if there is historical data on them there)


That is the first place an anti-doping organisation checks any adverse analytical finding, to see if there is a valid and current TUE for the substance,

 

[Benotti69]

Ross Tucker interview on Ireland's 'Off the Ball' sport radio program

https://soundcloud.com/offtheball/ross-tucker-on-chris-fromme

David Walsh was 'otherwise engaged' to appear.

 

[BYOP88]

Re:

Ross Tucker interview on Ireland's 'Off the Ball' sport radio program

https://soundcloud.com/offtheball/ross-tucker-on-chris-fromme

David Walsh was 'otherwise engaged' to appear.

Who do you think makes the smoothies for the team? They don't make themselves.

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

Dan Martin said he had a bad day yesterday. Which is normal in cycling. Dopers, clean riders, all have historically been liable to bad days.

So why does Froome never have a bad day. Or 2012 Wiggins for that matter too?

Froome has bad days. For instance he once was so pre-occupied with the thought of killing bunnies while riding Alpe d'Huez he forgot to eat.

I also saw him suck to high heavens at US Pro Challenge a few weeks after he destroyed the Tour.

Kelly spotted him having a bad 15 seconds yesterday and had us all worried. I couldn't take the tension.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Ross Tucker interview on Ireland's 'Off the Ball' sport radio program

https://soundcloud.com/offtheball/ross-tucker-on-chris-fromme

David Walsh was 'otherwise engaged' to appear.

Who do you think makes the smoothies for the team? They don't make themselves.

Not Walsh, too busy on twitter doing his Sky PR gig.

 

[doperhopper]

Re:

dogs&cycling ‏@dogsandcycling 13 minutes ago

Froome: "I’m open-minded to potentially doing some physiological testing at some point after Tour or at whatever point suits" =not happening

open-minded to potentially is not a commitment. So Armstrongesque with his Don Caitlin smokescreen...

=> Vroom is POTENTIALLY clean. Q.E.D.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Ross Tucker interview on Ireland's 'Off the Ball' sport radio program

https://soundcloud.com/offtheball/ross-tucker-on-chris-fromme

David Walsh was 'otherwise engaged' to appear.

At the end of the interview Ger Gilroy mentions Walsh not available at same time as Ross Tucker, but they will try and get him on to give his(sky's) side of the argument that they are clean.

Will post that here and Walsh thread, IF, it happens. Ger Gilroy is well up on his cycling having interviewed Walsh, Nico Roche, Dan Martin, Kimmage and McQuaid plenty of times.

 

[danielovichdk2]

It just came in from NASA. New Horizons found Froome's childhood home.

 

[perico]

Re:

Yes, without badzilla even the least clever of fans would be hard pressed to make sense of the transformation. But even though the badzilla story doesn't hold up to scrutiny, that additional layer of complexity is all that's needed for the fans in the Daily Mail comments section to be utterly convinced he is clean and the reason behind his success being Brailsford, who demolished first the track and is now applying the same recipe of success to demolish the road with a gifted rider like the Dawg.

So much deja-vu. The Brit public seems as defensive as the Americans did during Armstrong's heyday. It's amazing actually.

 

[buckle]

Re:

Ross Tucker interview on Ireland's 'Off the Ball' sport radio program

https://soundcloud.com/offtheball/ross-tucker-on-chris-fromme

David Walsh was 'otherwise engaged' to appear.

What struck me was the quality of the interviewer. He was outstanding. The second was Tucker himself and his conclusions. He was non-committal but more or less saying that in context, with all things considered, Froome, for all intents and purposes and for the benefit of all stakeholders, is in in fact really an effing alien.

 

[The Death Merchant]

Re: Re:

Ross Tucker interview on Ireland's 'Off the Ball' sport radio program

https://soundcloud.com/offtheball/ross-tucker-on-chris-fromme

David Walsh was 'otherwise engaged' to appear.

What struck me was the quality of the interviewer. He was outstanding. The second was Tucker himself and his conclusions. He was non-committal but more or less saying that in context, with all things considered, Froome, for all intents and purposes and for the benefit of all stakeholders, is in in fact really an effing alien.

Wouldn't it be great if the rest of the media was as critical as Off The Ball, especially the cycling media. It isn't hard, but the media doesn't even try. There are no journalists working anymore, just stenographers and idolizing fans.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Ross Tucker interview on Ireland's 'Off the Ball' sport radio program

https://soundcloud.com/offtheball/ross-tucker-on-chris-fromme

David Walsh was 'otherwise engaged' to appear.

