Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Dear Wiggo]

Froome on Alpe 'd"Huez in 2008. Does he really look all that different?

There is one major difference, and it's something I've been very confused about: why none of the pros seem to sweat when climbing. I sweat like a mofo anywhere, regardless of temp or wind.

I was looking for signs of sweating on Froome up Ventoux: nada.

 

[Stradebianche]

Leinders joined SKY in the winter of 2010,i can't find a specific month.That timeline might tally with diagnosis and treatment date though.

Froomes contract was renewed in September 2011 i think,it was after the Vuelta performance.

 

[python]

There is one major difference, and it's something I've been very confused about: why none of the pros seem to sweat when climbing. I sweat like a mofo anywhere, regardless of temp or wind.

I was looking for signs of sweating on Froome up Ventoux: nada.

wiggo, i generally respect your opinions and follow them when i can. but this post is, to put it politely, a wow when the effects of random photography and the physiology are intermixed

did you really expect a random photo to show you buckets of sweat or are you in doubt they DO sweat buckets ?

 

[The Hitch]

There is one major difference, and it's something I've been very confused about: why none of the pros seem to sweat when climbing. I sweat like a mofo anywhere, regardless of temp or wind.

I was looking for signs of sweating on Froome up Ventoux: nada.

You are seriously jeoperdising the credibility of any post you give with stuff like that.

Of course they sweat. Bucket loads. The fact that you cant see it on tv doesn't mean anything

 

[northstar]

Look up the treatment of bilhazia - it's just a single dose of praziquantel. Some species of Schistosomes require a second dose on the same day, but most just need one. I would guess that a few East African olympic middle/long distance running champions had it without any concerns on their performance. This is a red herring!

I think treatments vary depending on the severity of the infection. With some infected people, a single dose or one course of praziquantel will kill all the parasites. With others, it may take many treatments, over many years, to completely rid the body of the parasites and their eggs.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Also: VO2max is not as important as the % of VO2max you can sustain for extended periods of time.

Which is as important as your ability to recover between efforts in a stage and between stages, as well as consume calories on the bike.

 

[maxmartin]

God, why this sounds so like LA's cancer chem therapy

Here’s how Froome described Biltricide, the bilharzia treatment he underwent in early 2012: ”It’s a very strong pill. It basically kills everything in your system, and hopefully at the same time, kills the parasite. It’s something that I have to try to get rid of it. You cannot train when you’re taking that. The treatment is pretty rough stuff. I have had a bit of a slow start to the season. There was more than a week when I could not even touch the bike.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...e-still-treated-for-bilharzia-parasite_295548

 

[northstar]

didn't find that. could you post a link?

I believe it is more usually around a week's course of Biltricide tablets (although Froome said he took it for two weeks in Mar/Apr 12 for eg) to enable the parasites to be digested by the body.

Also, corticosteroids can be recommended to alleviate the side-effects of the digestion when severe.

Here's the link Velonews Sept. 15, 2011

"VN: Have you been successfully treated for it?
CF: I had to re-do the treatment after the Tour de Suisse this year. Since then, I have been a lot more consistent and good in my training."

 

[Dear Wiggo]

wiggo, i generally respect your opinions and follow them when i can. but this post is, to put it politely, a wow when the effects of random photography and the physiology are intermixed

did you really expect a random photo to show you buckets of sweat or are you in doubt they DO sweat buckets ?

specifically: in the barloworld photo, he is sweating.

On Ventoux, there was the smallest patch on his numbers, as the moto camera zoomed in on his number towards the top of Ventoux.

When they do closeups of rider's faces, I am looking for it, and it's not there. Quintana had the lightest patina on his upper lip, as they zoomed in on his face, also towards the top of the climb.

If it were me, there would be a river flowing behind me.

Before you all go nuts calling my integrity into question, please do likewise, check the next facial (and arms) closeup of Froome - there's mountains coming and unless disaster strikes his face will be there all the time.

I am not saying he does not sweat, just I have not seen it. And certainly compared to that Barloworld photo above, nowhere near as much as he did there.

Which would indicate to me he has less fat and muscle now than he did in that pic.

It's a theory, I do not mean this to sound like I am stating a fact.

 

[patswana]

I believe it is more usually around a week's course of Biltricide tablets (although Froome said he took it for two weeks in Mar/Apr 12 for eg) to enable the parasites to be digested by the body..

From UpToDate: Dose — S. haematobium, S. mansoni, and S. intercalatum infections can be treated with 40 mg/kg of praziquantel in one or two doses, whereas the recommended dose for S. japonicum and S. mekongi is 60 mg/kg in two or three doses at least three hours apart

I am a specialist in tropical medicine and I regularly treat patients with bilhazia.

