Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[The Hitch]

Re:

i don't think it answers the question at all. The question was date of earliest quote by Froome and source of quote. I answered both above: Velonews 15th September 2011.

Nope, its what I posted. Day after Froome took the lead at the Vuelta

Salamanca tt August 29th.

Rest day August 30th

Story in some Dutch paper August 30th - http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/5612/Vuelta-Ciclista-a-Espana/article/detail/2877642/2011/08/30/Vuelta-leider-overwon-zeldzame-ziekte.dhtml

Fortunately, I'm on top. Since a final treatment shortly after the Tour of Switzerland in June, I find myself becoming my top form later. That proves itself actually already here. I've learned from my illness that you can not be careful enough as top cyclist. My energy is the most important. If you lose, it's very annoying, "said Sky rider Froome

Next day August 31st El Mundo.
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2011/08/30/ciclismo/1314737104.html

Then they expanded on the tale after the Vuelta.

 

[bewildered]

well done Hitch, I was only going on the BH thread. Is that info on it because it should be added to the timeline?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re: Re:

i don't think it answers the question at all. The question was date of earliest quote by Froome and source of quote. I answered both above: Velonews 15th September 2011.

I remember that day, it was the day i thought:

''hey, another superstar with an invented excuse for an idiotic transformation''.

This is not a lie.

To be honest, I remember thinking - for **** sake, give the guy some room. Yes he's obviously doping cos of the transformation but that doesn't mean he would invent a disease. Take your conspiracy hats of for one second.

Only 2 years later when the tropical disease expert posted detailed quotes and sources totally destroying Froome's entire fake story, I realized - damn, FGL and the handful of others who were calling him out, were right afterall.

When somebody basicly no one ever heard of is suddenly the best climber in a big race like the Vuelta and explains it due to being cured from a disease my alarmbells come ringing.

Not saying he couldnt have had Badzillah but that doesnt make up for his transformation, just like Wiggo and his weightloss and gaining power.

 

[blackcat]

in cycling, if it is too good to be true it will be fiction

 

[ray j willings]

There's the template,,,, catch bilharzia , get better and win the tour.

 

[BYOP88]

Re:

There's the template,,,, catch bilharzia , get better and win the tour.

I'm shocked more pro's haven't gone to Africa to catch it.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The template is:

* establish a base line of performance over a number of years
* smash established baseline out of the park
* scramble for any excuse to explain your transformation away

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

There's the template,,,, catch bilharzia , get better and win the tour.

I'm shocked more pro's haven't gone to Africa to catch it.

I am surprised Teams have not gone to Africa and in particular Kenya to catch it as part of their winter training camp.

They could then cure a rider 6 weeks prior to Il Giro, cure another rider 6 weeks prior to TdF and then cure a third rider 6 weeks prior to La Vuelta. Bingo.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re:

The template is:

* establish a base line of performance over a number of years
* contract a disease, cure said disease and realize it may serve as an excuses
* smash established baseline out of the park to secure your financial future
* watch UCI and your team scramble for any excuse to explain your transformation away, because neither can afford for you to get busted

Slightly adapted version, sounds pretty likely to me

 

[Lyon]

Re:

The template is:

* establish a base line of performance over a number of years
* smash established baseline out of the park
* scramble for any excuse to explain your transformation away

The fascinating thing is how bad and 'made up on the spot' the excuses usually are. If the media wasn't complicit in the lie they could tear everything apart.

And, to be fair to someone like Brailsford, his excuses sound plausible in a pseudo-scientific kind of way.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

The template is:

* establish a base line of performance over a number of years
* contract a disease, cure said disease and realize it may serve as an excuses
* smash established baseline out of the park to secure your financial future
* watch UCI and your team scramble for any excuse to explain your transformation away, because neither can afford for you to get busted

Slightly adapted version, sounds pretty likely to me

Having read Froome's book and loads of his articles, I personally am not 100% sure Froome ever had Bilharzia. That's because he rivals Brailsford when it comes to playing the victim card. Even though he wasn't a major cyclist pre 2011 he had access to the media purely by virtue of being British. He did interviews. The Froome we know and love would have told anybody that listened "I have Bilharzia" " look at me look at me, I have this illness, look at me, feel sorry for me" etc. But Froome in fact explicitly denied even being ill. I struggle to see Froome in that 2011 June interview pass up the chance to play victim.

secondly I doubt anyone who ever had the disease could be so shockingly uninformed about it. If he had the disease he would have been treated like everyone else with Prazincuantel. He would have been cured. He would have therefore known that it is easily cured and doesn't take 2 years.

