Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[EnacheV]

I will resume it what was merged in this thread

Some enraged Lazio fan wants

1. media ignore froome
2. riders refuse to ride with froome
3. some other stuff that was also same idiotic ideea level that i forgot.

will say again

Im always amazed when the new level of stupidity breaks the old unbelievable record

Replace Froome with 20-30 names of past proved dopers in the peleton and its still a stupidity.

but compared to the most of the posts the enraged Lazio fan did put some effort in a long post, using bold and stuff. + for effort

 

[Alphabet]

Again with the deflection. It doesn't matter which football team he supports. That does not cloud his judgement on cycling.

 

[The Hitch]

Uoi, uoi, Multo Bueno! Me parla Italiano et Espaniole et francais tres Bueno!

Si si, yo también, je parle français e italiano e español multo bene! Et un poco portugueso.

Tu parlo bene ma scrivere pazzo. Oui, oui, non Uoi, Uoi. Capito?

in before ls

Είμαι θυμωμένος νότιας Ευρώπης

 

[meat puppet]

Well according to Rob Hayles on Eurosport it was specifically designed to cope with the winds in that part of France for today's stage. He was standing there by the Sky bus with the bike in his hands and I assume that info came from someone with slightly more knowledge than you? The bike was angled apparently to be more aerodynamic in a particular type of crosswind.

i know that they prolly will never top phil and paul's ramblings about lance using perfectly aged tubulars (aged in a wine cellar of course), but this one is coming close at least.

next up: a stealth liquid metal bike, self-adjusting perfectly to the wind conditions

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Deflection of facts.....

Poor Dawg, he is so screwed up by all of this that he cannot understand a question (or is trying to become a Master of Deflection & Obfuscation)

From CN today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-dismisses-vayers-power-estimates):

"In an article for Le Monde earlier this week, for instance, former Festina trainer Antoine Vayer estimated that Froome produced an average power output of 446 watts on the final climb to Ax 3 Domaines on Saturday, but the yellow jersey dismissed the figures when they were put to him during his press conference after stage 12 to Tours.

"I don't think it's humanly possible to average 440 watts for a whole stage so that's out of the question. That's far, far from what I think is possible," said Froome."

So Dawg did a 187km neutral zone, for an 8km stage??

He really does need to do a bit better than this effort.....

 

[murali]

Sorry to hear about your uncle.

Froome has a decent history in the TT's as well. Not saying his progress isn't eye-popping, but he finished second in a BIG TT several times already. In all fairness, Froome clearly has shown his TT skills quite early in his career. Froome is a young guy.

It's not the results that are surprising, it's the wattages and the combination of weightloss, enhanced climbing, yet unflagging TT skills that sound all alarms. We seen this before and besides Wiggo it never ended well. And Froome is several levels better at climbing than Wiggo.

The only second I could see was the 1' + behind wiggins with gerrant thomas coming behind him in National championship.

I don't understand the wattage calculations, but I can differentiate what is plausible improvement and astonishing improvement. WIth Froome, the improvement levels are off the chart. I can allow for a hard-working and fast learning student, as you seem to indicate, but the level of improvement looks suspicious.

(please don't compare with wiggins. That guy doesn't talk straight.)

All of that sounds so bad, crippling, lethal. I would expect somebody with advanced bilharzia to be permanently bedridden, and I would be shocked if they could even ride a bike, let alone dominate the pro peloton.

The Bilharzia story simply feels unbelievable because of this only.

My apprehension is that sky is using this story to cover up for any red-blood cell count variations in the off season.

 

[murali]

From CN today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-dismisses-vayers-power-estimates):

......

"I don't think it's humanly possible to average 440 watts for a whole stage so that's out of the question. That's far, far from what I think is possible," said Froome."

Thats the article that really confirmed my suspicions. This guy is an educated thief. All those ppl who are hoping for tht 7W/kg will never get it.

I think if the spaniards can push Froome enough, then he would back off just so that he doesn't get caught.

 

[Alphabet]

What happened to Froome at last year's Vuelta, though? This isn't the same Froome. And he was so strong in the Tour that year, too. Maybe it was the hot weather that made him lose big time in the first week, and then he lost motivation?

 

[laziali]

I will resume it what was merged in this thread

Some enraged Lazio fan wants

1. media ignore froome
2. riders refuse to ride with froome
3. some other stuff that was also same idiotic ideea level that i forgot.

will say again

Im always amazed when the new level of stupidity breaks the old unbelievable record

Replace Froome with 20-30 names of past proved dopers in the peleton and its still a stupidity.

but compared to the most of the posts the enraged Lazio fan did put some effort in a long post, using bold and stuff. + for effort

The football team I support isn't relevant to my post. Do you know how to debate the idea and read the facts, EnachvE, or is personal abuse the limit of your skills?

