Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[blackcat]

Nibali deserved it last year and demonstrated why he could win Roubaix also if he wanted to ride Flanders and Roubaix with the preparation and goal to win them. he was simply imperious. descending, climbing, cobbles. guy was the boss last year.

 

[harryh]

Re:

Is this 7 w/kg legit? That's insane

lolnope. https://twitter.com/lapreuvepar21

 

[Saint Unix]

Re: Re:

Is this 7 w/kg legit? That's insane

lolnope. https://twitter.com/lapreuvepar21

Where did 425 watts come from?

If that's the actual power, it needs to be divided by what Froome says he weighs, which is between 67 and 68 kgs, not 70.

425W/67,5kg = ~6,3W/kg

Which is absolutely insane.

 

[gazr99]

Re: Re:

Is this 7 w/kg legit? That's insane

lolnope. https://twitter.com/lapreuvepar21

Where did 425 watts come from?

If that's the actual power, it needs to be divided by what Froome says he weighs, which is between 67 and 68 kgs, not 70.

425W/67,5kg = ~6,3W/kg

Which is absolutely insane.

425 is a definite guess, probably looking at Robert Gesink's KOM for the climb on Strava, where he came 5th and averaged 409w.

6.3 is very, very impressive but not extraordinary

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

Is this 7 w/kg legit? That's insane

lolnope. https://twitter.com/lapreuvepar21

Where did 425 watts come from?

If that's the actual power, it needs to be divided by what Froome says he weighs, which is between 67 and 68 kgs, not 70.

425W/67,5kg = ~6,3W/kg

Which is absolutely insane.

No one here knows what Froome weighs.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

Is this 7 w/kg legit? That's insane

lolnope. https://twitter.com/lapreuvepar21

Where did 425 watts come from?

If that's the actual power, it needs to be divided by what Froome says he weighs, which is between 67 and 68 kgs, not 70.

425W/67,5kg = ~6,3W/kg

Which is absolutely insane.

425 is a definite guess, probably looking at Robert Gesink's KOM for the climb on Strava, where he came 5th and averaged 409w.

6.3 is very, very impressive but not extraordinary

"Extraordinary" is completely subjective. Can you clarify? Do you think anyone could do that clean? If you do, do you think Froome is that "extraordinary" specimen who could do it clean? Why?

 

[Saint Unix]

Re: Re:

No one here knows what Froome weighs.

I saw something on Twitter about Froome saying he weighs 67 or 68kgs depending on "fuelling".

If I had to eyeball it, I'd say sub-65kg, but guesswork won't get us anywhere, so I'll go by what I've read instead.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Is this 7 w/kg legit? That's insane

lolnope. https://twitter.com/lapreuvepar21

Where did 425 watts come from?

If that's the actual power, it needs to be divided by what Froome says he weighs, which is between 67 and 68 kgs, not 70.

425W/67,5kg = ~6,3W/kg

Which is absolutely insane.

No one here knows what Froome weighs.

Not even Team Sky knows Froome's weight!

 

[Saint Unix]

Re: Re:

6.3 is very, very impressive but not extraordinary

That depends entirely on the length of the climb. For 40 minutes, I'd say 6,3 is pretty extraordinary.

 

[gazr99]

Re: Re:

Is this 7 w/kg legit? That's insane

lolnope. https://twitter.com/lapreuvepar21

Where did 425 watts come from?

If that's the actual power, it needs to be divided by what Froome says he weighs, which is between 67 and 68 kgs, not 70.

425W/67,5kg = ~6,3W/kg

Which is absolutely insane.

425 is a definite guess, probably looking at Robert Gesink's KOM for the climb on Strava, where he came 5th and averaged 409w.

6.3 is very, very impressive but not extraordinary

"Extraordinary" is completely subjective. Can you clarify? Do you think anyone could do that clean? If you do, do you think Froome is that "extraordinary" specimen who could do it clean? Why?

I would say a GC rider on top form (Froome, Contador, Quintana, Nibali), sitting in the wheels until the last 20 minutes could do that. He had what one big acceleration then rode tempo up the climb.

Based it on this http://www.fredericgrappe.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/pinot-ppr.pdf

If you see Froome as a superior climber to 2013 Pinot, it's easy to see 6.3 as possible

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

No one here knows what Froome weighs.

I saw something on Twitter about Froome saying he weighs 67 or 68kgs depending on "fuelling".

If I had to eyeball it, I'd say sub-65kg, but guesswork won't get us anywhere, so I'll go by what I've read instead.

Seems to me it's historically one of the most lied-about (and that's saying something) topic which teams discuss. Certainly when it's ever stated, it's done as the check-in weight at the start of the Tour. Which of course is higher than it will be a week or three into the race.