Only someone who really did read all about the disease on wikipedia on August 30th could a few weeks later come up with the sort of nonesence Froome has.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm with you, Hitch. I am not buying he even had it.

 

[VO2 Max]

...good line of thinking here, especially just as the authorities ask for Armstrong's medical records!

 

[Texeng]

Re:

...good line of thinking here, especially just as the authorities ask for Armstrong's medical records!

Think the only way Froome's records would be released is if he fails a drug test/whistleblower/or he releases them himself. So not sure the authorities as per the Armstrong case is a parallel at this stage

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Only someone who really did read all about the disease on wikipedia on August 30th could a few weeks later come up with the sort of nonesence Froome has.

and insulted our intelligence about feeding pythons the rabits from the local primary school or kindergarten.

Walsh owes us an apology

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

The template is:

* establish a base line of performance over a number of years
* contract a disease, cure said disease and realize it may serve as an excuses
* smash established baseline out of the park to secure your financial future
* watch UCI and your team scramble for any excuse to explain your transformation away, because neither can afford for you to get busted

Slightly adapted version, sounds pretty likely to me

Having read Froome's book and loads of his articles, I personally am not 100% sure Froome ever had Bilharzia. That's because he rivals Brailsford when it comes to playing the victim card. Even though he wasn't a major cyclist pre 2011 he had access to the media purely by virtue of being British. He did interviews. The Froome we know and love would have told anybody that listened "I have Bilharzia" " look at me look at me, I have this illness, look at me, feel sorry for me" etc. But Froome in fact explicitly denied even being ill. I struggle to see Froome in that 2011 June interview pass up the chance to play victim.

secondly I doubt anyone who ever had the disease could be so shockingly uninformed about it. If he had the disease he would have been treated like everyone else with Prazincuantel. He would have been cured. He would have therefore known that it is easily cured and doesn't take 2 years.

Only someone who really did read all about the disease on wikipedia on August 30th could a few weeks later come up with the sort of nonesence Froome has.

there is a line from 'the Cound' in the Kimmage interview where she says 'we' in relation to the 'investigation' her a Froome did on badzilla...it's a throwaway line but is strange bearing in mind this is the disease that laid waste to 3 prime years of grand tour winning for our hapless hero......this should be a big story...how the world's physiologically most gifted individual (potentially ever) can be so curtailed by such a common and easily curable disease...

You would have assumed that google would not inform you any more than the doctors of which SKY seem replete with...I'm prone to a bit of google self-diagnosis myself but with so many doctors should this pair be responsible for researching their own medical condition????...and even if they were presumably it was before doctors could inform them i.e. winter 2010/11 in which case why no mention of 'red blood cell eating' between then and the Vuelta '11 in any interviews.....

yup...dodgy as...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

i don't think it answers the question at all. The question was date of earliest quote by Froome and source of quote. I answered both above: Velonews 15th September 2011.

I remember that day, it was the day i thought:

''hey, another superstar with an invented excuse for an idiotic transformation''.

This is not a lie.

To be honest, I remember thinking - for **** sake, give the guy some room. Yes he's obviously doping cos of the transformation but that doesn't mean he would invent a disease. Take your conspiracy hats of for one second.

Only 2 years later when the tropical disease expert posted detailed quotes and sources totally destroying Froome's entire fake story, I realized - damn, FGL and the handful of others who were calling him out, were right afterall.

Do you mind to link to those quotes and sources? Very interesting!

 

[The Hitch]

Post 689 on here - http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/2013_TdF_thread_(spoiler_alert)_P4637362-28

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Post 689 on here - http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/2013_TdF_thread_(spoiler_alert)_P4637362-28

link not working

 

[Benotti69]

From Hitch's link

justChris
Jul 17, 13 10:12
Post #689 of 792 (7581 views)

Some of the statements regarding bilharzia by Team Sky cannot be true.
http://velonews.competitor.com/...rzia-parasite_295548

My wife works as a post-doc studying infectious diseases, primarily researching schistosomiasis - which is the more common, scientific name for bilharzia.
The treatment for schistosomiasis/bilharzia is biltricide (Praziquantel) as mentioned, but the treatment is a one-day treatment. Reference here: http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/...75b1916b8#nlm34068-7 under dosage and adminsitration.

