Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[JRanton]

Re:

So this steroid is ok out of competition but the problem occurs if you then arrive at the race still with it in your system (ie.glowing). On the phone to the network and organise an emergency TUE that can also be backdated as a bonus and any steroids in your system are now legal. And with this you are now seen as "being honest and transparent".

You've just made all of that up.

 

[JRanton]

Re:

To me the simple thing is that the TUE system has to be changed and Froome is a perfect and simple example : he only used it twice in 9 years it seems. My point would simply be, why then did'nt he retire from the 2014 Romandie and the other race to be healed for what he had at the time ? It surely wouln't have broken his career would it ?

There could be many less TUEs, or rather most of the those TUEs should have been assorted with a work stoppage period : the doctor prescribes a medication allowing the athlete to get better, in the meanwhile, he rests.. This is exactly the same impression I had yesterday with Serena Williams' shitty 2014 spring with lots of med : just stop competition, get your TUE to get healed and then go back to the sport... That would be so much simpler.

The 2nd TUE wasn't used during the Dauphine as far as I can see. The medication started two weeks before. As for Romandie 2014, well Froome had already not raced Tirreno that year due to a back problem so you can understand why he'd be keen to race Romandie as an important prep race in the build up for the Tour. Interestingly, he also had to DNS Tirreno the following year due to illness and was criticised by RCS, the race organiser, for doing so.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

To me the simple thing is that the TUE system has to be changed and Froome is a perfect and simple example : he only used it twice in 9 years it seems. My point would simply be, why then did'nt he retire from the 2014 Romandie and the other race to be healed for what he had at the time ? It surely wouln't have broken his career would it ?

There could be many less TUEs, or rather most of the those TUEs should have been assorted with a work stoppage period : the doctor prescribes a medication allowing the athlete to get better, in the meanwhile, he rests.. This is exactly the same impression I had yesterday with Serena Williams' shitty 2014 spring with lots of med : just stop competition, get your TUE to get healed and then go back to the sport... That would be so much simpler.

The 2nd TUE wasn't used during the Dauphine as far as I can see. The medication started two weeks before. As for Romandie 2014, well Froome had already not raced Tirreno that year due to a back problem so you can understand why he'd be keen to race Romandie as an important prep race in the build up for the Tour. Interestingly, he also had to DNS Tirreno the following year due to illness and was criticised by RCS, the race organiser, for doing so.

yup...does that work something like this?

me: doctor I am 'keen' to be a pro cyclist...could you prescribe me lots of banned drugs?

doc: yes I can give you a TUE so that you can achieve your heart's desire...

me: thanks doc

 

[Jeroen Swart]

Re: Re:

To me the simple thing is that the TUE system has to be changed and Froome is a perfect and simple example : he only used it twice in 9 years it seems. My point would simply be, why then did'nt he retire from the 2014 Romandie and the other race to be healed for what he had at the time ? It surely wouln't have broken his career would it ?

There could be many less TUEs, or rather most of the those TUEs should have been assorted with a work stoppage period : the doctor prescribes a medication allowing the athlete to get better, in the meanwhile, he rests.. This is exactly the same impression I had yesterday with Serena Williams' shitty 2014 spring with lots of med : just stop competition, get your TUE to get healed and then go back to the sport... That would be so much simpler.

The 2nd TUE wasn't used during the Dauphine as far as I can see. The medication started two weeks before. As for Romandie 2014, well Froome had already not raced Tirreno that year due to a back problem so you can understand why he'd be keen to race Romandie as an important prep race in the build up for the Tour. Interestingly, he also had to DNS Tirreno the following year due to illness and was criticised by RCS, the race organiser, for doing so.

yup...does that work something like this?

me: doctor I am 'keen' to be a pro cyclist...could you prescribe me lots of banned drugs?

doc: yes I can give you a TUE so that you can achieve your heart's desire...

me: thanks doc

Gillan,

You were far more measured and objective a while back. These latest posts seem far from that.

What's going on?