Not even Team Sky knows Froome's weight!

Good one.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

I would say a GC rider on top form (Froome, Contador, Quintana, Nibali), sitting in the wheels until the last 20 minutes could do that. He had what one big acceleration then rode tempo up the climb.

Based it on this http://www.fredericgrappe.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/pinot-ppr.pdf

If you see Froome as a superior climber to 2013 Pinot, it's easy to see 6.3 as possible

Thanks, makes sense. We are talking about a 40 minute climb though. My feeling is that this is at the edge or over what's humanly possible, if you don't take fatigue, weather conditions, how the stage was raced, and assume a rider at the very end of the human scale.

Froome was not that rider pre-Vuelta 2011, so it's not possible in my view that he's that rider on the end of the scale. He was a rider with no contract and wasn't even selected for the race, initially. He was a scrub.

And since you need to take fatigue, stage tactics, weather etc. into consideration, I don't see how it's possible for anyone...clean.

 

[Benotti69]

LeMond repeats calls for greater transparency in the sport

LeMond is saying Sky need to release the data for transparency and that it all sounds a bit Armstrong..........

LeMond said that he would like to see the individuals in the sport offering up more data, with VO2 Max – a measure of maximal oxygen capacity – one of the most important.

“I think that the problem is – and this is not to critique Brailsford or anybody at Sky – but when you hear talk of marginal gains, this is kind of what Armstrong used in the past. That brings up a little bit of sensitivity.

“When I hear that some teams have got some magical formula, sleeping better, it does make a difference. As a team directing the riders who are trying to recover, I understand that. But to say that is the reason for really high performance…it doesn’t make that much of a difference.”

So sky need to show with data these guys are the super naturally talented guys that they perform like, because the so called marginal gains is not making that much of a difference, according to LeMond.

LeMond is not calling Sky or Froome dopers, but is calling for transparency. It is hopeful..but Sky wont release the data to a truly independent source.

 

[harryh]

Re: Re:

Is this 7 w/kg legit? That's insane

lolnope. https://twitter.com/lapreuvepar21

Where did 425 watts come from?

If that's the actual power, it needs to be divided by what Froome says he weighs, which is between 67 and 68 kgs, not 70.

425W/67,5kg = ~6,3W/kg

Which is absolutely insane.

425 is a definite guess, probably looking at Robert Gesink's KOM for the climb on Strava, where he came 5th and averaged 409w.

6.3 is very, very impressive but not extraordinary

First mountain stage, right after the first rest day, pan flat until PSM. So more like a well paced mountain TTT/ITT, assisted by Movistar, where Froome pulled last ~15 mins. Yes, impressive but not extraordinary IMO.

 

[gazr99]

Re:

LeMond repeats calls for greater transparency in the sport

LeMond is saying Sky need to release the data for transparency and that it all sounds a bit Armstrong..........

LeMond said that he would like to see the individuals in the sport offering up more data, with VO2 Max – a measure of maximal oxygen capacity – one of the most important.

“I think that the problem is – and this is not to critique Brailsford or anybody at Sky – but when you hear talk of marginal gains, this is kind of what Armstrong used in the past. That brings up a little bit of sensitivity.

“When I hear that some teams have got some magical formula, sleeping better, it does make a difference. As a team directing the riders who are trying to recover, I understand that. But to say that is the reason for really high performance…it doesn’t make that much of a difference.”

So sky need to show with data these guys are the super naturally talented guys that they perform like, because the so called marginal gains is not making that much of a difference, according to LeMond.

LeMond is not calling Sky or Froome dopers, but is calling for transparency. It is hopeful..but Sky wont release the data to a truly independent source.

Apparently Brailsford is thinking about doing this tomorrow?

If Sky did this and all it does is support their argument of being clean, will this actually change the opinion of anyone who believes that they are doping? Doubt it

 

[Benotti69]

vein city

https://twitter.com/LoisHorwitz/status/623172973772419072

............

 

[Ventoux Boar]

Re: Re:

I would say a GC rider on top form (Froome, Contador, Quintana, Nibali), sitting in the wheels until the last 20 minutes could do that. He had what one big acceleration then rode tempo up the climb.

Based it on this http://www.fredericgrappe.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/pinot-ppr.pdf

If you see Froome as a superior climber to 2013 Pinot, it's easy to see 6.3 as possible

Thanks, makes sense. We are talking about a 40 minute climb though. My feeling is that this is at the edge or over what's humanly possible, if you don't take fatigue, weather conditions, how the stage was raced, and assume a rider at the very end of the human scale.

