Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[gooner]

Re: Re:

Bernard Hinault could only place 2nd at the Anatomic Jock race?

Thanks for the article.

It helps to put that quote into context by reading the full article. Thezé seems to be saying that Froome was devoid of cycling skills but had huge athletic potential.

Yeah, but that doesn't suit The Clinic rhetoric ...

True.

Those quotes in the article from Theze and Nielsen are from the Sky documentary last year.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

Bernard Hinault could only place 2nd at the Anatomic Jock race?

Thanks for the article.

It helps to put that quote into context by reading the full article. Thezé seems to be saying that Froome was devoid of cycling skills but had huge athletic potential.

Don't know about the huge athletic potential, but he certainly was devoid of cycling skills until recently

Bernard Hinault could only place 2nd at the Anatomic Jock race?

Thanks for the article.

It helps to put that quote into context by reading the full article. Thezé seems to be saying that Froome was devoid of cycling skills but had huge athletic potential.

Yeah, but that doesn't suit The Clinic rhetoric ...

Stupid comment.

If he was a Hinault, why is it only being mentioned now? No such comparison was ever made when he was actually at the WCC.

He was the 10th U23 at the Argus Pick n Pay in November that same year, 18th overall. You would have to be tragically handicapped to ride that poorly that your "cycling skills" make you lose a minute or two with the engine of Bernard Hinault.

I realise you will tear that apart, but I am speaking from more than a couple of races experience.

It seems really unfortunate that the lack of skills mirror exactly what Team Sky have claimed, and that the WCC coach is only now sharing all his knowledge of the Hinault 2.0 now - rather than when he first raced with Sky, was at the WCC, won his first Tour.

Now, when the ridiculous physiological performance at the 2015 Tour is being questioned so vehemently.

Very... handy.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Fancy having a potential Hinault on your hands and ignoring that information, not coaching him how to ride a bike properly (I do not buy he did not have skills one bit).

Makes no sense at all.

WCC knew he was a Hinault and Barloworld never tested him to find the same thing?
WCC never told them?

WCC told them and they left him falling off his bike and not finishing coz he couldn't descend?

Stupid. Just stupid.

 

[wendybnt]

Re: tour

Bernard Hinault could only place 2nd at the Anatomic Jock race?

Thanks for the article.

Don't know about the huge athletic potential, but he certainly was devoid of cycling skills until recently

so how did he get round the tour with barloworld?.................

If it was the Giro in 2009 then 'in a wavy line' would be the answer.

 

[rekhyt]

How did Froome get a prescription for his asthma medication without getting his lung volume tested?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

(I do not buy he did not have skills one bit).

Makes no sense at all.

WCC knew he was a Hinault and Barloworld never tested him to find the same thing?
WCC never told them?

WCC told them and they left him falling off his bike and not finishing coz he couldn't descend?

Stupid. Just stupid.

I sit corrected. Here's what they said in 2007:

Great performance from Kenyan after stage at World Cycling Centre

07.05.2007

Young Kenyan Chris Froome made his mark in the Under-23 international cycling world last week as part of a mixed UCI team.

With a second place in the second stage and a victory in the fifth stage, Chris Froome finished 20th in the final ranking of the Giro delle Regioni – the fourth event in the important six-race UCI Under 23 Nations Cup.

The UCI points won at this event will help Kenya in its bid to qualify for the UCI Road World Championships in Stuttgart from 25-30 September 2007. Kenya currently lies in 25th place out of 28 nations competing in the UCI Under 23 Nations Cup.

Chris is the first Kenyan athlete to train at the World Cycling Centre since 2002 when the centre welcomed a Kenyan coach.

“Chris asked if he could come and train with us because he wanted to represent his country in the UCI Under 23 Nations Cup,” said UCI coach Michel Thèze. “We had already noticed him a year ago and our continental advisor in South Africa had also brought him to our attention. He wasn’t an unknown”.

During his short time at the WCC, Chris trained with the centre’s cyclists and accompanied them to two races, including the Under 23 Liège-Bastogne-Liège race on April 21.

However, his main goal was the six-stage Giro delle Regioni which began on April 26.

After an average first stage (20th), Chris came back to finish the 2nd stage in second position in the same time as the winner, Slovenia’s Grega Bole. The real glory came with his victory in the difficult 5th stage with the finish line at the top of a tough climb.