The symptoms of long term bilhazia are predominantly due to scarring - e.g., around the liver or the bladder. Praziquantel stops further scarring but does not repair old scarring. Thus treatment just stops you getting worse.

 

[patswana]

I think treatments vary depending on the severity of the infection. With some infected people, a single dose or one course of praziquantel will kill all the parasites. With others, it may take many treatments, over many years, to completely rid the body of the parasites and their eggs.

Not true. See the above post.

 

[patswana]

God, why this sounds so like LA's cancer chem therapy

Here’s how Froome described Biltricide, the bilharzia treatment he underwent in early 2012: ”It’s a very strong pill. It basically kills everything in your system, and hopefully at the same time, kills the parasite. It’s something that I have to try to get rid of it. You cannot train when you’re taking that. The treatment is pretty rough stuff. I have had a bit of a slow start to the season. There was more than a week when I could not even touch the bike.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...e-still-treated-for-bilharzia-parasite_295548

Again, from UpToDate: Adverse effects of praziquantel are generally mild, but occur in approximately one-third of patients. Side effects include dizziness, headache, vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea, and pruritus. These symptoms may be partly related to the drug itself and partly related to host immune responses to dying parasites. Some data suggest that there may a correlation between the severity of adverse events and the intensity of infection.

The patients I give it to generally feel a bit nauseated and dizzy for a day or two but that is it.

 

[Stradebianche]

Not true. See the above post.

So the quote from Brailsford at the bottom of this article is misinformed ?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...e-still-treated-for-bilharzia-parasite_295548

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It's a theory, I do not mean this to sound like I am stating a fact.

Ok looking at some youtube footage in HD, seems the light in the photos needs to be taken more into account, and the barloworld lighting enhances the sheen of sweat, whereas a lot of the video work on the Ventoux stage had the sunlight behind, so face, arms and legs are in shadow.

I sit corrected. Was the first stage I watched and was not paying a lot of attention.

I did see a small sweat patch on Froome's race numbers towards the top (maybe once he left Quintana behind?), but again, may have been split gel packet or something.

 

[mudbone]

Here's the link...

ah yes, thanks, missed that mention there. fills in the 2011 blank, and fits in ~six months after diagnosis. So we now have;


2009/2010 - Contraction

"I probably had it for year before I found it." (Sep '11)
"I found it 18 months ago and they had probably been in my system for a year before that." (May '12)

Dec 2010 - Diagnosis (and presumably Treatment)

"Bilharzia – it’s a water-borne disease, which I found that I had it in December last year." (Sep '11)
"I kept getting sick so something wasn't right. I'd gone to Kenya to see family and did the normal UCI blood passport tests. At the same time I said to the doctor, 'Can't you scan for anything that's not right in my blood?' He came back straight away and said you're riddled with bilharzia." (Jan '13)

Jul 2011 - Treatment

"I had to re-do the treatment after the Tour de Suisse this year. Since then, I have been a lot more consistent and good in my training." (Sep '11)

March/April 2012 - Treatment

"I took the treatment three weeks ago and I've got to wait six months to see if it's still active or not." (May '12)

“The bilharzia is not totally cleared up. I did repeat the treatment about three months ago in March. I am clear for now. I need to go check again in August-September." (Jul '12)

“I had a two week treatment in April last year, and have since been clear of the parasite. I have it checked every six months to make sure it hasn't returned.” (Dec '12)

January 2013 - Check-Up (and inferred Treatment)

”I do go for a check-up every six months. The last was in January and it was still in my system. I take Biltricide. It kills the parasite in the system.” (Jul '13)

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Amazing interview about Froome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RkrdqJHQHxs#at=80

 

[bewildered]

Leinders joined SKY in the winter of 2010,i can't find a specific month.That timeline might tally with diagnosis and treatment date though.

Froomes contract was renewed in September 2011 i think,it was after the Vuelta performance.

Thanks. So from Mudbone's timeline:-

Nov/Dec 2009 ('probably') contracts Bilharzia
Winter 2010 Leinders joins Sky
Dec 2010 Bilharzia diagnosed (and presumably treated)
First half of 2011 gradual improvement in results, contract renewal uncertain
Aug/Sept 2011 Vuelta dramatic improvement
Sept 2011 Contract renewed and Bilharzia first disclosed to public (?)

When did it become public knowledge that Leinders had joined Sky?

 

[victorschipolrijk]

From UpToDate: Dose — S. haematobium, S. mansoni, and S. intercalatum infections can be treated with 40 mg/kg of praziquantel in one or two doses, whereas the recommended dose for S. japonicum and S. mekongi is 60 mg/kg in two or three doses at least three hours apart

I am a specialist in tropical medicine and I regularly treat patients with bilhazia.

The symptoms of long term bilhazia are predominantly due to scarring - e.g., around the liver or the bladder. Praziquantel stops further scarring but does not repair old scarring. Thus treatment just stops you getting worse.

