Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[ppanther92]

Re: Re:

Does anybody have that old Team Sky graph showing where they expected their riders to end up in their career vs their age? Like some were GC contenders, some domestiques and then Froome was like borderline WorldTour rider or something.

Must've been from 2010/11? Lofkvist and Augustyn were on there too, I think.

And really that graphic is bad. Froome's performances were bad, but hardly a tier below Pauwels/Carlström or (my favorite) nearly 2 tiers below Michael Barry bad.

There are a million legitimate ways to discredit Team Sky, but that graph is not one of them.

It had nothing to do with how Sky viewed their riders. It showed Brailsford's career trajectory curve, coupled with what kind of results each rider had achieved at that point, plotted in by whatever media outlet who published it (can't remember who).

It basically means nothing.

It's a perfectly legitimate way to show what Brailsford actually thought of froome, contrary to the "diamond in the rough *** he made up in hindsight about how he knew in 2007 froome was the greatest athlete ever born.

Exactly.

 

[Squire]

Re: Re:

Does anybody have that old Team Sky graph showing where they expected their riders to end up in their career vs their age? Like some were GC contenders, some domestiques and then Froome was like borderline WorldTour rider or something.

Must've been from 2010/11? Lofkvist and Augustyn were on there too, I think.

And really that graphic is bad. Froome's performances were bad, but hardly a tier below Pauwels/Carlström or (my favorite) nearly 2 tiers below Michael Barry bad.

There are a million legitimate ways to discredit Team Sky, but that graph is not one of them.

It had nothing to do with how Sky viewed their riders. It showed Brailsford's career trajectory curve, coupled with what kind of results each rider had achieved at that point, plotted in by whatever media outlet who published it (can't remember who).

It basically means nothing.

It's a perfectly legitimate way to show what Brailsford actually thought of froome, contrary to the "diamond in the rough *** he made up in hindsight about how he knew in 2007 froome was the greatest athlete ever born.

How is it, when Brailsford had nothing to do with the drawing of that graph?

I agree with you that it's very unlikely that Brailsford thought Froome was a 'diamond in the rough', but as it says in the Cyclingweekly article: "Please note, this graph is our interpretation of Dave Brailsford’s theory, not the exact graph produced for Team Sky."

There's enough evidence against Team Sky already. No need to diminish the credibility of your arguments by inventing dubious ones.

 

[MartinGT]

I'd love to know what Wigan thinks now. Mind you he was suppose to 'shock' us and never did.

 

[The Hegelian]

I've let everything settle for a day or two. Now I just have to say:

What Froome did in the Giro was Absolute Full ***, Universal Mutant, Immutable Alien. Insane, ridiculous, unbelievable. It was proper 90's/00's stuff.

Not the slightest shred of reason or evidence is needed - it was ontological.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

Does anybody have that old Team Sky graph showing where they expected their riders to end up in their career vs their age? Like some were GC contenders, some domestiques and then Froome was like borderline WorldTour rider or something.

Must've been from 2010/11? Lofkvist and Augustyn were on there too, I think.

And really that graphic is bad. Froome's performances were bad, but hardly a tier below Pauwels/Carlström or (my favorite) nearly 2 tiers below Michael Barry bad.

There are a million legitimate ways to discredit Team Sky, but that graph is not one of them.

It had nothing to do with how Sky viewed their riders. It showed Brailsford's career trajectory curve, coupled with what kind of results each rider had achieved at that point, plotted in by whatever media outlet who published it (can't remember who).

It basically means nothing.

It's a perfectly legitimate way to show what Brailsford actually thought of froome, contrary to the "diamond in the rough *** he made up in hindsight about how he knew in 2007 froome was the greatest athlete ever born.

How is it, when Brailsford had nothing to do with the drawing of that graph?

I agree with you that it's very unlikely that Brailsford thought Froome was a 'diamond in the rough', but as it says in the Cyclingweekly article: "Please note, this graph is our interpretation of Dave Brailsford’s theory, not the exact graph produced for Team Sky."

There's enough evidence against Team Sky already. No need to diminish the credibility of your arguments by inventing dubious ones.

only its not dubious because it represented exactly the situation on the ground when it was published...it wasn't rubbished by anyone 'at the time'. Sky were going to let him go, he wasn't first choice for the Vuelta and Dan Martin thought he was useless when asked an opinion....i.e. he was a joke...and now...he walks alongside Mercxk and Hinault....hahahaha

 

[gillan1969]

Following on from the above and for the hard of hearing...sorry understanding - here is a list of the three riders who have held all three GTs at the same time along with their provenance and their result whilst full time bike riders between ages 21-26. It has to be in three separate posts for clarity and because of the sheer volume of victories of the protagonists involved (well apart from the odd one out :razz: ) - cycling - it really is this ridiculous.....
First Mercxk, then Hinault and then...our hapless hero

 

[MartinGT]

If and I know this is an if. If this had been say Nibali whilst riding for Vino who had done this there would be up roar. Imagine if (again I know) he had gone onto win the Tour too.

