Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Dr. Maserati]

When he arrived at the Vuelta, they were able to outbid other callers.
But there were other callers, which tells you something.

Ya, it tells me that Sky were about to off load him.

 

[vrusimov]

And what do we know about the wind conditions 2002 and 2013? Comparable?

I think Liggett indicated headwind, along with a few riders, although some mentioned tailwind. So we can't know for certain either way it seems. I can see where you are going with this however and it is the typical deflection that is given every time a suspicious performance is flagged. Just like Verbier in 2009, the tailwind made Contador produce the greatest performance in the history of the tour by any rider. There are more things to indicate possible nefarious practices than merely climb times. Does Froome look like a rider that has weakened at all in comparison to his rivals? Does his "interesting" accelerations defy what is normal at this stage of a grand tour when his performances should be on the wane? Does he even need to flaunt his superior ability when his lead is sufficient to coast to Paris?

 

[BYOP88]

I'm trawling old ground but Sky didnt actually realise about Froome pre-Vuelta '11 did they,nothing decided on his contract?

Before the Vuelta they offered him a new contract for £100k. Froome's agent(not sure if it's the same one now) wanted to wait to see if there were any better offers. I believe that Lampre were one team that was interested in Froome, pre-Vuelta 2011 not sure if there were any others.

 

[Bexon30]

I've just got off MV today I was 8km up just before where Nairo went. I was the only camper that had a working tv I set it up before the race. I watched the rest of the stage after they rode past. Out of 30~ ish people huddled round Dutch,Czech,French and English one person cheered as he crossed the line. The rest. Miffed.
I can only pass judgement with what I see and hear. And very few believe. Yet I know new fans in England who thinks the sun shines out his...

Take CF out of this Tour and it would be a belter.

 

[Bexon30]

I think Liggett indicated headwind, along with a few riders, although some mentioned tailwind. So we can't know for certain either way it seems. I can see where you are going with this however and it is the typical deflection that is given every time a suspicious performance is flagged. Just like Verbier in 2009, the tailwind made Contador produce the greatest performance in the history of the tour by any rider. There are more things to indicate possible nefarious practices than merely climb times. Does Froome look like a rider that has weakened at all in comparison to his rivals? Does his "interesting" accelerations defy what is normal at this stage of a grand tour when his performances should be on the wane? Does he even need to flaunt his superior ability when his lead is sufficient to coast to Paris?

From riding myself at 11am the top had what seemed by flags and personal experience that it was a slight head wind, but more cross wind imo

 

[will10]

When he arrived at the Vuelta, they were able to outbid other callers.
But there were other callers, which tells you something.

JV said on here that Froome "would get back to him" about his contract offer as first he wanted to make sure Sky weren't going to extend his contract.

Doesn't exactly sound like he was part-way through the master plan that Brailsford was trying to sell this week - the journey from 17th in the Commonwealth Games ITT to Grand Tour winner. Sky were done with him.

 

[frenchfry]

Chicken and Alberto having some fun.

It starts at about 25 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WRqxW9Jyt8

THAT Contador would have given the dawg a run for his money today. The new "steak-free" Contador isn't in the same category.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Garmin and Lampre both reported (after the fact) that they had been looking at Froome, but they would probably have picked him up on a WT minimum salary domestique role. He wasn't seen as anything special because he'd done next to nothing of note.

 

[will10]

THAT Contador would have given the dawg a run for his money today. The new "steak-free" Contador isn't in the same category.

It's worth considering that Rasmussen and Contador hovered around 6.0-6.1w/kg in that Tour.

Humanly possible ≠ Froomenly possible.

 

[ToreBear]

You know, I agree. They should. They can't say something they don't know, but we have seen them speak up more in the past year. What I find interesting is that all the big anti-doper names seem to be on board that Sky is clean, and Froome by extension. Walsh, Lemond anyway. Haven't heard a peep out of Ashenden in ages. Whatshisname - the French guy who wrote the 21 riders article/book - Vayer - has as many or more people "in the know" throwing spitwads at him as he does people sending him Salve Ceasars.

It seems the only thing we have is times/power output, and some bad PR moves by Brailsford. Unfortunately for Contador, I believe his performances since 2009 have proven the case against him, and this year is no exception. Schleck is in the same boat. So they've had to cut back or cut out artificial aid - and Froome can beat them.

What also gets me is that Rogers is still the incredible road captain even if he is not on Sky. Consistency in spite of a change in teams. That leads me to increase the likelihood of Sky being clean as they claim, and Froome by extension. Also, since Rogers jumped ship - if Sky were doing something, I would expect Riis and Contador to be doing it now. Which leaves me with, unfortunately, Froome looking clean.