 

[Benotti69]

Froome was asked in an interview by Paul Kimmage;

PK: You never use cortisone in training?

CF: No, never.

It would appear the TUEs contradict this.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Froome was asked in an interview by Paul Kimmage;

PK: You never use cortisone in training?

CF: No, never.

It would appear the TUEs contradict this.

A) Prednisolone is not cortisone

B) The TUEs do not and cannot contradict that statement because they for in competition and are only required for in competition.

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

Froome was asked in an interview by Paul Kimmage;

PK: You never use cortisone in training?

CF: No, never.

It would appear the TUEs contradict this.

A) Prednisolone is not cortisone

B) The TUEs do not and cannot contradict that statement because they for in competition and are only required for in competition.

I think you just hit that one out of the park :lol:

 

[sniper]

I think Froome comes out of this looking pretty reliable....as far as the TUEs go.
What he said previously about his TUEs has been largely confirmed by the leaked files.
And so what this shows is that, IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, then TRANSPARENCY IS YOUR FRIEND.

And so we're back to the pre-Vuelta 2011 data and all the other things Sky and Froome refuse to be transparent about.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

I think Froome comes out of this looking pretty reliable....as far as the TUEs go.
What he said previously about his TUEs has been largely confirmed by the leaked files.
And so what this shows is that, IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, then TRANSPARENCY IS YOUR FRIEND.

And so we're back to the pre-Vuelta 2011 data and all the other things Sky and Froome refuse to be transparent about.

Got to quote this as I completely agree. If this were all we knew about Froome we would be praising him, he was honest and the leak has confirmed what he said. Thing is, it isn't the only thing we know...

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

To me the simple thing is that the TUE system has to be changed and Froome is a perfect and simple example : he only used it twice in 9 years it seems. My point would simply be, why then did'nt he retire from the 2014 Romandie and the other race to be healed for what he had at the time ? It surely wouln't have broken his career would it ?

There could be many less TUEs, or rather most of the those TUEs should have been assorted with a work stoppage period : the doctor prescribes a medication allowing the athlete to get better, in the meanwhile, he rests.. This is exactly the same impression I had yesterday with Serena Williams' shitty 2014 spring with lots of med : just stop competition, get your TUE to get healed and then go back to the sport... That would be so much simpler.

The 2nd TUE wasn't used during the Dauphine as far as I can see. The medication started two weeks before. As for Romandie 2014, well Froome had already not raced Tirreno that year due to a back problem so you can understand why he'd be keen to race Romandie as an important prep race in the build up for the Tour. Interestingly, he also had to DNS Tirreno the following year due to illness and was criticised by RCS, the race organiser, for doing so.

yup...does that work something like this?

me: doctor I am 'keen' to be a pro cyclist...could you prescribe me lots of banned drugs?

doc: yes I can give you a TUE so that you can achieve your heart's desire...

me: thanks doc

Gillan,

You were far more measured and objective a while back. These latest posts seem far from that.

What's going on?

Jeroen

its the 'keen' bit from prvious response...the level of the bar is actually set quite high for TUEs but is applied quite low

Froome should have DNF'd in Romandie...or not ridden...it's not there to allow you to keep riding to ensure form...it's there because you are ill

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

TUEs are on the increase.

Being too lazy to check, could anyone run up the numbers from the Fancy Bears leak - specifically WRT cycling, but if you really want to go the whole hog go the whole hog - and tell us does this statement stand up straight in the face of evidence? GRMA.

 

[sniper]

Interesting read on right side of page 724 bottom of second paragraph.
TUEs for adhd medicine/stimulants in baseball almost quadrupled after these were banned in 2006
https://books.google.pl/books?id=9ibOBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA724&lpg=PA724&dq=increase+therapeutic.use+exemptions&source=bl&ots=UMF5LoszpL&sig=oSI8swjMtw-9J4y6qxda1tKe11Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVkNSa5JHPAhUGD5oKHR4lAy8Q6AEIMzAJ#v=onepage&q=increase%20therapeutic.use%20exemptions&f=false

 

[thehook]

Not a fan of FROOME or SKY. At all....