Froome was not that rider pre-Vuelta 2011, so it's not possible in my view that he's that rider on the end of the scale. He was a rider with no contract and wasn't even selected for the race, initially. He was a scrub.

And since you need to take fatigue, stage tactics, weather etc. into consideration, I don't see how it's possible for anyone...clean.

It's possible for a human called Thibaud Pinot. But not one called Chris Froome. Is that what you are saying?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

LeMond is saying Sky need to release the data for transparency and that it all sounds a bit Armstrong..........

LeMond said that he would like to see the individuals in the sport offering up more data, with VO2 Max – a measure of maximal oxygen capacity – one of the most important.

Interestingly, Nairo Quintana's published his VO2Max. Froome has allegedly never done a test.

NO STONE LEFT UNTURNED.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

LeMond repeats calls for greater transparency in the sport

LeMond is saying Sky need to release the data for transparency and that it all sounds a bit Armstrong..........

LeMond said that he would like to see the individuals in the sport offering up more data, with VO2 Max – a measure of maximal oxygen capacity – one of the most important.

“I think that the problem is – and this is not to critique Brailsford or anybody at Sky – but when you hear talk of marginal gains, this is kind of what Armstrong used in the past. That brings up a little bit of sensitivity.

“When I hear that some teams have got some magical formula, sleeping better, it does make a difference. As a team directing the riders who are trying to recover, I understand that. But to say that is the reason for really high performance…it doesn’t make that much of a difference.”

So sky need to show with data these guys are the super naturally talented guys that they perform like, because the so called marginal gains is not making that much of a difference, according to LeMond.

LeMond is not calling Sky or Froome dopers, but is calling for transparency. It is hopeful..but Sky wont release the data to a truly independent source.

Apparently Brailsford is thinking about doing this tomorrow?

If Sky did this and all it does is support their argument of being clean, will this actually change the opinion of anyone who believes that they are doping? Doubt it

Brailsford needs to be able to show the data is Froomes and not tampered with. You know the ol machine calibration error...... Also needs to release the vo2max Froome did at UCI, also release pre '11 Vuelta data.

Then let the sports scientists at it.

But whatever will be released will not tell the story, it will be to say, we released the data and still it wasn't enough.....

If Froome was this naturally talented and clean they would've done this after 2013 TdF win.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

LeMond is saying Sky need to release the data for transparency and that it all sounds a bit Armstrong..........

LeMond said that he would like to see the individuals in the sport offering up more data, with VO2 Max – a measure of maximal oxygen capacity – one of the most important.

Interestingly, Nairo Quintana's published his VO2Max. Froome has allegedly never done a test.

NO STONE LEFT UNTURNED.

Interesting how LeMond places huge emphasis on Vo2max and JVs team no longer test for it (well according to JV)....

Maybe Vo2max is only relevant to clean riders.......

 

[gazr99]

Re: Re:

LeMond repeats calls for greater transparency in the sport

LeMond is saying Sky need to release the data for transparency and that it all sounds a bit Armstrong..........

LeMond said that he would like to see the individuals in the sport offering up more data, with VO2 Max – a measure of maximal oxygen capacity – one of the most important.

“I think that the problem is – and this is not to critique Brailsford or anybody at Sky – but when you hear talk of marginal gains, this is kind of what Armstrong used in the past. That brings up a little bit of sensitivity.

“When I hear that some teams have got some magical formula, sleeping better, it does make a difference. As a team directing the riders who are trying to recover, I understand that. But to say that is the reason for really high performance…it doesn’t make that much of a difference.”

So sky need to show with data these guys are the super naturally talented guys that they perform like, because the so called marginal gains is not making that much of a difference, according to LeMond.

LeMond is not calling Sky or Froome dopers, but is calling for transparency. It is hopeful..but Sky wont release the data to a truly independent source.

Apparently Brailsford is thinking about doing this tomorrow?

If Sky did this and all it does is support their argument of being clean, will this actually change the opinion of anyone who believes that they are doping? Doubt it

Brailsford needs to be able to show the data is Froomes and not tampered with. You know the ol machine calibration error...... Also needs to release the vo2max Froome did at UCI, also release pre '11 Vuelta data.

Then let the sports scientists at it.

But whatever will be released will not tell the story, it will be to say, we released the data and still it wasn't enough.....

If Froome was this naturally talented and clean they would've done this after 2013 TdF win.

