Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Juan Speeder]

How much performance can be gained from a modern wattage based training program that includes the hardest efforts being done using supplemental oxygen, coupled with rest in altitude tents/rooms/actual altitude?

Anyone got any numbers?

 

[Juan Speeder]

What that pic doesn't show is what direction the riders were travelling at that moment. At the top, the image shows 5.4km remaining in the stage.

Using gmap pedometer I...

I concluded that you have far too much time on your hands.

Perhaps a hobby is in order. Or is this it?

 

[Merckx index]

I thought the Froome poll thread posted this morning was interesting, not only for the poll, but also for the focused discussion.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=21162

I, for one, am disappointed that it was closed (because "we already have a Froome thread" - this one).

Who is served by such thread closings?

My feelings, too. (The Clinic, never, ever, had more than one Armstrong thread, right?).

Following up on that thread, here is another possibility to explain Froome's ET performance:

Schistosomiasis (Bilharzia) is known to result in a reduction of Hb/red cells. The mechanisms are still not clear, but probably there are several factors involved. Any reduction in red cells would trigger a homeostatic response in the body to increase EPO. So if Froome suffers from the disease, his natural EPO levels are getting a boost while he is symptomatic.

He supposedly has received treatment for the disease too keep it in check. Following treatment, his EPO and red cell levels should eventually stabilize. But during this period there would likely be a lag, in which the flatworms (or more precisely, their eggs, which seem to release the factors that reduce red cells) would be eliminated, but his EPO would remain elevated. The situation is somewhat analogous to the reported use of carbon monoxide as a PED. CO inactivates Hb, resulting in a stimulation of EPO. Again, the effect is only temporary, but the idea is that while the effect is there, the athlete will get a boost.

Treatment for schistosomiasis involves a single treatment with praziquantel once a year. Since it must be given annually, I assume the drug does not completely eliminate the organism's eggs, but merely suppresses them to a very low level. Under these conditions, I can well imagine a situation in Froome's body in which he could get the benefit of continual EPO stimulation from low levels of the antigens produced by the eggs. I would be very interested to see what his passport looks like. Since he and Sky have been very open about the effect of the disease on red cells, they must have seen some very dramatic changes in their levels. It makes me wonder how they were able to define a baseline at all.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

I concluded that you have far too much time on your hands.

Perhaps a hobby is in order. Or is this it?

Yeah, that 5 minutes to draw a short map on g-map, take 2 screen shots and post was a huge time commitment on my part.

 

[Miburo]

There has been a lot of discussion about Contador's performance now that he is a vegetarian, but what about the difference in Schleckette's performance? He almost fell off his bike he was riding so slowly.

Is this what a clean Andy looks like?

Dave.

I was thinking about that too, but andy had a real bad year cause of other issues so i think it's too early to make any conclusions, wait for next year i guess.

 

[Galic Ho]

Theres also the Telegraph interview - link in the Media TDF thread where he states its every 6 months he takes medication for the Bilzharzia.

BUT although the Bilharzia is a good investigation it doesn't correlate with the fact that it is TEAM SKY who are all riding 'doped'.

Froome may just be taking more because he's prepared to take the risk of being caught.

Also - he IS looking very pale..which someone else pointed out. And the COUGHING was bad when he finished top of Montoux.

Whatever he's taking lots of - is affecting his lungs.

Considering I have had a cold for almost a week and severe cough since Friday from over exerting myself at the gym (30 minute RPM class where I flogged myself...dumb in retrospect) this is alarming.

So Froome was coughing at the end of the stage and he beat all those guys? Yeah, I know how that plays out in the normal world. It hits you hard. Really hard. I've had it happen before. It's enough to completely destroy your ability to breath at higher aerobic outputs, because the oxygen demand on your lungs is so high. That ain't normal. You wouldn't be able to exercise properly at all, much less ride a Grand Tour and beat everyone.

To do so would require some uber powerful drugs, lots of rest, no exertion and more drugs. Another thing to sell this Sky fable as totally *legit*.

The manner and type of cough does differ, but basically, from experience, if you get a bad cough, even a mild one, cycling is about the WORST idea one can do. You exert yourself, you make it worse. Body needs to heal. Needs TIME to fix itself. Oh but doing things naturally isn't the Sky way is it!