“When it’s tough, he’s very strong – above the others,” said Michel. “But he’s not a technical rider yet. He fell four times during the tour. Two of his falls came in the third stage, costing him 1min 20. When you see that in the final ranking he is only 1min 25 behind the winner it isn’t difficult to do the maths…”

Michel said that Chris had shown an interest in returning to the WCC at the end of the season.

“We will have to see what happens next. He was extremely grateful to have the chance to come here and he fitted in very well with the other cyclists. It’s not always easy but he had no problems.”

Chris’ result was part of a solid performance by the UCI mixed team from Dalivier Ospina (COL) 12, Haijun Ma (CHN) 16, Sung Baek Park (KOR) 39, Abdelkader Belmokhtar (ALG) 46, Hyun Wook Joo (KOR) 60.

No mention of Hinault.

Crashed 4 times.

So yeah, they did say he was not technical back ni 2007.

Still not believing the upgraded "Hinault" ranking, however. If you had a Hinault from South Africa and all you had to do was teach him to corner and descend...

 

[wendybnt]

Let's be honest. Thezé is highly unlikely to say:

"We tested him and totally failed to spot that he would be a muti-winning Tour champion"

 

[gooner]

An interview a couple of days ago with Theze(in French).

Basically says the same about susceptible to crashes and falling off his bike.

From Google translate:

Honestly, I had never seen a rider perform such tests at the World Centre. It was well above the lot.

http://www.letelegramme.fr/cyclisme/theze-froome-n-est-pas-un-voleur-27-07-2015-10720128.php

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

(I do not buy he did not have skills one bit).

Makes no sense at all.

WCC knew he was a Hinault and Barloworld never tested him to find the same thing?
WCC never told them?

WCC told them and they left him falling off his bike and not finishing coz he couldn't descend?

Stupid. Just stupid.

I sit corrected. Here's what they said in 2007:

Great performance from Kenyan after stage at World Cycling Centre

07.05.2007

Young Kenyan Chris Froome made his mark in the Under-23 international cycling world last week as part of a mixed UCI team.

With a second place in the second stage and a victory in the fifth stage, Chris Froome finished 20th in the final ranking of the Giro delle Regioni – the fourth event in the important six-race UCI Under 23 Nations Cup.

The UCI points won at this event will help Kenya in its bid to qualify for the UCI Road World Championships in Stuttgart from 25-30 September 2007. Kenya currently lies in 25th place out of 28 nations competing in the UCI Under 23 Nations Cup.

Chris is the first Kenyan athlete to train at the World Cycling Centre since 2002 when the centre welcomed a Kenyan coach.

“Chris asked if he could come and train with us because he wanted to represent his country in the UCI Under 23 Nations Cup,” said UCI coach Michel Thèze. “We had already noticed him a year ago and our continental advisor in South Africa had also brought him to our attention. He wasn’t an unknown”.

During his short time at the WCC, Chris trained with the centre’s cyclists and accompanied them to two races, including the Under 23 Liège-Bastogne-Liège race on April 21.

However, his main goal was the six-stage Giro delle Regioni which began on April 26.

After an average first stage (20th), Chris came back to finish the 2nd stage in second position in the same time as the winner, Slovenia’s Grega Bole. The real glory came with his victory in the difficult 5th stage with the finish line at the top of a tough climb.

“When it’s tough, he’s very strong – above the others,” said Michel. “But he’s not a technical rider yet. He fell four times during the tour. Two of his falls came in the third stage, costing him 1min 20. When you see that in the final ranking he is only 1min 25 behind the winner it isn’t difficult to do the maths…”

Michel said that Chris had shown an interest in returning to the WCC at the end of the season.

“We will have to see what happens next. He was extremely grateful to have the chance to come here and he fitted in very well with the other cyclists. It’s not always easy but he had no problems.”

Chris’ result was part of a solid performance by the UCI mixed team from Dalivier Ospina (COL) 12, Haijun Ma (CHN) 16, Sung Baek Park (KOR) 39, Abdelkader Belmokhtar (ALG) 46, Hyun Wook Joo (KOR) 60.

No mention of Hinault.

Crashed 4 times.

So yeah, they did say he was not technical back ni 2007.