However Froome comes out of this unscathed IMHO..>..Wiggo on the other hand? Not so much

 

[DanielSong39]

Obviously, Wiggins and Froome both dope.

But Wiggins summed it up the best, claiming that the WADA report contained no new information.

Let's see how Froome fares in the World Championships. Should be among the favorites in the time trial; we all know he won't win the road race.

 

[mike75]

Re: Re:

I was surprised that Froome and Quintana didn't drop off in weeks 2 and 3 after a hard Tour... I really thought Contador and Chaves would fight it out. Clearly, the top two finishers displayed remarkable recovery skills.

Has nothing to do with the backlash with Froome. You're always going to get your share if you're on top.

With that said, I must admit that watching the Sky train is like watching the US Postal train which is like watching the Banesto train.

There was no Sky train in the Vuelta. In fact what you had in the Vuelta was the Movistar train, when on the first uphill finish 4 Movistar riders went off the front with only Chaves for company. Very little outrage about that, which is interesting. Not that I thought it was that surprising, after all, like Sky, Movistar has probably the best roster in the peloton for GC climbing support.

I've been on this forum for a few years now and I whilst I'm the first one to acknowledge that Froome's initial jump in performance was highly suspicious, especially considering the sport's history, his consistency since that breakthrough performance actually makes him far less suspicious to me and I think someone we can believe in.

It's also impossible to ignore the fact that a very significant amount of the criticism and scepticism of Sky and Froome comes from fans of Alberto Contador. You can kind of understand why that's the case. After all, Contador, like many of the champions before him, is a convicted drug cheat. Those people have already had to contend with the reality that their favourite cyclist is a cheat, so when a clean team and rider comes along and beats him, it must be very difficult for those people to deal with. The natural reaction for those people is to lash out at Froome and Sky and accuse them of cheating.

Somebody on here made a very good point, which was, ''In the years to come we'll find out if Sky has taken the sport 10 years forward or 10 years backwards''. The idea that Sky and Froome might actually be the good guys and have taken the sport forward into a new era of respectability is one that many people simply can't bare to contemplate.

LMAO, are you an American cycling "fan" from 1999 back from the grave? This is EXACTLY the trajectory of Armstrong, zero to hero overnight (coming back from "illness").

 

[mike75]

Re:

hahaha came here to laugh at the tinfoil fools who were expecting froome to dope. called it here several years ago.

Huh? So because his WADA TUE files are not earth shattering, that completely clears him of any and all doping suspicions? I don't even know how to respond to this, it is so ridiculous a statement. Just wow. :surprised:

 

[MatParker117]

Obviously, Wiggins and Froome both dope.

But Wiggins summed it up the best, claiming that the WADA report contained no new information.

Let's see how Froome fares in the World Championships. Should be among the favorites in the time trial; we all know he won't win the road race.

Seasons over.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

Interesting read on right side of page 724 bottom of second paragraph.
TUEs for adhd medicine/stimulants in baseball almost quadrupled after these were banned in 2006
https://books.google.pl/books?id=9ibOBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA724&lpg=PA724&dq=increase+therapeutic.use+exemptions&source=bl&ots=UMF5LoszpL&sig=oSI8swjMtw-9J4y6qxda1tKe11Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVkNSa5JHPAhUGD5oKHR4lAy8Q6AEIMzAJ#v=onepage&q=increase%20therapeutic.use%20exemptions&f=false

Why were there TUEs before they were banned? <scratches head>

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Interesting read on right side of page 724 bottom of second paragraph.
TUEs for adhd medicine/stimulants in baseball almost quadrupled after these were banned in 2006
https://books.google.pl/books?id=9ibOBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA724&lpg=PA724&dq=increase+therapeutic.use+exemptions&source=bl&ots=UMF5LoszpL&sig=oSI8swjMtw-9J4y6qxda1tKe11Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVkNSa5JHPAhUGD5oKHR4lAy8Q6AEIMzAJ#v=onepage&q=increase%20therapeutic.use%20exemptions&f=false

