Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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LaFlorecita said:
Froome's weight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/11653099/Chris-Froome-Im-happy-to-be-drug-tested-we-need-more-of-it.html
Just after that paragraph mentioning Astana and Contador's dodgy past ( :rolleyes: ):
Before Dauphiné:
His weight is also now already at 10st 6lb, down from around 11st 5lb during the winter.
10st 6lb = 66.2kg
With 414 Watts without correction, that puts him in 6.3 watts/kg. And 5.9 watts/kg with the correction. I tell you that that correction seems very high.
 
May 26, 2010
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Adam Marshall ‏@Chasseur_Patate 6 hours ago

One of the most concerning things abut Sky's released data is that it now shows Froome flew up Ventoux at apparently just 80-88% of max HR.

This is crazy if true.....but i doubt Froome's data released today is truthful.
 
Sep 19, 2013
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Re:

Benotti69 said:
Kimmage being interviewed about Froome at 8.30pm(BST) tonight http://www.newstalk.com/
I hope he says it as it is as it's fairly obvious to a lot of people what's going on. Sitting on the it's at the limits of human performance don't wash it. There's too many like that Lemond etc. but anything better than the brown nosed DW is a positive I suppose.
 
Apr 5, 2015
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Escarabajo said:
LaFlorecita said:
Froome's weight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/11653099/Chris-Froome-Im-happy-to-be-drug-tested-we-need-more-of-it.html
Just after that paragraph mentioning Astana and Contador's dodgy past ( :rolleyes: ):
Before Dauphiné:
His weight is also now already at 10st 6lb, down from around 11st 5lb during the winter.
10st 6lb = 66.2kg
With 414 Watts without correction, that puts him in 6.3 watts/kg. And 5.9 watts/kg with the correction. I tell you that that correction seems very high.

Well.. That difference is pretty much the differnce between doped for sure and quite likely not doped.

It would help if he would test his VO2 max.. If it`s 85, he most probably is doped with his w/kg numbers.. If it`s 90, it`s probably plausible. The world record for VO2 max is 97,5 or something by the then 18 year old norwegian cyclist Oscar Svendsen, so I mean, it could help his case for being clean if he just comes out with his lung capacity number. In the Kimmage interview he said something like he tested it in 2007. He had something like 80 or 85 (big difference), and weighed 70kgs at the time.. If it was in fact 85 at the time, and he now weighs 66, i suppose it could very well be aprox 90 now.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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I have one point to make in all of this..

Whatever the numbers are, I think Froome/Sky can be pleased with recent developments..

I've seen the term "PR disaster" to describe this debacle... I disagree...

Why?

Because confusion has taken over.

It seems incomplete information has become center of discussion, and how can any valid interpretation/conclusion be reached from that?

And even if the data released from Sky is real, the problem that we do not have any valid "clean" point of reference persists..

I'd say the PR strategy is working fine (if it is such a thing) because they have the cycling-world arguing numbers and agendas on a basis there can never be agreement...

In any case, I think that it was important from a PR pont of view, not to confirm the pseudoscientists numbers as it could legitimate their conclusions...

Confusion is much better...
Even though it costs some...
 
Jul 21, 2012
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there is no confusion. Anyone that knows even the slightest bit about this stuff will easily be able to call BS.

the only people who will be fooled into thinking this is real are the people who get their cycling knowledge from reading articles in the sunday times or the guardian.
 
Jul 10, 2009
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Re: Re:

the sceptic said:
buckle said:
SeriousSam said:
meat puppet said:
So, summing up:

Froome - 5.79/kg - winner
Gesink - 5.93/kg - lost 1:33
Adam Yates - 5.84/kg - lost 2:04
Ten dam - 5.5/kg - lost 4:25

https://twitter.com/vayerism/status/623474960074416128

Clearly Gesink, Yates and ten dam's powers numbers and/or the laws of physics must be incorrect. Sky's reported number of Froome's power is obviously beyond dispute and has now replaced the speed of light as the most certain universal constant.

In other words Froome couldn't have won the stage with these numbers?

Correct. Seems like Sky just pulled some "clean" looking numbers out of thin air.

Not sure why they would do that, when it's so easy to prove they're lying.

Yes, 10 minutes we can't get back
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
jmdirt said:
Benotti69 said:
jmdirt said:
In this thread, is the assumption that Froome (Sky) is the only one doping in the TdF this year?

this is the 'Froome talk only' thread. Did you not understand that?

There is a Wiggins thread about his magical transformation from Grupetto to Podium

There is the Sky thread for all things sky.

There is now a Geraint thread to discuss his recent transformation.

etc

etc

Sky so giving to the clinic...... :D

Not only do I understand it, I started my post with it.

Should posters ignore the top 'dawg' at the TdF and dicuss what we already know about Contadors doping, Piti or even BMC....they have their own threads. Feel free to engage in debate int he respective threads.