If schistosomasis/bilharzia was diagnosed in 2010, Froome should have been given the one day treatment and it should have no longer been an issue. The only reported occurrences of when the initial treatment does not eradicate the infection is when a heavy worm burden is in the system (i.e. a lot of worms infected Froome.) Even in those cases, treatment does not drag on for 18 months+. A heavy worm burden would also make the symptoms more severe than "I was always getting little colds and coughs, nothing serious".

Thus, it's unlikely to claim that it's still in his system (as of January according to the above article), unless he got re-infected by continuing to come into contact with contaminated waters. Given his reported history with this infection, that would be stupid.

There are other inconsistencies with the claims given:
"It’s not something that just disappears. It’s a parasite. It lays eggs. They might be dormant, then the eggs hatch, then they lay more eggs" - Completely false: Eggs laid in humans do not, and cannot hatch; they can only hatch in fresh water (after being excreted by humans). They also need interaction with snails before the hatched eggs can infect humans again. Source: Under Pathophysiology/Life Cycle - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosomiasis, also fairly common knowledge for those familiar with the infection.

Biltricide "basically kills everything in your system" - also false, same link above about the treatment under Adverse Effects - "In general BILTRICIDE is very well tolerated. Side effects are usually mild and transient and do not require treatment." Thus, a week of not being able to ride his bike is a ridiculous statement.

I'm not sure why they would lie to / misinform us about something like this....

the full link is there in Hitch's post but need to copy and paste into new window.

I'm not sure why they would lie to / misinform us about something like this....

They are lying to cover Froome's doping transformation.

 

[42x16ss]

Brailsford has admitted that some of Froome's performances in particular have matched those by doped Tour winners. That's not an issue and nor should it be.

Huh? Why shouldn't that be an issue? He's matching performances that have only been set by athletes that have been doped. Everybody who has gone as fast, or faster is tainted in some way shape or form.

The key is weight. Armstrong weighed 75kg during his Tour wins (confirmed by Ferrari). Froome is 7-8 kg lighter and yet has a huge engine.

And you don't see that as suspect? Prior to EPO/Transfusions no riders came close to the emaciated figures of riders such as Rasmussen, Schleck, Wigans and now Froome. To add to this, Froome not only climbs like these guys, he TT's better than they could ever dream of (except Wigans). Even Lemond at his lightest looked nothing like these guys and I always thought that he pushed the limit of what was safe.

Sky's ability to help their riders lose weight (legally) is the key to their success. There have been huge advances in diet and nutrition over the last decade and Sky are taking advantage of that.

Like what? Name one. Don't say a gluten free diet because:

1. Coeliac disease has been a known, identifiable condition for several decades

2. A gluten free diet has no performance benefits at all unless you ARE coeliac. Any and every certified sports nutritionist/dietician will tell you this.

The closest thing there's been to a huge advance in nutrition has been the identification of FODMAPS and their effects on the digestive system.

I'll let you do your own research regarding these and their effects, I'm already aware of them due to food intolerances my partner and I have.

If these advances are so large, and so groundbreaking, why is it that no other riders in the professional ranks are benefiting from these "huge advances in diet and nutrition" anywhere near what Froome, Wigans and now, apparently Thomas are? Even other riders from their own team?

Still waiting for those examples of "huge advances in diet and nutrition" over the last decade....

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

The template is:

* establish a base line of performance over a number of years
* contract a disease, cure said disease and realize it may serve as an excuses
* smash established baseline out of the park to secure your financial future
* watch UCI and your team scramble for any excuse to explain your transformation away, because neither can afford for you to get busted

Slightly adapted version, sounds pretty likely to me

Having read Froome's book and loads of his articles, I personally am not 100% sure Froome ever had Bilharzia. That's because he rivals Brailsford when it comes to playing the victim card. Even though he wasn't a major cyclist pre 2011 he had access to the media purely by virtue of being British. He did interviews. The Froome we know and love would have told anybody that listened "I have Bilharzia" " look at me look at me, I have this illness, look at me, feel sorry for me" etc. But Froome in fact explicitly denied even being ill. I struggle to see Froome in that 2011 June interview pass up the chance to play victim.

secondly I doubt anyone who ever had the disease could be so shockingly uninformed about it. If he had the disease he would have been treated like everyone else with Prazincuantel. He would have been cured. He would have therefore known that it is easily cured and doesn't take 2 years.

Only someone who really did read all about the disease on wikipedia on August 30th could a few weeks later come up with the sort of nonesence Froome has.

there is a line from 'the Cound' in the Kimmage interview where she says 'we' in relation to the 'investigation' her a Froome did on badzilla...it's a throwaway line but is strange bearing in mind this is the disease that laid waste to 3 prime years of grand tour winning for our hapless hero......this should be a big story...how the world's physiologically most gifted individual (potentially ever) can be so curtailed by such a common and easily curable disease...

