Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Speaking as someone with a bone marrow condition. A random blood test would pick up on a low red cell count. My first test picked up a high platelet count and a rare 1 in 150k condition was diagnosed within 5 days under the National Health Service (ok they went for the bone marrow to do that but impressive nevertheless). This bilharzia story seems a load of bull hooey.
 
Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
samhocking said:
What are Sky doing? Well, no-one really knows. What we do know is they have managed to transform two extremely talented track riders into very good GT riders/domestiques (Thomas and Wiggins) which I still think should be possible clean (I'm not saying either are here). They have also taken a reasonably talented domestique (as in, could ride pro tour rather than pro conti talented) and turned him into a world beater at a late age with very little indication this would be possible.
You keep trying to defend Wiggins by being deceptive about his on road acheivements. His numbers when he won the Tour were in Lance range. He won Paris Nice, Romandie and Dauphine in the same season, something I remember sky fans being extremely giddy about back then because no one had ever done it. He also then won the Tour de France. He didn't have a single bad day and beat or matched his rivals on every stage. He then won the olympics. His VAM on Verbier in 09 when he was coming off the Giro like Contador is now, is up there with the best of all time from EPO era. He beat Vincenzo Nibali in the climbs in 2 consecutive grand tours they faced eachother.

He went through an entire season without having a bad day. Look at the Tour now. Riders constantly having bad days, losing and gaining form throughout the Tour, people like nibali struggling to even get on form. Look at TJVG struggling cos he peaked too early for the Dauphine. Compare that to wiggins having unbeatable peak form for 6 months. Compare that to Wiggins beating tony Martin in the time trial of Dauphine in June by quite some margin, while also controlling everything on the climbs, and then going on and being just as good in the Tour. You have to be joking to call that a "very good" gt rider. He beat Nibali by 6 minutes at the end.

He was a god level gt rider. he was a far better gt rider than track cyclist, considering he destroyed the entire talent pool in road cycling for an entire year. Compare that pool to the pool in team pursuit.
 
Jul 20, 2015
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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
King Boonen said:
samhocking said:
What are Sky doing? Well, no-one really knows. What we do know is they have managed to transform two extremely talented track riders into very good GT riders/domestiques (Thomas and Wiggins) which I still think should be possible clean (I'm not saying either are here). They have also taken a reasonably talented domestique (as in, could ride pro tour rather than pro conti talented) and turned him into a world beater at a late age with very little indication this would be possible.
You keep trying to defend Wiggins by being deceptive about his on road acheivements. His numbers when he won the Tour were in Lance range. He won Paris Nice, Romandie and Dauphine in the same season, something I remember sky fans being extremely giddy about back then because no one had ever done it. He also then won the Tour de France. He didn't have a single bad day and beat or matched his rivals on every stage. He then won the olympics. His VAM on Verbier in 09 when he was coming off the Giro like Contador is now, is up there with the best of all time from EPO era. He beat Vincenzo Nibali in the climbs in 2 consecutive grand tours they faced eachother.

He went through an entire season without having a bad day. Look at the Tour now. Riders constantly having bad days, losing and gaining form throughout the Tour, people like nibali struggling to even get on form. Look at TJVG struggling cos he peaked too early for the Dauphine. Compare that to wiggins having unbeatable peak form for 6 months. Compare that to Wiggins beating tony Martin in the time trial of Dauphine in June by quite some margin, while also controlling everything on the climbs, and then going on and being just as good in the Tour. You have to be joking to call that a "very good" gt rider. He beat Nibali by 6 minutes at the end.

He was a god level gt rider. he was a far better gt rider than track cyclist, considering he destroyed the entire talent pool in road cycling for an entire year. Compare that pool to the pool in team pursuit.
I distinctly remember him struggling at he back end of the Tour. La Toussuire and the final mountain stage spring to mind
 
Mar 13, 2009
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but Wiggins would have struggled if he had to go up against a fit and in form Andy Schleck, Floyd Landis, Andreas Kloeden, Levi Leipheimer, Lance Armstrong, Frank Schleck, Thomas Dekker,Contador, Rasmussen, Cadel Evans, Vincenzo Nibali, Deni Menchov, Vinokourov, Kashechkin, Joseba Beloki, Iban Mayo, Valverde, Ullrich

if they are all at 100% vroome and Wigans just makeup the numbers. they would be also rans.