You could be a specialist of tropical diseases , but you can't write bilharzia properly , and you did it twice .

Before going to college , you have to go through grammar school , don't you????

 

[Taxus4a]

ah yes, thanks, missed that mention there. fills in the 2011 blank, and fits in ~six months after diagnosis. So we now have;


2009/2010 - Contraction

"I probably had it for year before I found it." (Sep '11)
"I found it 18 months ago and they had probably been in my system for a year before that." (May '12)

I wrote in my article already about that.
The most likely date for that is 2008 or 2009, so you are not well informed, or at least you are not up to date.

The rest is ok. But anyway there is a lot more to say about that disease to clarify why he was so long time wuthout a diagnosis, andn did not realize.
And it is normal not realize.

 

[northstar]

ah yes, thanks, missed that mention there. fills in the 2011 blank, and fits in ~six months after diagnosis. So we now have;


2009/2010 - Contraction

"I probably had it for year before I found it." (Sep '11)
"I found it 18 months ago and they had probably been in my system for a year before that." (May '12)

Dec 2010 - Diagnosis (and presumably Treatment)

"Bilharzia – it’s a water-borne disease, which I found that I had it in December last year." (Sep '11)
"I kept getting sick so something wasn't right. I'd gone to Kenya to see family and did the normal UCI blood passport tests. At the same time I said to the doctor, 'Can't you scan for anything that's not right in my blood?' He came back straight away and said you're riddled with bilharzia." (Jan '13)

Jul 2011 - Treatment

"I had to re-do the treatment after the Tour de Suisse this year. Since then, I have been a lot more consistent and good in my training." (Sep '11)

March/April 2012 - Treatment

"I took the treatment three weeks ago and I've got to wait six months to see if it's still active or not." (May '12)

“The bilharzia is not totally cleared up. I did repeat the treatment about three months ago in March. I am clear for now. I need to go check again in August-September." (Jul '12)

“I had a two week treatment in April last year, and have since been clear of the parasite. I have it checked every six months to make sure it hasn't returned.” (Dec '12)

January 2013 - Check-Up (and inferred Treatment)

”I do go for a check-up every six months. The last was in January and it was still in my system. I take Biltricide. It kills the parasite in the system.” (Jul '13)

Here's a quote from Froome confirming his treatment in Jan. 2013 theguardian Jan. 25, 2013

"In terms of that illness, I actually went for a check 10 days ago and found out that I did have to repeat the treatment again," he said. "It means these big pills that basically poison you and kill everything in your stomach and I took that in the last week. I am feeling much better now and hopefully I am in the clear for another six months or so."

 

[victorschipolrijk]

Some journalist ought to ask Froome about his TUEs , how many he's got , and what they are .

They are claiming they want to be transparent , then they have to come clean with Froome's TUEs .

 

[Balabar]

Again, from UpToDate: Adverse effects of praziquantel are generally mild, but occur in approximately one-third of patients. Side effects include dizziness, headache, vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea, and pruritus. These symptoms may be partly related to the drug itself and partly related to host immune responses to dying parasites. Some data suggest that there may a correlation between the severity of adverse events and the intensity of infection.

The patients I give it to generally feel a bit nauseated and dizzy for a day or two but that is it.

Is it common to need periodic re-treatment with praziquantel? Can the parasites go 'dormant' and then return? Or does a single treatment regimen completely rid the body of the parasites?

 

[mudbone]

From UpToDate: Dose — S. haematobium, S. mansoni, and S. intercalatum infections can be treated with 40 mg/kg of praziquantel in one or two doses, whereas the recommended dose for S. japonicum and S. mekongi is 60 mg/kg in two or three doses at least three hours apart

I am a specialist in tropical medicine and I regularly treat patients with bilhazia.

The symptoms of long term bilhazia are predominantly due to scarring - e.g., around the liver or the bladder. Praziquantel stops further scarring but does not repair old scarring. Thus treatment just stops you getting worse.

sounds like you'd know much more than me on the treatment then

the quote i was referring to however was, "I had a two week treatment in April last year, and have since been clear of the parasite.” from an interview in Dec 12.

 

[Balabar]

You could be a specialist of tropical diseases , but you can't write bilharzia properly , and you did it twice .

Before going to college , you have to go through grammar school , don't you????

Before you criticize someone's grammar, you should learn how to use punctuation.

 

[Taxus4a]

The performance of the riders in the race is the single best piece of evidence.

Riding up Ventoux as fast as only known dopers have ridden when they were known to be doping is the most solid sort of evidence I can imagine.

It's like how I know my neighbor smokes weed even though he is not in prison. I can smell it.

that is not true.
He was far of the dopers, and the wind was different that ussual.
And you must know that the real champions go close to the dopers, as Sastre or Evans did.