Take that as a no

To be honest I would expect his VO2 to be much higher than pre 2011 Vuelta. 1) He had that parasite disease that affected him all 2011, which as we don't hear about it anymore I presume is gone. 2) Now he's a GC contender his training will have undoubtedly improved/increased 3) He now has several years of racing for wins in grand tours under his belt

 

[Ventoux Boar]

Re: Re:

I would say a GC rider on top form (Froome, Contador, Quintana, Nibali), sitting in the wheels until the last 20 minutes could do that. He had what one big acceleration then rode tempo up the climb.

Based it on this http://www.fredericgrappe.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/pinot-ppr.pdf

If you see Froome as a superior climber to 2013 Pinot, it's easy to see 6.3 as possible

Am I reading the table correctly? It says Pinot's 60 min power in 2013 was 5.7 w/kg. Froome on Ventoux, widely described as mutant and convincing evidence of doping, was 5.7 w/kg (388w).

There must be some mistake?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

LeMond repeats calls for greater transparency in the sport

LeMond is saying Sky need to release the data for transparency and that it all sounds a bit Armstrong..........

LeMond said that he would like to see the individuals in the sport offering up more data, with VO2 Max – a measure of maximal oxygen capacity – one of the most important.

“I think that the problem is – and this is not to critique Brailsford or anybody at Sky – but when you hear talk of marginal gains, this is kind of what Armstrong used in the past. That brings up a little bit of sensitivity.

“When I hear that some teams have got some magical formula, sleeping better, it does make a difference. As a team directing the riders who are trying to recover, I understand that. But to say that is the reason for really high performance…it doesn’t make that much of a difference.”

So sky need to show with data these guys are the super naturally talented guys that they perform like, because the so called marginal gains is not making that much of a difference, according to LeMond.

LeMond is not calling Sky or Froome dopers, but is calling for transparency. It is hopeful..but Sky wont release the data to a truly independent source.

Apparently Brailsford is thinking about doing this tomorrow?

If Sky did this and all it does is support their argument of being clean, will this actually change the opinion of anyone who believes that they are doping? Doubt it

Brailsford needs to be able to show the data is Froomes and not tampered with. You know the ol machine calibration error...... Also needs to release the vo2max Froome did at UCI, also release pre '11 Vuelta data.

Then let the sports scientists at it.

But whatever will be released will not tell the story, it will be to say, we released the data and still it wasn't enough.....

If Froome was this naturally talented and clean they would've done this after 2013 TdF win.

Take that as a no

To be honest I would expect his VO2 to be much higher than pre 2011 Vuelta. 1) He had that parasite disease that affected him all 2011, which as we don't hear about it anymore I presume is gone. 2) Now he's a GC contender his training will have undoubtedly improved/increased 3) He now has several years of racing for wins in grand tours under his belt

Sky are around for how long? They have had plenty of time to be transparent. That LeMond is finally calling the Sky talk as similar to what Armstrong used to use tells us that Sky did not reinvent the wheel and that they are being backed into a corner now, becuase of a guy who had a disease that the team did not know about, his blood values were not abnormal even though he had a blood disease and he could barely finish GTs or get decent results, was being offered to Bruyneel, who refused then podiums a GT.

It would be very interesting to compare his vo2max from diseased rider to 'clean' GT winning rider and see if that explains it. But somehow i think if it did, they would have released it by now.

All Normal for pro cycling........which points to doping.

So i take it your a sky fan.....

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I would say a GC rider on top form (Froome, Contador, Quintana, Nibali), sitting in the wheels until the last 20 minutes could do that. He had what one big acceleration then rode tempo up the climb.

Based it on this http://www.fredericgrappe.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/pinot-ppr.pdf

If you see Froome as a superior climber to 2013 Pinot, it's easy to see 6.3 as possible

Am I reading the table correctly? It says Pinot's 60 min power in 2013 was 5.7 w/kg. Froome on Ventoux, widely described as mutant and convincing evidence of doping, was 5.7 w/kg (388w).

There must be some mistake?

Grappe is the guy who said Armstrong was clean.

 

[gazr99]

Re: Re:

I would say a GC rider on top form (Froome, Contador, Quintana, Nibali), sitting in the wheels until the last 20 minutes could do that. He had what one big acceleration then rode tempo up the climb.

Based it on this http://www.fredericgrappe.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/pinot-ppr.pdf

If you see Froome as a superior climber to 2013 Pinot, it's easy to see 6.3 as possible

Am I reading the table correctly? It says Pinot's 60 min power in 2013 was 5.7 w/kg. Froome on Ventoux, widely described as mutant and convincing evidence of doping, was 5.7 w/kg (388w).

There must be some mistake?

Not sure what Froome's w/kg was on Ventoux but yeah Pinot in 2013 could do 5.7 for 60 mins according to his coach