they profited from doping on two planes, i) the enforcement and banning of their competitors ii) being able to put their level on a new threshold.

i still reckon Landis might be the most talented of the lot
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
King Boonen said:
What are Sky doing? Well, no-one really knows. What we do know is they have managed to transform two extremely talented track riders into very good GT riders/domestiques (Thomas and Wiggins) which I still think should be possible clean (I'm not saying either are here). They have also taken a reasonably talented domestique (as in, could ride pro tour rather than pro conti talented) and turned him into a world beater at a late age with very little indication this would be possible.
You keep trying to defend Wiggins by being deceptive about his on road acheivements. His numbers when he won the Tour were in Lance range. He won Paris Nice, Romandie and Dauphine in the same season, something I remember sky fans being extremely giddy about back then because no one had ever done it. He also then won the Tour de France. He didn't have a single bad day and beat or matched his rivals on every stage. He then won the olympics. His VAM on Verbier in 09 when he was coming off the Giro like Contador is now, is up there with the best of all time from EPO era. He beat Vincenzo Nibali in the climbs in 2 consecutive grand tours they faced eachother.

He went through an entire season without having a bad day. Look at the Tour now. Riders constantly having bad days, losing and gaining form throughout the Tour, people like nibali struggling to even get on form. Look at TJVG struggling cos he peaked too early for the Dauphine. Compare that to wiggins having unbeatable peak form for 6 months. Compare that to Wiggins beating tony Martin in the time trial of Dauphine in June by quite some margin, while also controlling everything on the climbs, and then going on and being just as good in the Tour. You have to be joking to call that a "very good" gt rider. He beat Nibali by 6 minutes at the end.

He was a god level gt rider. he was a far better gt rider than track cyclist, considering he destroyed the entire talent pool in road cycling for an entire year. Compare that pool to the pool in team pursuit.
No I don't, I haven't for quite a while now. Please read and understand my posts before you reply to them. I clearly state that I am not saying either Wiggins or Thomas are clean, just that I think you can probably take a very good track rider and turn them into a GC rider. I've even bolded the sentence for you. You are twisting words to try and fit the narrative you want to argue to draw me into a conversation I do not want to have and did not intend on having, so I will not be.
 
May 26, 2009
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Re: Re:

gazr99 said:
The Hitch said:
King Boonen said:
samhocking said:
What are Sky doing? Well, no-one really knows. What we do know is they have managed to transform two extremely talented track riders into very good GT riders/domestiques (Thomas and Wiggins) which I still think should be possible clean (I'm not saying either are here). They have also taken a reasonably talented domestique (as in, could ride pro tour rather than pro conti talented) and turned him into a world beater at a late age with very little indication this would be possible.
You keep trying to defend Wiggins by being deceptive about his on road acheivements. His numbers when he won the Tour were in Lance range. He won Paris Nice, Romandie and Dauphine in the same season, something I remember sky fans being extremely giddy about back then because no one had ever done it. He also then won the Tour de France. He didn't have a single bad day and beat or matched his rivals on every stage. He then won the olympics. His VAM on Verbier in 09 when he was coming off the Giro like Contador is now, is up there with the best of all time from EPO era. He beat Vincenzo Nibali in the climbs in 2 consecutive grand tours they faced eachother.

He went through an entire season without having a bad day. Look at the Tour now. Riders constantly having bad days, losing and gaining form throughout the Tour, people like nibali struggling to even get on form. Look at TJVG struggling cos he peaked too early for the Dauphine. Compare that to wiggins having unbeatable peak form for 6 months. Compare that to Wiggins beating tony Martin in the time trial of Dauphine in June by quite some margin, while also controlling everything on the climbs, and then going on and being just as good in the Tour. You have to be joking to call that a "very good" gt rider. He beat Nibali by 6 minutes at the end.

He was a god level gt rider. he was a far better gt rider than track cyclist, considering he destroyed the entire talent pool in road cycling for an entire year. Compare that pool to the pool in team pursuit.
I distinctly remember him struggling at he back end of the Tour. La Toussuire and the final mountain stage spring to mind
His rivals really made him pay for those struggles.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Re: Re:

gazr99 said:
I distinctly remember him struggling at he back end of the Tour. La Toussuire and the final mountain stage spring to mind
I distinctly remember him smashing everyone by minutes in the final TT.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
He beat Nibali by 6 minutes at the end.
3:38 over 55 km in the final TT alone. :confused:

The Hitch said:
He was a god level gt rider. he was a far better gt rider than track cyclist, considering he destroyed the entire talent pool in road cycling for an entire year. Compare that pool to the pool in team pursuit.
This x 100.
 
