Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Not working out so well is it

50/50. Some good theories here, but also a lot of crap. The race is still open. Until now i was somewhat able to counter the arguments. But i admit sometimes it´s very tough to find the right words.

Froome hasn't even won a GT yet and many people are convinced the clown is a doper. This isn't the stone age, information travels faster these days.

But go ahead and place you money on Froome winning the TdF in 2016, I'm sure somebody will take your call.

Not so fast here. Our conversation was if Froome will be caught inside the next three years....
I would be crazy to bet on a 2016 TdF victor. I have no idea who will win then (that includes Froome).

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

I heared that too. But still records were broken in the DAU. It wasn´t until the "blood era" that cyclists were also rans during the season, and then boom shattering the world at the TdF. In this case AC was unable to drop Braj, and then bombing him away by 83 minutes in the TdF. Not normal!

You're unbeliavable.

This is an also ran?

1st overall classification Volta ao Algarve

1st Stage 3

1st overall classification Paris–Nice

1st Stage 4

1st overall classification Vuelta a Castilla y León

1st combination classification
1st Spanish rider classification
1st Stage 4 (ITT)

2nd overall classification Critérium du Dauphiné

1st Winner points classification
1st Prologue (ITT) & Stage 6

3rd La Flèche Wallonne

Compared to:

Tour of Cali

66 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling 0:40:46

Tour de Suisse

47 Chris Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling 0:42:30

Tour of Poland

85 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling 0:26:18

Now that's doing nothing all season and then turning into a world beater overnight.

You know what else didn't happen before the "blood era"? 26-year olds with zero results in stage races did not suddenly start climbing like a grand tour podium finisher in the blood transfusion era of 2002-2007.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

You're unbeliavable.

This is an also ran?



Compared to:



Now that's doing nothing all season and then turning into a world beater overnight.

You know what else didn't happen before the "blood era"? 26-year olds with zero results in stage races did not suddenly start climbing like a grand tour podium finisher in the blood transfusion era of 2002-2007.

Also ran was a little out of hand. My mistake. Still he "found" 83 mins on Braj in 3 weeks... and finally got caught.

26 is borderline. But we had much worse outcomes (Rijs, LA, Rominger, Wiggins, to name a few)...

 

[Ferminal]

I knew that Contador went on a doping hiatus in 2008 because of the passport introduction...

 

[victorschipolrijk]

So what? Jerry Rice and Bo Jackson had 2%...

2% body fat??

You are a little confused man, there is not a single football player with a body fat lower than 4%.

Jerry Rice, when in top shape, used to have about 5%.

Bo Jackson 7% when in top shape.

2% is famine territory.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

2% body fat??

You are a little confused man, there is not a single football player with a body fat lower than 4%.

Jerry Rice, when in top shape, used to have about 5%.

Bo Jackson 7% when in top shape.

2% is famine territory.

Sure i am seriously confused now b/c of 2, 4 or 5%. Man this is 20 years ago. What´s the matter? You remember correctly George Brett´s Avg. in 1980? Was it .379, .390, or .397? It doesn´t matter. The point is driven home: He was awesome that year...

Same goes with the Froome point. It´s not unheared of very low body fat. I think i drove home my point.

 

[Ripper]

Useful, thanks.

Got anything of any substance to contribute?

Right back at ya, you big poster person!

You seem to be the one getting all testy.

 

[Ripper]

So no answer to my earlier question? Why would WADA getting all the teams data be a bad thing?

I think WADA getting all team data would not be a bad thing at all. I also think some data from all teams should be made public.

Of course, I might wonder how WADA would get its funding

 

[Ripper]

Evidence suggesting he is doping is different from evidence that he is doping. Most posts here take the latter stance. I can agree with the first but not the second.
There is speculation based on assumptions that is being presented as fact and used as evidence of doping.
In response to claims of times the same as known dopers somebody asked if the circumstances were the same for both rides, a deafening silence has greeted that question.
There are undoubtably questions to be asked and it appears that to an extent they are being asked more then in the armstrong era. It is interesting to note however that David Walsh is now being questioned / doubted as it appears he is not delviering the verdict at present that the clinic appear to want.
Maybe he will in time.

Well most posters post opinions almost like they are facts, somewhat like lawyers. Welcome to forum style of discussions. This said, cycling is a sport and pro cycling is additionally, entertainment. So in the end, the market, the fans, can speculate and demand all they want.