Some of us who have been around here rather longer than you know that the way to earn respect is to debate the topic on its merits. You should try it.

 

[acoggan]

Tucker's rebuttal is a straw man. He's comparing apples (wattage on a HC climb at the end of a mtn stage in the 2nd or 3rd week of a GT) and oranges (FTP at sea level in a rested state).

Actually, I'd say his rebuttal is really agreement. That is, 5.9-6.0 W/kg on long climbs deep into a GT is consistent with an FTP of 6.4-6.5 W/kg, at least if you believe that fatigue limits you to ~90% of your best at that point in the race.

 

[Mr.38%]

Actually, I'd say his rebuttal is really agreement. That is, 5.9-6.0 W/kg on long climbs deep into a GT is consistent with an FTP of 6.4-6.5 W/kg, at least if you believe that fatigue limits you to ~90% of your best at that point in the race.

Problem is, the estimated performance is 447W/65kg and 6,88W/kg. If we had actual SRM data from say 10 and 20th placed rider, we could at least extrapolate the extraterrestrial.

 

[Catwhoorg]

What happened to Froome at last year's Vuelta, though? This isn't the same Froome. And he was so strong in the Tour that year, too. Maybe it was the hot weather that made him lose big time in the first week, and then he lost motivation?

Just was too soon after le tour.

 

[frenchfry]

Actually he still had it in January of this year and underwent treatment. Funny how he relapses during the off-season.

Funny ha ha, or funny strange (like totally unbelievable)

 

[horsinabout]

Another thought occured to me, why of all people on the team did Froome improve so much?

Why not Löfkvist or Uran? Two riders who most people would say were more talented (unless one accepts a hick hypothesis, another of the conditions that while plausible each by itself, don't really paint a pretty picture when added together).

Why do only a few people noticeably benefit from the "better training"?

Putting this thread back on topic.....some good early questions on Froom's rise.

Possible answers.....diamond mines. Very expensive "better training", and if none of those hit the spot then we may have to run with the hypothesis that "god works in mysterious ways".

 

[darwin553]

What the LA saga teaches us is that the anti-Sky establishment on here can't lose the debate. They can lose a battle here or there, have a bad day but they can't lose the war after all LA (barring testimony given from his ex-teammates) could disspell any other credible doping control evidence (i.e. passed over 400 drug tests).

 

[del1962]

The football team I support isn't relevant to my post. Do you know how to debate the idea and read the facts, EnachvE, or is personal abuse the limit of your skills?

Some of us who have been around here rather longer than you know that the way to earn respect is to debate the topic on its merits. You should try it.

I am interested in what Vino, Riis, Alberto and Piti will say when they refuse to ride with Sky as you suggested though.

Interviewr : Ahem, Alberto, why you not ride with Chris,
Alberto : Well Mr Vayer said he is a doper because he is fast
Interviewer : Well, didn't Vayer say the same about your performances
Alberto : Well that is me, then fans love me, anyway talk to my teammate ROman he is stonger than me,

Interviewr: Hi Roman, whay you not ride with Froome
Roman : Well I consulted my former coach Dr Ferrari, he says I can beat Froome if I work with him again. But I do not know if I wan't to follow his methods, anyway have a word with my boss.

Interview: Hi Mr Riis, why your riders not ride with Sky
Bjarne : Mumble, I never met Fuentes, Mumble, Mumble, I am to busy trying to find where Tyler lives to answer your stupid questions, have a word with Astanas boss, he knows Fuentes.

 

[Pulpstar]

Just putting this out there - Could Froome's bilharzia episode have made him stronger ?

With worms munching on his red blood cells its a bloody miracle he could ride anywhere !

And now he's over it his body has gone into producing more red cells than anyone else over the history of ever

Is his body's recovery from Bilharzia giving him EPO-like top ups naturally ? Is Chris Froome's physiology the equivalent of Muralitharan's bowling arm ?!


Mind you I asked myself the question of Lance Armstrong and his cancer treatments for a good few years so I'm probably completely wrong - just raising it as a debating point...

 

[laziali]

I am interested in what Vino, Riis, Alberto and Piti will say when they refuse to ride with Sky as you suggested though.