May 26, 2009
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Re:

samhocking said:
No problem. Surely any Dr's main role, other than administering PEDs we assume is to know how to achieve this in a way that his riders won't get caught - in which case Leinders doesn't have a great track record there either lol.
Again you show your sheer lack of knowledge about this. If you are indeed an expert, why does everytime we go into cyclings history you are shown to be clueless?

The one caught by a test was a domestique who took a hormone. He was internally already on the way out (he was already fired when the news broke), so it's unlikely it was under the team-program.

Thomas Dekker failed tests retroactively, "surprisingly" again after Rabobank had ditched him.

So Sam, you have been shown to be ignorant about cobbled classics and GT's, you have shown to be ignorant about riders like Miollema, you have been shown to know nothing about Froome until you did a despreate Wiki run when people were laughing in your face, you show to be absolutely clueless about the successes of Rabo and now you finish it off by thinking Leinders had many riders caught.

And now you say Campervan man has crap knowledge of Rabo? :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re:

lovealiens said:
blackcat said:
King Boonen said:
What are Sky doing? Well, no-one really knows. What we do know is they have managed to transform two extremely talented track riders into very good GT riders/domestiques (Thomas and Wiggins) which I still think should be possible clean (I'm not saying either are here). They have also taken a reasonably talented domestique (as in, could ride pro tour rather than pro conti talented) and turned him into a world beater at a late age with very little indication this would be possible.
actually, I think you have got it around the wrong way. I know this is the similar pov to everyone else.

I have the opposite pov. If you search a post "search: Froome+fraud poster:blackcat" i gave vroom quite a comprehensive defense. And I think he was more talented than the other native brits. And I think potentially G was a better pursuiter than Wigans. but Wigans had about 7 years on him, and they wanted to win the team pursuit in the same competitions.

vroom's first TdF with John Robertson's Barloworld was a big success, climbed well, timetrialled top 20 in both, was hanging with Konsta Sioutsou in the GC. what a great debut. He was 22. I think it was close to Andy's second place as a 21 yo in the Giro, for his debut in a GT. no, not as good, but still, a phenomenal debut. And we know that Andy was pretty dirty just like Ricco when he was riding in VC Roubaix and Cyrille Guimmard. And before Claudio Corti or whoever gave the putsch on John Robertson, Barloworld and Konica Minolta were not any different to those amateur teams in Italy

Froome came 83 I think in that 2008 tour! 2 hours 22 mins behind.

Then hmm 4 years later he is "da man" he is transformed by the miracle (Or Lancified) and probably could have won, but Wiggins was team lead.
That's right, he had an occasional stage showing but Barloworld's focus was far more fixated on the likes of Soler, Augustyn, Gasparotto, with Cooke and Hunter in the sprints. He was a capable domestique, but nothing exceptional by any means.
 
May 13, 2015
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Re: Re:

42x16ss said:
lovealiens said:
blackcat said:
King Boonen said:
What are Sky doing? Well, no-one really knows. What we do know is they have managed to transform two extremely talented track riders into very good GT riders/domestiques (Thomas and Wiggins) which I still think should be possible clean (I'm not saying either are here). They have also taken a reasonably talented domestique (as in, could ride pro tour rather than pro conti talented) and turned him into a world beater at a late age with very little indication this would be possible.
actually, I think you have got it around the wrong way. I know this is the similar pov to everyone else.

I have the opposite pov. If you search a post "search: Froome+fraud poster:blackcat" i gave vroom quite a comprehensive defense. And I think he was more talented than the other native brits. And I think potentially G was a better pursuiter than Wigans. but Wigans had about 7 years on him, and they wanted to win the team pursuit in the same competitions.

vroom's first TdF with John Robertson's Barloworld was a big success, climbed well, timetrialled top 20 in both, was hanging with Konsta Sioutsou in the GC. what a great debut. He was 22. I think it was close to Andy's second place as a 21 yo in the Giro, for his debut in a GT. no, not as good, but still, a phenomenal debut. And we know that Andy was pretty dirty just like Ricco when he was riding in VC Roubaix and Cyrille Guimmard. And before Claudio Corti or whoever gave the putsch on John Robertson, Barloworld and Konica Minolta were not any different to those amateur teams in Italy

Froome came 83 I think in that 2008 tour! 2 hours 22 mins behind.