 

[No_Balls]

Lol

10 char

 

[martinvickers]

He is pretending to be anti doping yet for the last few years him and wiggo have treated the anti doping lobby like children, who you can insult and lie to comfortable in the knowledge that they don't have the power to respond.

What's the "anti-doping lobby"?

 

[BYOP88]

My feelings, too. (The Clinic, never, ever, had more than one Armstrong thread, right?).

Following up on that thread, here is another possibility to explain Froome's ET performance:

Schistosomiasis (Bilharzia) is known to result in a reduction of Hb/red cells. The mechanisms are still not clear, but probably there are several factors involved. Any reduction in red cells would trigger a homeostatic response in the body to increase EPO. So if Froome suffers from the disease, his natural EPO levels are getting a boost while he is symptomatic.

He supposedly has received treatment for the disease too keep it in check. Following treatment, his EPO and red cell levels should eventually stabilize. But during this period there would likely be a lag, in which the flatworms (or more precisely, their eggs, which seem to release the factors that reduce red cells) would be eliminated, but his EPO would remain elevated. The situation is somewhat analogous to the reported use of carbon monoxide as a PED. CO inactivates Hb, resulting in a stimulation of EPO. Again, the effect is only temporary, but the idea is that while the effect is there, the athlete will get a boost.

Treatment for schistosomiasis involves a single treatment with praziquantel once a year. Since it must be given annually, I assume the drug does not completely eliminate the organism's eggs, but merely suppresses them to a very low level. Under these conditions, I can well imagine a situation in Froome's body in which he could get the benefit of continual EPO stimulation from low levels of the antigens produced by the eggs. I would be very interested to see what his passport looks like. Since he and Sky have been very open about the effect of the disease on red cells, they must have seen some very dramatic changes in their levels. It makes me wonder how they were able to define a baseline at all.

Regarding his 'treatment' of Schistosomiasis, Froome and his GF say he takes a drug and it kills everything. So either he's being lied too and the drug doesn't or it's a convenient excuse to explain away any Bio-passport changes.

 

[murali]

Then why doesn't someone call his bluff? He's left himself pretty open there

Wouldn't take much for a group of journalists to get together and come up with some 'demands' to prove his innocence

That's the beauty of this technique. it leaves the work on others. As the opposition is diverse, they are never going to come to a consensus. Even if they do, they are not going to agree on whatever DB finally gives. And thhere will always be one section who will think DB has done enough, and another which will say tat DB wasn't open.

This approach of dealing with media is extremely popular with politicians, and it works everytime.

 

[murali]

Regarding his 'treatment' of Schistosomiasis, Froome and his GF says he takes a drug and it kills everything. So either he's being lied too and the drug doesn't or it's a convenient excuse to explain anyway on Bio-passport changes.

exactly what i thought about this story.

 

[The Hitch]

@Raiko200
Feeling the same way myself. I said it before, this thread reminds me of Seinfeld, because ít's a thread about nothing. And look at you, an objective person - 1 post. Look instead at some of this professors here: 8000 post, 14000, 11000, all full of essence. They must have an interesting life wasting their time with, as I said, nothing. This guys don't watch cycling. No. They keep an eye on TV and as soon as Froome attack, in 1 minute, we have 5 pages of ''looooool'', ''hilariooooooooooooooooous" etc. They do interactive cycling, something like Xbox Live, you know?

Give this guy a break until there is some proof, some news. If he is clean we must be happy for him and happy to see him 'live'.

It's amazing how many people who claimed to oppose Contador on anti doping grounds actually never gave a **** about doping.

 

[Taxus4a]

My feelings, too. (The Clinic, never, ever, had more than one Armstrong thread, right?).

Following up on that thread, here is another possibility to explain Froome's ET performance:

Schistosomiasis (Bilharzia) is known to result in a reduction of Hb/red cells. The mechanisms are still not clear, but probably there are several factors involved. Any reduction in red cells would trigger a homeostatic response in the body to increase EPO. So if Froome suffers from the disease, his natural EPO levels are getting a boost while he is symptomatic.