Big difference between Froome and other riders in top 5 or even 10 is no one, i repeat no one, thought he would get near the podium of a GT let alone win 1.

Sorry for my short response, my 15 year old lab was in distress, and once I took care of her it was time for me to get some work done. Lunch break now.

Yes, the thread is Froome only, but he is being compared to LeMond, Armstrong, Pantani of the past, and most of the top 10 or so of this years TdF to imply how dirty he is (so its not really Froome only). So if Gesink is used as the clean(er) comparison in the Froome only thread we should click over to the Gesink thread to talk about it? You make a good point though, he's winning so he gets the most sh*t. If someone else was winning they would get more as well I suppose.

"Big difference between Froome and other riders in top 5 or even 10 is no one, i repeat no one, thought he would get near the podium of a GT let alone win 1."

Sky obviously saw something otherwise they would not have brought him on and groomed him like they have.
 
LaFlorecita said:
Froome's weight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/11653099/Chris-Froome-Im-happy-to-be-drug-tested-we-need-more-of-it.html
Just after that paragraph mentioning Astana and Contador's dodgy past ( :rolleyes: ):
Before Dauphiné:
His weight is also now already at 10st 6lb, down from around 11st 5lb during the winter.
10st 6lb = 66.2kg

Already...implying of course he lost more before the Tour, which makes sense as he's previously said on the record 64-65 kg.

Funny how that weight and the actual adjustments for the cranks put him well into the alien zone...exactly what's obvious from simply watching the performance and seeing the times.
 
Pulp said:
Escarabajo said:
LaFlorecita said:
Froome's weight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/11653099/Chris-Froome-Im-happy-to-be-drug-tested-we-need-more-of-it.html
Just after that paragraph mentioning Astana and Contador's dodgy past ( :rolleyes: ):
Before Dauphiné:
His weight is also now already at 10st 6lb, down from around 11st 5lb during the winter.
10st 6lb = 66.2kg
With 414 Watts without correction, that puts him in 6.3 watts/kg. And 5.9 watts/kg with the correction. I tell you that that correction seems very high.

Well.. That difference is pretty much the differnce between doped for sure and quite likely not doped.

It would help if he would test his VO2 max.. If it`s 85, he most probably is doped with his w/kg numbers.. If it`s 90, it`s probably plausible. The world record for VO2 max is 97,5 or something by the then 18 year old norwegian cyclist Oscar Svendsen, so I mean, it could help his case for being clean if he just comes out with his lung capacity number. In the Kimmage interview he said something like he tested it in 2007. He had something like 80 or 85 (big difference), and weighed 70kgs at the time.. If it was in fact 85 at the time, and he now weighs 66, i suppose it could very well be aprox 90 now.

I wonder how many confirmed, doped performances fall into the sub-6.0 range. 80%-90%?
 
Oct 16, 2009
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Re: Re:

SeriousSam said:
meat puppet said:
So, summing up:

Froome - 5.79/kg - winner
Gesink - 5.93/kg - lost 1:33
Adam Yates - 5.84/kg - lost 2:04
Ten dam - 5.5/kg - lost 4:25

https://twitter.com/vayerism/status/623474960074416128

Clearly Gesink, Yates and ten dam's powers numbers and/or the laws of physics must be incorrect. Sky's reported number of Froome's power is obviously beyond dispute and has now replaced the speed of light as the most certain universal constant.
Nah, it's just Froome using that hyper efficient, ultra high cadence pedaling style. Everyone else is sticking to the 70-100 range like the amateurs they are.
 
Re: Re:

jmdirt said:
So if Gesink is used as the clean(er) comparison in the Froome only thread we should click over to the Gesink thread to talk about it?
Gesink is not being put forward as a clean or even as a cleaner comparison. He's being mentioned because he published his data before Froome, so it's an obvious point of reference. Doped or not, Gesink produced more watts/kg than what Sky claims Froome produced, which obviously doesn't add up. Whether or not Gesink is clean is irrelevant.
 
Re: Re:

hrotha said:
jmdirt said:
So if Gesink is used as the clean(er) comparison in the Froome only thread we should click over to the Gesink thread to talk about it?
Gesink is not being put forward as a clean or even as a cleaner comparison. He's being mentioned because he published his data before Froome, so it's an obvious point of reference. Doped or not, Gesink produced more watts than what Sky claims Froome produced, which obviously doesn't add up. Whether or not Gesink is clean is irrelevant.

More watts per kilogram...right?
 
Re: Re:

hrotha said:
jmdirt said:
So if Gesink is used as the clean(er) comparison in the Froome only thread we should click over to the Gesink thread to talk about it?
Gesink is not being put forward as a clean or even as a cleaner comparison. He's being mentioned because he published his data before Froome, so it's an obvious point of reference. Doped or not, Gesink produced more watts than what Sky claims Froome produced, which obviously doesn't add up. Whether or not Gesink is clean is irrelevant.