What struck me was the quality of the interviewer. He was outstanding. The second was Tucker himself and his conclusions. He was non-committal but more or less saying that in context, with all things considered, Froome, for all intents and purposes and for the benefit of all stakeholders, is in in fact really an effing alien.

Wouldn't it be great if the rest of the media was as critical as Off The Ball, especially the cycling media. It isn't hard, but the media doesn't even try. There are no journalists working anymore, just stenographers and idolizing fans.

Off the ball are good on cycling, but not so good on doping in other sports. Rugby for example is very popular in Ireland and while they did interview Kimmage about it, they have not followed it up. Hopefully when more doping in other sports is exposed they will give the time they give to doping in cycling.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re: Re:

[quote="Alpe d'Huez"][quote="46&twoWheels
You're taking for granted that every rider starts with the same set of abilities and physiological limits. It's not true. We are not all equal.The task would be to uncover what makes Froome un-equal. It could be doping it could be natural as well[/quote]
Here's why I don't buy that. Froome was a UCI-Continental racer with only a modicum of results until the age of about 25. Within two years he was on the cusp of winning the Tour, and now is destroying everyone. All of this happened once he came to Sky.

Riders with natural talent don't do this. They are guys like Merckx, LeMond or Fignon, where from early on you knew they'd be great, and some days they'd crush the competition. I can't think of a single natural (ie. clean) rider in history who has done what Froome has. Can anyone else? I'd like to know.[/quote]

------------------------------------------------

No one can, no rider, no billards player, no Baseball player, no Football player, no 100 meter runner coming from 200 can, no deep sea fisher can, no whatever can...

Froome is a doper (even though not as crazy as Horner is). The clinic knows it. People with common sense know it. Brailsford knows it. The PRR guys know it (but can´t admit it). The world knows it...

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Ross Tucker interview on Ireland's 'Off the Ball' sport radio program

https://soundcloud.com/offtheball/ross-tucker-on-chris-fromme

David Walsh was 'otherwise engaged' to appear.

At the end of the interview Ger Gilroy mentions Walsh not available at same time as Ross Tucker, but they will try and get him on to give his(sky's) side of the argument that they are clean.

Will post that here and Walsh thread, IF, it happens. Ger Gilroy is well up on his cycling having interviewed Walsh, Nico Roche, Dan Martin, Kimmage and McQuaid plenty of times.

Like I said back in 2012. No one from Sky will EVER accept a debate with one of the accusers. Which is why Walsh was unavailable for Kimmage and unavailable for Tucker. It all has to come through monlogues to the press where they can control the narrative and avoid counterarguments.

Put Walsh/ Brailsford/ moore/ sloberingham/ millar, any of these idiots in a room with Tucker or Kimmage or anyone from here for 2 minutes and they get blown out of the park.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Yes, without badzilla even the least clever of fans would be hard pressed to make sense of the transformation. But even though the badzilla story doesn't hold up to scrutiny, that additional layer of complexity is all that's needed for the fans in the Daily Mail comments section to be utterly convinced he is clean and the reason behind his success being Brailsford, who demolished first the track and is now applying the same recipe of success to demolish the road with a gifted rider like the Dawg.

So much deja-vu. The Brit public seems as defensive as the Americans did during Armstrong's heyday. It's amazing actually.

I don't think terms like "Brit public" are fair. Though 100% of Sky's believers may be British, a significant % of their doubters are also British. The Brit public, thankfully, doesn't care much for the Tour de France or it wouldn't be relegated to a secondary sports channel (and this is supposed to be the boom for the TDF). Its a small number (in the tens of thousands i would guess) of people but they do not represent the entire country. The doubters don't represent the entire country either. Most are apathetic. Most probably would dismiss the entire sport as doped without a care in the world for whether the winner is British or not.

 

[Saint Unix]

You'd be shocked at how many idiots here in Norway are lapping up the nonsense without a doubt in their mind. The so-called expert commentator on our main broadcaster of the Tour can't seem to shut up about all the fantastic work Sky are doing in sports science. For casual fans of cycling, or endurance sports in general, I fully understand that it's easy to dismiss the doping claims when a guy who has trained Grete Waitz and Ingrid Kristiansen to greatness in long-distance running keeps harping on about how fantastic Sky are and how effective the anti-doping work and the bio passport is. He's supposed to be an authority on the subject, after all, even if he hasn't been relevant or right since the 80's.

The PR work Sky are putting in is convincing the masses, just like USPS did in their day. People are either too lazy, too stupid or just don't care enough about cycling to look under the hood and see what's actually happening.