Interviewr : Ahem, Alberto, why you not ride with Chris,
Alberto : Well Mr Vayer said he is a doper because he is fast
Interviewer : Well, didn't Vayer say the same about your performances
Alberto : Well that is me, then fans love me, anyway talk to my teammate ROman he is stonger than me,

Interviewr: Hi Roman, whay you not ride with Froome
Roman : Well I consulted my former coach Dr Ferrari, he says I can beat Froome if I work with him again. But I do not know if I wan't to follow his methods, anyway have a word with my boss.

Interview: Hi Mr Riis, why your riders not ride with Sky
Bjarne : Mumble, I never met Fuentes, Mumble, Mumble, I am to busy trying to find where Tyler lives to answer your stupid questions, have a word with Astanas boss, he knows Fuentes.

No no, you missed the final sentence of my OP - the bit about Froome going full ***. Going full *** is akin to spitting in the soup as far as other dopers are concerned. Draws attention, you see. Different motivations can get different folks to achieve the same outcome. Nevermind, I was obviously too subtle

 

[The Hitch]

Or

Riders "lets all ride against sky"

Sky fanboy: "ungratetful south european dopers. You should be thanking us, the master race, for making cycling clean on our own so that cheats like you dont prosper. FU"

Riders: "Excuse me. We have been riding our guts out since January in training, puking into buckets every day, taking ourselves to limits we never knew existed. But in come Sky with their unprescedented influence over the press to dismiss our sacrifices by saying we dont train as hard as them.

They then have the gall to say that they are so succesful because EVERYONE else is too reliant on doping While changing their story and lying to the press more than we ever did

Sure we doped, but we didnt go around insulting and humilating people for some power trip

Treat people like garbage and expect a backlash. See Lance."

 

[acoggan]

Problem is, the estimated performance is 447W/65kg and 6,88W/kg.

Estimated by whom? (The estimates I have seen very rather widely - not surprising, given the uncertainty of the inputs - so I'm just curious as to whose estimate you are referring.)

 

[Cerberus]

Just putting this out there - Could Froome's bilharzia episode have made him stronger ?

With worms munching on his red blood cells its a bloody miracle he could ride anywhere !

And now he's over it his body has gone into producing more red cells than anyone else over the history of ever

Is his body's recovery from Bilharzia giving him EPO-like top ups naturally ? Is Chris Froome's physiology the equivalent of Muralitharan's bowling arm ?!


Mind you I asked myself the question of Lance Armstrong and his cancer treatments for a good few years so I'm probably completely wrong - just raising it as a debating point...

Well I'm not a doctor, but my general view is much as it was with Armstrong. Disease can kill you, disease can cripple you or, if you're lucky you'll make a perfect recovery. It cannot give you superpowers, this isn't a comic book.

More specifically the disease isn't that rare, if this was the one disease that actually gave you the proportional speed, strength and endurance of a bacteria (whatever that is) we'd have heard it from some doctor who knew it was the case, and we wouldn't have to speculate, expect about how many Tour riders and other athletes were going to deliberately infect themselves with the disease.

 

[Alphabet]

Just putting this out there - Could Froome's bilharzia episode have made him stronger ?

With worms munching on his red blood cells its a bloody miracle he could ride anywhere !

And now he's over it his body has gone into producing more red cells than anyone else over the history of ever

Is his body's recovery from Bilharzia giving him EPO-like top ups naturally ? Is Chris Froome's physiology the equivalent of Muralitharan's bowling arm ?!


Mind you I asked myself the question of Lance Armstrong and his cancer treatments for a good few years so I'm probably completely wrong - just raising it as a debating point...

I don't think equating Froome's supposed advantages from recovering from bilharzia (might I add that the idea that someone can somehow be better than everybody else because they have suffered from a lethal disease is Hollywood-tastic) with Murali's arm are fair, because it would appear that if there is indeed some sort of advantage, then Froome is using it exclusively. As in, it's entirely responsible for his dominance. Murali on the other hand was a genius even when he didn't bowl doosra's, he didn't exclusively depend on a freak of nature type advantage that your Froome, according to your theory, would.

 

[vrusimov]

i believe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY

Of course you do, like most humans, and therein lies the rub...I would say you are looking in the wrong place my friend.

 

[No_Balls]

What happened to Froome at last year's Vuelta, though? This isn't the same Froome. And he was so strong in the Tour that year, too. Maybe it was the hot weather that made him lose big time in the first week, and then he lost motivation?

Dopers fatigue most likely.

 

[User Guide]

Does the UCI or WADA or anyone publish a list of TUE's.Including what the treatments are?