Why were there TUEs before they were banned? <scratches head>

Ha good question. In any case it stands to reason that the number of tues has increased over time as the number of banned substances has increased too.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Interesting read on right side of page 724 bottom of second paragraph.
TUEs for adhd medicine/stimulants in baseball almost quadrupled after these were banned in 2006
https://books.google.pl/books?id=9ibOBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA724&lpg=PA724&dq=increase+therapeutic.use+exemptions&source=bl&ots=UMF5LoszpL&sig=oSI8swjMtw-9J4y6qxda1tKe11Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVkNSa5JHPAhUGD5oKHR4lAy8Q6AEIMzAJ#v=onepage&q=increase%20therapeutic.use%20exemptions&f=false

Why were there TUEs before they were banned? <scratches head>

Ha good question. In any case it stands to reason that the number of tues has increased over time as the number of banned substances has increased too.

But even a twelve year old would be able to see that a claim that TUEs quadrupled in a period is utter balderdash when the increase is X over zero. So in any case why repeat such nonsense? What is "interesting" in it?

 

[sniper]

So you no longer doubt the statement that TUEs are on the increase? Progression.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

So you no longer doubt the statement that TUEs are on the increase? Progression.

You're joining dots again sniper, and once again getting the wrong answer. I made no comment about whether or not TUEs are increasing, I questioned you on what was interesting about a statistic which even you appear to be now admitting is utter nonsense. A question you appear unable to answer. Perhaps that could mean there was nothing interesting in it?

As to your comment, quoted below:

In any case it stands to reason that the number of tues has increased over time as the number of banned substances has increased too.

Reason is clearly one of your weak areas. It does not stand to reason. So let's park reason and go with cold, hard facts: the numbers. The UCI's numbers follow for you:

Year 2009 TUEs granted 239
Year 2010 TUEs granted 97
Year 2011 TUEs granted 56
Year 2012 TUEs granted 47
Year 2013 TUEs granted 30
Year 2014 TUEs granted 24
Year 2015 TUEs granted 13

In case you need it pointing out, those numbers are not increasing. They are in fact doing the opposite of increasing: decreasing. Disagree with them, please do. But do so with numbers, not bull crap.

 

[adamfo]

Re: Re:

Interesting that Froome has two TUE's issued by Zorzoli for 40mg of Prednisolone (Same as Serena for French open final) for the Tour of Romandie (Apr. 29 - May 4), one issued on Apr. 29, but the other issued on June 16th. That was a few days after Froome was caught on video using an inhaler on the Daupiné. Odd.

Froome crushed the May 4th ITT on the last day of Romandie, beating Tony Martin by a second. Helluva performance given his newfound Exercise Induced Asthma acting up.

Yawn. An athlete taking a corticosteroid drug is not the “sensational proof” the Ruskies and conspiracy theorists like you seem to think

And with this statement, you demonstrate that nothing other than a 'mea culpa' appearance on Oprah will ever be enough for you. When you see the conditions for granting a TUE, does it strike you that to be poorly enough to need one to address an acute condition probably means you shouldn't be in any fit state to go out and beat Tony Martin in a time trial?

No, because at anyone time a high percentage of endurance athletes have exercised-induced asthma. Hardly surprising given the huge volumes of air they get through and the contaminants in it.
Froome has only used Prednisolone twice in pro-competition in recent years.

 

[Fergoose]

The Russians have actually probably done Froome a favour here. I'd have suspected he'd have had more than two TUEs (presumably ones relating to his miraculous recoveries from bouts of Bilharzia). Also of interest that Wiggins & Froome (who some posters consider both to be dopers) had completely different TUEs for different substances. Surely, if it was team doping, it'd have been safer to just have both develop asthma, get TUEs for similar treatments and conduct similar masking options.

 

[maxmayer555]

so Froome had Bilharzia and Asthma...? Two things which do not fit:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/sep/05/research.health
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12743556
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16210901