 

[markene2]

Re:

You'd be shocked at how many idiots here in Norway are lapping up the nonsense without a doubt in their mind. The so-called expert commentator on our main broadcaster of the Tour can't seem to shut up about all the fantastic work Sky are doing in sports science. For casual fans of cycling, or endurance sports in general, I fully understand that it's easy to dismiss the doping claims when a guy who has trained Grete Waitz and Ingrid Kristiansen to greatness in long-distance running keeps harping on about how fantastic Sky are and how effective the anti-doping work and the bio passport is. He's supposed to be an authority on the subject, after all, even if he hasn't been relevant or right since the 80's.

The PR work Sky are putting in is convincing the masses, just like USPS did in their day. People are either too lazy, too stupid or just don't care enough about cycling to look under the hood and see what's actually happening.

Thank you for also noticing, i am getting seriously frustrated at Johan, he has keept this up since the 13 Alp d'huez stage, and now, his constant praise of Thomas, Froome and Porte is sickening, How the "Little Prince from Nairobi, is climbing like a god, how that all the other teams should learn from Brailsford, how all the other teams did not use the rest day to recuperate." And he always includes the backstory from the riders, how Froome was this amazing mountainbiker from Africa that has total bike controll.

FFS, it's the Armstrong era here in Norway again, Bring in Ole Kristian Stoltenberg as a commentator again, was that not why you hired him from Eurosport in the first place? He is the best Norwegian commentator in the cycling buisness IMO. Instead we have this old geezer that has a hardon for Sky, and cant stop talking about them all day. You can even see Paasche and Dag Otto not buying it, but dont really dare to speak up. Except Paasche with a few snide remarks during the race. The only reason i am sticking to TV2 is they got a good covrage pre race, with interviews etc.

 

[Saint Unix]

Kaggestad did his usual history lesson bit today with some British so-and-so apparently being the first person to realize the potential for recreational climbing in the area, and that hundreds of Brits travelled to those mountains to do some rock climbing in their holidays and I was absolutely certain he was going to twist it into a "but there are other Brits doing the climbing here today" line, but he didn't. He's probably kicking himself at the lost opportunity, though.

I remember after Ax-3-Domaines, they did a moderate "Is this too good to be true?" debate just to fill air time. It pretty much ended with Johan going "lolnope Sky are fantastic at everything. They can't be doping." and it's never been mentioned again as far as I can recall. Dag Otto is the same. He loves himself a bit of Sky, but isn't given nearly enough air time to become as sickening as Kaggestad. It's clear as day that they're biased towards Sky, though. Sky might even be getting more mentions, and certainly more positive mentions, than the teams of the two Norwegians in the race, which is absurd for an overly-nationalist country like Norway. I guess Kurt Asle "I-Was-Road-Captain-For-Mr.-60%-for-Years-and-Never-Saw-Anything-Suspicious" Arvesen working for Sky justifies it somehow.

The tiny positive is that I feel like Paasche is catching on. I could hear a hint of hopelessness in his voice after Pierre St. Martin. It might just have been a "how the hell are we going to make this interesting now that it's already over?" kind of hopelessness, but at least he doesn't seem as blinded by Sky as the others.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

You'd be shocked at how many idiots here in Norway are lapping up the nonsense without a doubt in their mind. The so-called expert commentator on our main broadcaster of the Tour can't seem to shut up about all the fantastic work Sky are doing in sports science. For casual fans of cycling, or endurance sports in general, I fully understand that it's easy to dismiss the doping claims when a guy who has trained Grete Waitz and Ingrid Kristiansen to greatness in long-distance running keeps harping on about how fantastic Sky are and how effective the anti-doping work and the bio passport is. He's supposed to be an authority on the subject, after all, even if he hasn't been relevant or right since the 80's.

The PR work Sky are putting in is convincing the masses, just like USPS did in their day. People are either too lazy, too stupid or just don't care enough about cycling to look under the hood and see what's actually happening.

The fact that Sky are actually addressing the questions (not answering them, but aknowledging their existence) by thinking up of new scams each year about how to lie to the public, suggests there is quite a lot of discontent from the cycling public. Lance never had to do that.

I can't speak for Norway, nor do I neccesarily know exactly what the attitudes are in different countries. But we know that in France the overbearing emotion is one of scepticism to Sky. Spain, less so but also quite clearly lots of doubts. Denmark -80% two years ago thought he doped.

Maybe its because Norwegians have their own Sky in the hillarious CX skiers and biathletes. There are some delusional posters that come on here occasionally from that crowd too, - Tore Bear and some of the guys from the Kristoff thread. But I also know Norwegians that doubt.