 

[sittingbison]

...Back to the Froome stuff...

good decision

...he might well be doping, why would delivering the team data to WADA be a bad thing?

the "bad thing" is if Dawg IS doping, there is no guarantee SKY would provide ALL the data to WADA, merely cooked books. Lets be clear about this, its a publicity stunt. WADA is not there to proclaim athletes clean.

It is impossible to prove innocence. WADA could not proclaim Dawgs "cleanliness" only to have him possibly fail a test in the future.

 

[nevada]

Can someone on here explain what program Froome is on ?

 

[el chava]

Telmisartan ?

Some studies show similar effects to Aicar etc but its not on the banned list afaik.Technically clean if not morally.

What's doping is arbitrary. It is what's on the current WADA list, no more no less. Morally clean? - I won't go into that discussion. Morals and sport don't mix, really.

Sorry to derail thread..

 

[sittingbison]

Can someone on here explain what program Froome is on ?

In Australia Dawg is on the program called "Tour de France Live"....on SBS

Not sure about other countries

 

[42x16ss]

Can someone on here explain what program Froome is on ?

A potent one.

 

[karlboss]

One theory is that teams get around the biopassport by gradual changes, each small non suspicious improvement resets parameters upwards. The fewer tests there are the bigger these gains can be. Froome, after his red blood cell eating disease, had a free pass to establish a high baseline. He's not much better now than he was in 2011 or 2012, but in 2011 he was loads better than in 2009, or 2010 when he was ill.

 

[bewildered]

Sky have apparently given L'Equipe the 'last 2 years of Froome's power files' for Fred Grappe to analyse, according to RR on Twitter. Not sure if it includes this year's TDF. Headline in L'Equipe today 'Froome, Le Dossier'

 

[Ferminal]

Yeh, did they hand over every SRM file or did he just get a "presentation"?

 

[bewildered]

One theory is that teams get around the biopassport by gradual changes, each small non suspicious improvement resets parameters upwards. The fewer tests there are the bigger these gains can be. Froome, after his red blood cell eating disease, had a free pass to establish a high baseline. He's not much better now than he was in 2011 or 2012, but in 2011 he was loads better than in 2009, or 2010 when he was ill.

And Froome is on the record as saying that the Passport testers discovered his Bilharzia when they tested him in Kenya in late 2010. He said he asked them to as he hadn't been feeling well all that year, so presumably his baseline blood values were very low then.

 

[spalco]

Sky have apparently given L'Equipe the 'last 2 years of Froome's power files' for Fred Grappe to analyse, according to RR on Twitter. Not sure if it includes this year's TDF. Headline in L'Equipe today 'Froome, Le Dossier'

I'm more interested in the Bud Spencer story below the fold, but apparently that's not available online without paying.

 

[Cimber]

Data goes from Vuelta 11 to now and all show consistant data since then (i.e. normal), but imo the most interesting thing would be to see data before Vuelta 11 too. See what happened when he went from nothing to something. So give data 3 years back please

 

[Ferminal]

I'm pretty happy with this though, I thought the 40 minute barrier was off the cards but some good morning PR should be encouraging for him.

 

[Ferminal]

500 tests!

http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=64074

Not that you doubt it, one drawback of leading/winning so many races.

 

[Mr.38%]

The PR stunt in L'Equipe will be not worth the paper...

Obviously Vroome became the freak we are looking at today exactly 2 years ago. So please include all available data since he joined SKY.

No VO²Max tests? Really? Scientific methods Ferrari style with Kerrison waiting atop Madone, yeah right! Mood light, pillows and aerodynamic uphill sprinting.

The SKY spin machine makes HHSNBN look like a school boy. Orchestrated down to the last detail - if it wasn't for all those contradictions and faulty timelines.

 

[Lanark]

Do they give the measured W/kg on the major climbs? Would be interesting to know how accurate the estimations were.

 

[bewildered]

Do they give the measured W/kg on the major climbs? Would be interesting to know how accurate the estimations were.

I haven't read the article, but RR later tweeted that the power outputs were within 2.5% of Grappe's estimates, so the 'pseudo-scientists' weren't far-off. He also says the story is not heavy on detail but the CF's weight has been within 900g for 2 years