Still not believing the upgraded "Hinault" ranking, however. If you had a Hinault from South Africa and all you had to do was teach him to corner and descend...

I thought Africa was a cycling backwater and had no proper equipment/coaches?

 

[wendybnt]

Dear Wiggo's last point still stands, in my opinion.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

So Froome is crap technically, never winning races. So how does he come to WCC's attention then? He's the 10th U23 at Pick n Pay after being trained and racing with WCC for a large chunk of 2007 - years prior his results were similar.

Why were the other U23s not brought to their attention? Not enough $$?

 

[BYOP88]

Re:

So Froome is crap technically, never winning races. So how does he come to WCC's attention then? He's the 10th U23 at Pick n Pay after being trained and racing with WCC for a large chunk of 2007 - years prior his results were similar.

Why were the other U23s not brought to their attention? Not enough $$?

Maybe their computer skills weren't at the same level as Froome's.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Here's his SA amateur results pre-WCC. Which one of these results brought him to WCC's attention?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The 16 year old kids I know who were great kick ass with the seniors, doing things like lapping them and stuff. Froome did nothing of note.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Bernard Hinault could only place 2nd at the Anatomic Jock race?

Thanks for the article.

It helps to put that quote into context by reading the full article. Thezé seems to be saying that Froome was devoid of cycling skills but had huge athletic potential.

Don't know about the huge athletic potential, but he certainly was devoid of cycling skills until recently

Bernard Hinault could only place 2nd at the Anatomic Jock race?

Thanks for the article.

It helps to put that quote into context by reading the full article. Thezé seems to be saying that Froome was devoid of cycling skills but had huge athletic potential.

Yeah, but that doesn't suit The Clinic rhetoric ...

Stupid comment.

If he was a Hinault, why is it only being mentioned now? No such comparison was ever made when he was actually at the WCC.

I see what you did there

As for the comparisons - no idea, but it is 2 independent organisations saying similar things so maybe there is some merit in it.

 

[gooner]

Re:

Dear Wiggo's last point still stands, in my opinion.

If you actually took the time to read the article or the other interviews with Theze like the Sky documentary, you would actually see that he's not taking any credit for Froome's transformation or success.

He's talking mainly about his own dealings with him.

 

[wendybnt]

You are right, Gooner. He specifically says what I said he'd never say

I've just read the Thezé article in the French magazine mentioned above. Here iis the iinteresting bit:

"Êtes-vous surpris par l'évolution de sa carrière ?
Oui, quand même. Je ne l'imaginais pas gagner le Tour de France. Potentiellement, je savais qu'il pouvait aller loin mais il faut tellement peu de chose pour passer à côté d'une carrière... On dira ce que l'on voudra mais je pense qu'il a eu beaucoup de chance d'être recruté par l'équipe Sky en 2010. Une équipe qui a compris tout de suite qu'elle avait de l'or entre les mains. Quand je l'ai vu évoluer chez Sky dans le Tour de France 2012, je n'ai pas été surpris par sa réussite. Avant de rejoindre le Team Sky, il avait couru le Tour de France (84e en 2008) avec Barloworld. Il s'agissait d'une petite équipe sud-africaine, pas très bien structurée mais cela ne l'avait pas empêché de prendre la 14e place du dernier contre-la-montre (entre Cérilly et Saint-Amand-Montrond) lors de l'avant-dernière étape. Personne ne l'avait remarqué mais ce jour-là, je me suis dit qu'il confirmait son potentiel. Chez Sky, ils ont compris qu'il avait des qualités de récupération évidentes, ils ont bâti une équipe autour de lui."

So, he's saying that Froome had the same fast acceleration and fast cadence back then but couldn't stay upright, and that whilst he though Froome could go further he didn't foresee him being a future Tour winner because he didn't think he'd get the lucky break needed. He says Froome was very lucky to be taken on by Sky and credits Sky with recognising Froome's potential and developing him.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

You are right, Gooner. He specifically says what I said he'd never say

I've just read the Thezé article in the French magazine mentioned above. Here iis the iinteresting bit:

"Êtes-vous surpris par l'évolution de sa carrière ?
Oui, quand même. Je ne l'imaginais pas gagner le Tour de France. Potentiellement, je savais qu'il pouvait aller loin mais il faut tellement peu de chose pour passer à côté d'une carrière... On dira ce que l'on voudra mais je pense qu'il a eu beaucoup de chance d'être recruté par l'équipe Sky en 2010. Une équipe qui a compris tout de suite qu'elle avait de l'or entre les mains. Quand je l'ai vu évoluer chez Sky dans le Tour de France 2012, je n'ai pas été surpris par sa réussite. Avant de rejoindre le Team Sky, il avait couru le Tour de France (84e en 2008) avec Barloworld. Il s'agissait d'une petite équipe sud-africaine, pas très bien structurée mais cela ne l'avait pas empêché de prendre la 14e place du dernier contre-la-montre (entre Cérilly et Saint-Amand-Montrond) lors de l'avant-dernière étape. Personne ne l'avait remarqué mais ce jour-là, je me suis dit qu'il confirmait son potentiel. Chez Sky, ils ont compris qu'il avait des qualités de récupération évidentes, ils ont bâti une équipe autour de lui."

So, he's saying that Froome had the same fast acceleration and fast cadence back then but couldn't stay upright, and that whilst he though Froome could go further he didn't foresee him being a future Tour winner because he didn't think he'd get the lucky break needed. He says Froome was very lucky to be taken on by Sky and credits Sky with recognising Froome's potential and developing him.

Where does it say fast acceleration or cadence?

 

[Benotti69]

So a guy says Froome was super talented, but no reuslts prove that till 26!!!!!

Sorry not buying that.

Barloworld are being portrayed as some kind of amateur team from a 3rd world backwater that had never seen bicycles.

Mauricio Soler won the polkadot jersey at the TdF. They have some decent wins.

 

[wendybnt]

Not in the pparagraph I quoted, but in the interview, Dear Wiggo, but if you give me a moment I'll go and find it.

 

[wendybnt]

Right here we are...


"Quand il se faisait attaquer, il ne répondait jamais tout de suite et vrouuummm, il revenait. Dans le même ordre d'idée, il possédait déjà cette capacité d'accélération. Il faut remettre les choses en place, il ne sort pas de nulle part."

That's the bit about acceleration. I may have made the bit about cadence up.

I've just noticed 2 other things. He says emphatically that Froome 'did not come out of nowhere", and also says that Froome had a bit of weight to lose.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

Not in the pparagraph I quoted, but in the interview, Dear Wiggo, but if you give me a moment I'll go and find it.

It's ok, I found and translated.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

So a guy says Froome was super talented, but no reuslts prove that till 26!!!!!

Sorry not buying that.

Barloworld are being portrayed as some kind of amateur team from a 3rd world backwater that had never seen bicycles.

Mauricio Soler won the polkadot jersey at the TdF. They have some decent wins.

he won a stage at the Tour and so did Robbie Hunter

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

So a guy says Froome was super talented, but no reuslts prove that till 26!!!!!

Sorry not buying that.

Barloworld are being portrayed as some kind of amateur team from a 3rd world backwater that had never seen bicycles.

Mauricio Soler won the polkadot jersey at the TdF. They have some decent wins.

They were probably the top Div 2 team in the world in 2007, and just behind Slipstream in 08 and 09. Don't forget that Soler finshed just outside top 10 with a stage and polka dots while Hunter came 2nd in the points classification and also won a stage. They were a solid team with a decent budget that showed well against the Pro Tour teams. They also had an experienced manager in Claudio Corti.

The team had a solid setup, they just lost sponsorship after several positives. They were even looking at going Pro Tour at one stage because they had the riders to do so.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

So a guy says Froome was super talented, but no reuslts prove that till 26!!!!!

Sorry not buying that.

Barloworld are being portrayed as some kind of amateur team from a 3rd world backwater that had never seen bicycles.

Mauricio Soler won the polkadot jersey at the TdF. They have some decent wins.

They were probably the top Div 2 team in the world in 2007, and just behind Slipstream in 08 and 09. Don't forget that Soler finshed just outside top 10 with a stage and polka dots while Hunter came 2nd in the points classification and also won a stage. They were a solid team with a decent budget that showed well against the Pro Tour teams. They also had an experienced manager in Claudio Corti.

The team had a solid setup, they just lost sponsorship after several positives. They were even looking at going Pro Tour at one stage because they had the riders to do so.

Indeed - they had a future double Tour winner in the team ...