He supposedly has received treatment for the disease too keep it in check. Following treatment, his EPO and red cell levels should eventually stabilize. But during this period there would likely be a lag, in which the flatworms (or more precisely, their eggs, which seem to release the factors that reduce red cells) would be eliminated, but his EPO would remain elevated. The situation is somewhat analogous to the reported use of carbon monoxide as a PED. CO inactivates Hb, resulting in a stimulation of EPO. Again, the effect is only temporary, but the idea is that while the effect is there, the athlete will get a boost.

Treatment for schistosomiasis involves a single treatment with praziquantel once a year. Since it must be given annually, I assume the drug does not completely eliminate the organism's eggs, but merely suppresses them to a very low level. Under these conditions, I can well imagine a situation in Froome's body in which he could get the benefit of continual EPO stimulation from low levels of the antigens produced by the eggs. I would be very interested to see what his passport looks like. Since he and Sky have been very open about the effect of the disease on red cells, they must have seen some very dramatic changes in their levels. It makes me wonder how they were able to define a baseline at all.

I dont have any information that to treat bilharzia is necessary and less allowed for a pro cyclist to stimulate EPO.

If you have, put here that evidence.

My only evidence with Froome is that he has been doing since his first years in cycling test for a TDF podium, and that yerterday, with tailwind in Mont Ventoux, he was far away of the best times...with headwind...

 

[the sceptic]

I dont have any information that to treat bilharzia is necessary and less allowed for a pro cyclist to stimulate EPO.

If you have, put here that evidence.

My only evidence with Froome is that he has been doing since his first years in cycling test for a TDF podium, and that yerterday, with tailwind in Mont Ventoux, he was far away of the best times...with headwind...

How many times does that guy have to post his image of the flags ffs?

 

[cycladianpirate]

I was rather surprised that the new thread on Froome was closed. While this thread concentrates on the question of whether Froome is doping or not, the new thread asked the question how he is doping so effectively?

In some ways it was completely non-judgmental about Froome as an individual rider - i.e. if there all at it, how does Froome do so well? Some interesting theses were put forward (some, admittedly, a little 'left field').

I think it's a legitimate question to ask and goes beyond the pantomime "Oh yes he is!"...."Oh no he isn't!" exchanges that make up much of the clinic's discourse.

 

[Alphabet]

But that thread would get filled up by the same endless exchanges, too. I do agree that we could do with a separate thread to discuss what it is that makes him so good, but it'll just end up like this one. The Skybots derail every Sky related thread into threads where cleanliness is still up for debate.

 

[jamesmasters]

Schistosomiasis (Bilharzia) is known to result in a reduction of Hb/red cells. The mechanisms are still not clear, but probably there are several factors involved. Any reduction in red cells would trigger a homeostatic response in the body to increase EPO.

Please tell me you're making this up. I didn't know exactly what bilharzia was but are you seriously telling me that it boosts EPO levels?

'I'm not juiced, honest. I just have a blood disease which boosts my EPO levels.'

Tell me, when exactly did Froome develop this 'disease'?? About the same point when he suddenly turned into a cycling god, having done nothing whatsoever for the first half of his career?

 

[Galic Ho]

I was previously prepared to given Chris Froome the benefit of the doubt but my patience is all but gone. His performance today was unnatural. His acceleration from Contador where he pulled a near 100 metres advantage in 10 seconds was out of this world. It was 2/3 of the way up the mountain and must have been 7%+ gradient. I cannot recall any doped rider in history that has been able to replicate that kind of performance.

The final straw for me was his comments afterwards where he said that he thought he was going to have to concede defeat to Quintana. He said that he had talked to Quintana about working together and then to his surprise Quintana just dropped off. To me, not only did Froome look far stronger than Quintana, but i believe that he also put in a little bit of acceleration to escape Quintana. Consequently, I no longer believe him. I will no longer be falling for his apparent 'honesty' in his interviews.

After his first stage win last year, his lack of honesty was clear to me. He was practically giggling with glee over his power over Evans. Just couldn't hold it in.

He's just another fraud. Not even a well polished one. The clowns at Sky don't even know how to sell a myth. Very low IQ's among the whole bunch of them.