You would have assumed that google would not inform you any more than the doctors of which SKY seem replete with...I'm prone to a bit of google self-diagnosis myself but with so many doctors should this pair be responsible for researching their own medical condition????...and even if they were presumably it was before doctors could inform them i.e. winter 2010/11 in which case why no mention of 'red blood cell eating' between then and the Vuelta '11 in any interviews.....

yup...dodgy as...

Bilharzia was a problem for Froome, but the main problem was he needed to learn a lot of things, but the Froome that was close to Kloden and Samu in the ITT in 2008 or with the best of the world in the ITTs, especially the second, of the best race in the world, in his first coomplete year in Europe, it is not so different of the Froome that was better than Wiggins in the ITT of Salamanca.

Why he didnt showed more in 2009 and 2010, I dont know exactly, but is like that for a lot of riders, sometimes thay have bad years and good years and that is not a question of doping...He had some crashes.
But the froome that was 15 in Castikla y Leon and romandia at the beginig of 2011 just have the difference in la Vuelta that he was better of his dissease, but at the same time he lerarned a lot of Wiggins, he learned how to race better.

But the potential of Froome is something that several experts pointed before 2008, and he conformed that in le Tour that year, and some cycling fans followed him and his mate Jhon lee augustyn, becopuse there were really big promises...and although Lee got great result in the climbs, acording result, not performance, better than Froome, Froome was for me always with more potential, becouse he was more complete and he started later cycling than Lee, and he has kilos to lose, not Lee.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Froome spent most of 2007 being trained by WCC in Aigle. Racing the U23 races with them. He came 2nd in the B World champs which is what allegedly attracted the CC coach, Theze to him.

His true potential is then revealed at the U23 world championships where he comes a stellar 41st.

I checked the race report from the day. There was no mention of a Froome-specific head wind.

I also note the B worlds were in Cape Town. South Africa. You know. Just up the road from where he lives. Unlike the worlds 3 months later in Stuttgart.

Note:
1. he came 2nd in a TT - he can TT on a TT bike
2. he came 41st - he can still TT, he's just sht
3. this is the performance of a rider Theze has the gall to describe as a "Hinault". fck off.

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

Froome spent most of 2007 being trained by WCC in Aigle. Racing the U23 races with them. He came 2nd in the B World champs which is what allegedly attracted the CC coach, Theze to him.

His true potential is then revealed at the U23 world championships where he comes a stellar 41st.

I checked the race report from the day. There was no mention of a Froome-specific head wind.

I also note the B worlds were in Cape Town. South Africa. You know. Just up the road from where he lives. Unlike the worlds 3 months later in Stuttgart.

Note:
1. he came 2nd in a TT - he can TT on a TT bike
2. he came 41st - he can still TT, he's just sht
3. this is the performance of a rider Theze has the gall to describe as a "Hinault". fck off.

indeed...whilst froome is getting these stellar results...Quintana at the same stage in his career is knocking in victory in the Dauphine and the route de sud....yup a once in a generation talent indeed

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Froome spent most of 2007 being trained by WCC in Aigle. Racing the U23 races with them. He came 2nd in the B World champs which is what allegedly attracted the CC coach, Theze to him.

His true potential is then revealed at the U23 world championships where he comes a stellar 41st.

I checked the race report from the day. There was no mention of a Froome-specific head wind.

I also note the B worlds were in Cape Town. South Africa. You know. Just up the road from where he lives. Unlike the worlds 3 months later in Stuttgart.

Note:
1. he came 2nd in a TT - he can TT on a TT bike
2. he came 41st - he can still TT, he's just sht
3. this is the performance of a rider Theze has the gall to describe as a "Hinault". fck off.

I talked a lot about this in my article about Froome story.

Just to say he has not talent becouse he was 41th in that ITT is just you dont know a lot about cycling.

One year later he was one of the best in Portugal with Kloden, taaramae, and in Asturias, with samu, etc...and of course in le Tour.

Froome wanst a rider that when he started cycling was always riding in top performances as other like Pinot, Quintana, Aru, etc.. but that doenst mean he hadnt a big potential.

About Bilharzia, I admit is an strange issue that should be explained better, but that story about a program of transformation and something to cover, has no sense.

My opinion is that Froome could have that disease years before 2011, it is not a big problem for cycling, but is a problem.

If Froome said wrong things about the disease that doenst means a lot.