Gesink did a very good impersonation of a tired athlete on the climb.
 
Re: Re:

red_flanders said:
hrotha said:
Gesink is not being put forward as a clean or even as a cleaner comparison. He's being mentioned because he published his data before Froome, so it's an obvious point of reference. Doped or not, Gesink produced more watts than what Sky claims Froome produced, which obviously doesn't add up. Whether or not Gesink is clean is irrelevant.

More watts per kilogram...right?
Herp derp. Edited. :eek:
 
Basically Sky admitted Froome is putting out performances only achievable through doping. It is the only possible explanation for the shameless lies told today. Froome must be now under 66kg, the weight declared by him in June. Sky says he has 67.5. His power /kg declared by Sky is lower than for guys who showed actual data and finished minutes down. Why didn't they say, yes Froome put out 6.2 W/kg for 45 minutes. He is an exceptional athlete, the best mankind
has produced, deal with it. Because they know this is not the case. Dawg is a lab rat, a succesful experiment achieved with help from sky's undetectable pharmaceuticals.
 
Re: Re:

hrotha said:
jmdirt said:
So if Gesink is used as the clean(er) comparison in the Froome only thread we should click over to the Gesink thread to talk about it?
Gesink is not being put forward as a clean or even as a cleaner comparison. He's being mentioned because he published his data before Froome, so it's an obvious point of reference. Doped or not, Gesink produced more watts/kg than what Sky claims Froome produced, which obviously doesn't add up. Whether or not Gesink is clean is irrelevant.

You missed my point. Ben69 scolded me, and told me to talk about other riders on their respective threads.

But to your point, how do we know if Gesink's numbers are even close to 'accurate'? How can they be a 'point of reference'? Several posts DID put his numbers up as clean(er). Maybe Gesink is dirtier than Froome.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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lol jesus christ. Gesink being dirtier than Froome still doesn't explain why he was dropped like a *** stone yet somehow ended up with a better power to weight ratio.
 
If you assume Gesink’s value is correct, and calculate for Yates and ten Dam based on the time difference, you get values very close to the ones they actually published (5.85 and 5.56, respectively). If you then calculate Froome’s value based on Gesink’s and the time difference, you get 6.15 W/kg, very close to the value one gets using Sky’s uncorrected 414 W and 67 kg (6.18 W/kg).

With regard to the argument that Gesink rode more in the wind than Froome: As far as I can tell from the stage description, Gesink attacked with about 11 km to go, and Froome attacked with about 7 km to go. So Gesink was alone for about 4 km more than Froome, though this may be an overestimate, because at some point after attacking, I believe Gesink was with TVG. Riding unprotected at this speed adds about 8-9%, or 30-35 W, to the energy requirement. However, even a rider who is protected experiences some drag, about 60% of that unprotected. So the extra energy Gesink put out is about (4/15) x (30-35) x .6 = 5 – 5.5 watts. This is about 0. 0.07 - 0.08 W/kg. If we factor that into his power reading, and re-calculate Froome’s power based on time difference, we get 6.07 – 6.08 W/kg. This is about the value one would get using the 414 W, a weight for Froome of a little over 66 kg (see Flor's post above), and a 3% oval ring correction.

This is a very rough calculation, but I think it demonstrates that most of the difference between Froome and Gesink can’t be accounted for by greater drag. When you add in the close agreement of Gesink's values with those of Yates and ten Dam, this becomes even clearer. We really don't know the correction factor, if any, for oval rings, but depending on Froome's actual weight, it could be several %. As I said before, I don't think one can assume a 6% correction as a blanket statement, applying to all riders.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Rollthedice said:
Basically Sky admitted Froome is putting out performances only achievable through doping. It is the only possible explanation for the shameless lies told today. Froome must be now under 66kg, the weight declared by him in June. Sky says he has 67.5. His power /kg declared by Sky is lower than for guys who showed actual data and finished minutes down. Why didn't they say, yes Froome put out 6.2 W/kg for 45 minutes. He is an exceptional athlete, the best mankind
has produced, deal with it. Because they know this is not the case. Dawg is a lab rat, a succesful experiment achieved with help from sky's undetectable pharmaceuticals.
This is why:

http://www.skysports.com/cycling/news/20192/7452102/froome-trainingpeaks-analysis

Froome averaged 5.8w/kg at 406W for nearly an hour! He paced the event to perfection as the first half had a total altitude gain of 219m and he averaged 414w, versus the second half where the course had a total elevation gain of only 86m and he averaged 398w. There were certainly riders who started the time trial too hard and suffered in the final 20km where Froome ended up gaining ground.
They are consistent those data benders.

No oval chainrings there to f*uck up the numbers?

All is in the weight, wouldnt surprise me if he is 64/63 Kg.