Every time I hear someone say they like his interview style I have almost had a good chuckle to myself. Why? It's been obvious The Dawg has no clue on how to make anything believable. His vocal intonation, mannerisms, his gaze, his entire physical performance on a bike, all of it is weakly sold.

Short story, the biggest joke doping wise I think pro cycling has ever seen. Makes Armstrong look tame. The arrogance and unfettered desire to get your 15 minutes of fame this guy must have to continually push the line beyond the believable is unprecedented! Even worse after what happened the last two years! Yeah, not a good role model for ANYONE, least of all clean cycling. Well except the Skybots. But he's an idol to them. Go figure!

 

[postmanhat]

Considering I have had a cold for almost a week and severe cough since Friday from over exerting myself at the gym (30 minute RPM class where I flogged myself...dumb in retrospect) this is alarming.

So Froome was coughing at the end of the stage and he beat all those guys? Yeah, I know how that plays out in the normal world. It hits you hard. Really hard. I've had it happen before. It's enough to completely destroy your ability to breath at higher aerobic outputs, because the oxygen demand on your lungs is so high. That ain't normal. You wouldn't be able to exercise properly at all, much less ride a Grand Tour and beat everyone.

To do so would require some uber powerful drugs, lots of rest, no exertion and more drugs. Another thing to sell this Sky fable as totally *legit*.

The manner and type of cough does differ, but basically, from experience, if you get a bad cough, even a mild one, cycling is about the WORST idea one can do. You exert yourself, you make it worse. Body needs to heal. Needs TIME to fix itself. Oh but doing things naturally isn't the Sky way is it!

Froome coughs during pretty much every post-race interview doesn't he?

Maybe he's just got a weak chest or something, like me. Even when I was super fit, doing triathlons, I used to cough like an 80 year old smoker afterwards.

Or maybe he's just doing that cough/bull**** thing, whenever the interviewer asks him a daft question

 

[McLovin]

It's amazing how many people who claimed to oppose Contador on anti doping grounds actually never gave a **** about doping.

Contador is a proved and convicted doper. Froome, not a single proof for now. My religion (christian) and especially my profession (lawyer) tells me not to throw stones to somebody until he is proved as a theft (professional speaking here). As for today Contador is a former theft and Froome is the yellow jersey in the centenary of the biggest sport event in the world.

 

[BYOP88]

Jeeez I've never seen so many lawyers in one place.

 

[Pentacycle]

Froome coughs during pretty much every post-race interview doesn't he?

Maybe he's just got a weak chest or something, like me. Even when I was super fit, doing triathlons, I used to cough like an 80 year old smoker afterwards.

Or maybe he's just doing that cough/bull**** thing, whenever the interviewer asks him a daft question

Coughing after heavy breathing in the final of a TdF is barely surprising, everyone should do it. I wonder why they haven't brought these things over to cycling:

For bringing moisturised air into the lungs post-race.

 

[batchuba]

Contador is a proved and convicted doper. Froome, not a single proof for now. My religion (christian) and especially my profession (lawyer) tells me not to throw stones to somebody until he is proved as a theft (professional speaking here). As for today Contador is a former theft and Froome is the yellow jersey in the centenary of the biggest sport event in the world.

Apparently you already believe in a magic being in the sky, which suggests you are quite susceptible to this kind of blind faith.

 

[Logic Al]

I was rather surprised that the new thread on Froome was closed. While this thread concentrates on the question of whether Froome is doping or not, the new thread asked the question how he is doping so effectively?

In some ways it was completely non-judgmental about Froome as an individual rider - i.e. if there all at it, how does Froome do so well? Some interesting theses were put forward (some, admittedly, a little 'left field').

I think it's a legitimate question to ask and goes beyond the pantomime "Oh yes he is!"...."Oh no he isn't!" exchanges that make up much of the clinic's discourse.

Yep that's why I started it

Tried to start the how's he doing it so well debate on this thread last week, got some good replies, then it got swallowed up and lost with the guilty/not guilty stuff

 

[therhodeo]

I cough after hard rides and used to cough after football games or track practices. I think the guys dirty but lets not be grasping at straws.