I don't like it, I don't like Froome, and I don't know why. I am suspicious, but there is less and less evidence of something dodgy. There is not MORE evidence. A fast time by itself does NOT mean a doped performance. If there is dope, we should be seeing smoke somewhere, and we aren't getting any smoke.

<<sniff, sniff>> What's that smell, dog?
I and i, bro. Jah made the herb!

Good post!

 

[happychappy]

This reinforces the point.

But those two were primarily climbers. Froome started out as a TT specialist.

Let's just forget about the time Contador Beat Cancellara in a TT.

 

[frenchfry]

It's worth considering that Rasmussen and Contador hovered around 6.0-6.1w/kg in that Tour.

Humanly possible ≠ Froomenly possible.

Assuming they were clean, when we know they weren't. Thus what happened today clearly isn't humanly possible.

 

[Poursuivant]

So Froome did 5.88 w/kg? Hardly smoking gun is it?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

So Froome did 5.88 w/kg? Hardly smoking gun is it?

yea, same as Armstrong.

Clearly everybody else in the race were club riders and amateurs.

It can happen in a race.

 

[Franklin]

Let's just forget about the time Contador Beat Cancellara in a TT.

I don't forget a thing.

How many times did AC finish top three in a GT or OS TT? How many times did Froome do this? How many times did Lance do this?

The difference is clear wouldn't you agree?

 

[Berzin]

the only apres-ventoux question: is microdosing and own blood enough for this?

Maybe, because the others are either too afraid or can't afford Ferrari's fees.

As for Saxobank, Riis is under investigation and from what I've heard Contador is receiving extra scrutiny via more testing.

Is this enough to open the doors to what Froome is doing utlizing traditional methods? Could be, but his physique doesn't call for the unrestrained power surge he seems to be able to call on whenever he feels like it.

I personally am at a loss. It could be a new combination of steroids and a new, as-of-yet unknown substance that does not show up in testing.

His weight loss and power increase are way too suspicious for this to be a natural performance imo.

 

[burning]

Doc's calculations show that Dawg's time is better than 2002-2007 data.
What a clean living legend

Edit: He looks less ridiculous than Ax-3 Domaines though

 

[Walkman]

So Froome did 5.88 w/kg? Hardly smoking gun is it?

Kind of weird.

I know this climb is special due to the wind but 5,88 w/kg is hardly alien-like.

 

[happychappy]

The difference is clear wouldn't you agree?

The bias is crystal clear, yes.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

So Froome did 5.88 w/kg? Hardly smoking gun is it?

Froome was more than 2 minutes faster than predicted by pvam and 10 seconds faster than dpvam at the end of a 240 km stage ridden faster than the fastest predicted avg speed.

There's no set-in-stone, magical limit (6 W/kg) that can be applied to any performance. Why is it so f-in hard for people to put an estimated W/kg in context? You see this in the replies to vetooo's estimates. 6.1 for 20 minutes at low altitude? "Incredible!" 5.9 for 50 minutes on the Ventoux? "Below 6, not suspicious at all!"

Unbelievable!

 

[the sceptic]

So Froome did 5.88 w/kg? Hardly smoking gun is it?

i thought using w/kg to mesure performance was just pseudo science
But now that Dawg is climbing at "human" levels its relevant again?

 

[The Hitch]

Kimmage article like the one on wiggins last year goes out of its way not to imply froome is doping

Again i think hes looking under the wrong rocks as well. Should be more focus on his 5 month long peak, and on Bailsfords and Wiggins massive flip flops.

 

[Franklin]

The bias is crystal clear, yes.

Yes, your bias is obvious to me as well. I focus on statistics and facts, you clearly don't like that.

Or can you actually come up with a retort that invalidates the statistical difference?

 

[luckyboy]

Wonder if Doc included the 04 TT in the DpVAM + DpW/kg charts.

Froome was more than 2 minutes faster than predicted by pvam and 10 seconds faster than dpvam at the end of a 240 km stage ridden faster than the fastest predicted avg speed.

There's no set-in-stone, magical limit (6 W/kg) that can be applied to any performance. Why is it so f-in hard for people to put an estimated W/kg in context? You see this in the replies to vetooo's estimates. 6.1 for 20 minutes at low altitude? "Incredible!" 5.9 for 50 minutes on the Ventoux? "Below 6, not suspicious at all!"

Unbelievable!

Yeah, good points. Lots missing this.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Doc's calculations show that Dawg's time is better than 2002-2007 data.
What a clean living legend

Edit: He looks less ridiculous than Ax-3 Domaines though

So he's 2 for 2 against the dpvam (2002-2007 GT podium finishers) and absolutely destroying the pvam (2008-2012 GT podium finishers).

Nothing to see here.