Then hmm 4 years later he is "da man" he is transformed by the miracle (Or Lancified) and probably could have won, but Wiggins was team lead.
That's right, he had an occasional stage showing but Barloworld's focus was far more fixated on the likes of Soler, Augustyn, Gasparotto, with Cooke and Hunter in the sprints. He was a capable domestique, but nothing exceptional by any means.
And didn't some of those Barloworld guys have an issue? I can't recall? Was it a doping problem? Yet the Dawg saw nothing and was shocked.
 
Re: Re:

Jimsnchz said:
42x16ss said:
lovealiens said:
blackcat said:
King Boonen said:
What are Sky doing? Well, no-one really knows. What we do know is they have managed to transform two extremely talented track riders into very good GT riders/domestiques (Thomas and Wiggins) which I still think should be possible clean (I'm not saying either are here). They have also taken a reasonably talented domestique (as in, could ride pro tour rather than pro conti talented) and turned him into a world beater at a late age with very little indication this would be possible.
actually, I think you have got it around the wrong way. I know this is the similar pov to everyone else.

I have the opposite pov. If you search a post "search: Froome+fraud poster:blackcat" i gave vroom quite a comprehensive defense. And I think he was more talented than the other native brits. And I think potentially G was a better pursuiter than Wigans. but Wigans had about 7 years on him, and they wanted to win the team pursuit in the same competitions.

vroom's first TdF with John Robertson's Barloworld was a big success, climbed well, timetrialled top 20 in both, was hanging with Konsta Sioutsou in the GC. what a great debut. He was 22. I think it was close to Andy's second place as a 21 yo in the Giro, for his debut in a GT. no, not as good, but still, a phenomenal debut. And we know that Andy was pretty dirty just like Ricco when he was riding in VC Roubaix and Cyrille Guimmard. And before Claudio Corti or whoever gave the putsch on John Robertson, Barloworld and Konica Minolta were not any different to those amateur teams in Italy

Froome came 83 I think in that 2008 tour! 2 hours 22 mins behind.

Then hmm 4 years later he is "da man" he is transformed by the miracle (Or Lancified) and probably could have won, but Wiggins was team lead.
That's right, he had an occasional stage showing but Barloworld's focus was far more fixated on the likes of Soler, Augustyn, Gasparotto, with Cooke and Hunter in the sprints. He was a capable domestique, but nothing exceptional by any means.
And didn't some of those Barloworld guys have an issue? I can't recall? Was it a doping problem? Yet the Dawg saw nothing and was shocked.
You know what? I do believe you're right. And to think that Barloworld was also a UK registered squad :eek:
 
Jul 18, 2013
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FROOME IS INVICIBLE!!! Mechanicals, lost teamates, a quick shag with Michelle. Nothing can stop the alien!

You attack me when my chain comes loose? No problem - I'll chase you down like a radioactive Pantani. You don't scare me!

For my next feat, I'll race the Stig in a Ferrari around the Top Geat test track.
 
Jul 20, 2015
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Re: Re:

BigMac said:
gazr99 said:
FroomehasneverdopedX said:
too bad everybody didnt attack when he lost the chain...
It's an unwritten rule to not attack the leader when he has a mechanical
This deep in the race, with so few opportunities left to assault the lead, is where the unwritten rules become just that. A choice.
True some follow, some don't. Ala Astana & Katusha upping the pace on Stage 16 at the Giro when Contador had an apparent mechanical
 
Oct 4, 2014
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Re: Re:

gazr99 said:
FroomehasneverdopedX said:
too bad everybody didnt attack when he lost the chain...
It's an unwritten rule to not attack the leader when he has a mechanical
I doubt Nibali realized it was a mechanical. I also doubt Froome would have chased him down, anyway.
 
May 26, 2009
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I am 100% sure Nibbles saw the mechanical (it was already obvious for 10-20 secs before Froome lost contact). Nibali has a personal feud with Sky ever since 2012, so this is to be expected.

Most amusing of that feud was the olympics where Nibali (with the spaniards!) did everything just to let teh Brittish loose, but he has shown glimpses of his anger quite a few times in all those years.

On that note, Valverde and Sky also had a bit of a spat in 2012, but it seems cooler heads prevailed.
 

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