 

[gillan1969]

Mercxk results age 21-26

1965
1st MaillotBélgica.svg Amateur madison, Belgian National Championships (with Patrick Sercu)
1st GP Stad Vilvoorde
1st Rocourt Madison
1st Roubaix Omnium
1st Omloop van het Houtland
1st Itterbeek
1st Wezembeek
1st Kessel-Lo
1st Critérium du Renaix
1st Nederbrakel
1st Critérium de Visé
1st Critérium de St. Jansteen
1st Six Days of Ghent (with Patrick Sercu)

1966
1st MaillotBélgica.svg Madison, Belgian National Championships (with Patrick Sercu)
1st Milan–San Remo
1st Anvers omnium (with Patrick Sercu)
1st GP Pino Cerami
1st Rocourt omnium (with Patrick Sercu)
1st Ostende omnium (with Patrick Sercu)
1st Brussels-Meulebeke
1st Helchteren
1st Rousiès
1st Denderleeuw
1st Rumes
1st Overall Tour of Morbihan

1st Stages 3 & 4

1st Druivenkoers a Overijse
1st GP Le Télégramme à Châteaulin
1st Championship of Flanders
1st Viane
1st Brussels omnium (with Rik Van Looy and Edward Sels)
1st Anvers individuelle
1st Circuit des Frontieres a Templeuve-Baisieux
1st Criterium de Puteaux
1st Overall Escalada a Montjuich

1st Stage 1b

1st Brussels omnium (24 October) (with Patrick Sercu)
1st Gent omnium (1 November) (with Walter Godefroot)
1st Trofeo Baracchi (with Ferdinand Bracke)
1st Gent omnium (7 November) (with Rik Van Steenbergen, Patrick Sercu, & Noël Van Clooster)
1st Brussels omnium (15 November) (with Rik Van Steenbergen)
1st Stage 2 Grand Prix du Midi Libre

1967 (Team Peugeot-BP)
1st Road race, UCI Road World Championships
1st MaillotBélgica.svg Madison, Belgian National Championships (with Patrick Sercu)
1st Milan–San Remo
1st Critérium de Camors
1st Gent–Wevelgem
1st GP Salvarani
1st Gent omnium (with Edward Sels & Rik Van Looy)
1st Aulnay-sous-Blois omnium (with Ferdinand Bracke)
1st Milano omnium
1st GP du Tournaisis
1st La Flèche Wallonne
1st Nandrin
1st Simpelveld
1st Lorient omnium (Rudi Altig, Tom Simpson, & Howling)
1st Roubaix omnium
1st Ostende omnium (with Patrick Sercu)
1st Enter
1st La Clayette
1st Critérium de La Panne
1st Critérium de st Lenaarts
1st Championship du Brabant
1st Critérium de Liedekerke
1st Critérium d'Armentières
1st Ostende madison (with Patrick Sercu)
1st Rocourt madison (with Patrick Sercu)
1st Anvers omnium
1st Anvers individuelle
1st Gent omnium (with Daniel Van Ryckeghem)
1st Madrid madison (with Jan Janssen)
1st Prix de Cloture Critèrium de As
1st Trofeo Baracchi (with Ferdinand Bracke)
1st Gent omnium (with Ferdinand Bracke)
1st Six Days of Ghent (with Patrick Sercu)
Giro d'Italia

1st Stages 12 & 14

Paris–Nice

1st Stages 2 & 6

Giro di Sardegna

1st Stages 6 & 7

1st Stage 3 Paris–Luxembourg
1st Putte-Kapellen
1st Omloop der Zennevallei

1968 (Team Faema)
1st MaillotBélgica.svg Madison, Belgian National Championships (with Patrick Sercu)
1st Charleroi
1st Anvers omnium
1st Overall Giro di Sardegna

1st Stages 1 & 5b

1st Rombano Lombardo
1st Gent omnium (with Patrick Sercu)
1st Paris–Roubaix
1st Anvers omnium (with Rik Van Looy)
1st Overall Tour de Romandie

1st Stage 1

1st Milan omnium (with Vittorio Adorni)
1st Jersey pink.svg Overall Giro d'Italia

1st Jersey red.svg Points classification
1st Mountains classification
1st Stages 1, 2, 8, & 12

1st Rocourt omnium
1st Ostende omnium (with Patrick Sercu)
1st Salsiomaggiore
1st La Clayette
1st Bornem
1st Ostende omnium
1st Woluwé-St Lambert
1st La Panne
1st Rocourt omnium
1st Ohain
1st Tre Valli Varesine
1st Alsemberg
1st Championship du Brabant
1st Milan omnium (with Rudi Altig, Lucien Aimar, & Jean Jourdan)
1st Overall Volta a Catalunya

1st Stages 1 & 6

1st Rome omnium (with Vittorio Adorni
1st Milan pursuit
1st Milan omnium (with Rudi Altig)
1st Gran Premio di Lugano
1st Roue d'Or
1st Gent omnium (with Guido Reybrouck)
1st Overall A travers Lausanne

1st Stages 1a & 2a

1st Six Days of Charleroi (with Ferdinand Bracke)
1st Stage 6b Volta a Catalunya
1st Trofeo Dicen

1969 (Team Faema)
1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Tour de France

1st Jersey green.svg Points classification
1st Mountains classification
1st Jersey white.svg Combination classification
1st Jersey red number.svg Combativity award
1st Stages 1b (TTT), 6, 8a, 11, 15, 17 & 22b

1st Ronde du Carnaval d'Aix en Provence
1st Overall Vuelta a Levante

1st Points Classification
1st Stages 3, 4 & 5

1st Jersey white.svg Overall Paris–Nice

1st Stages 2, 3b & 7b

1st Milan–San Remo
1st Gand omnium (with Roger De Vlaeminck & Walter Godefroot)
1st Tour of Flanders
1st Anvers omnium
1st Liège–Bastogne–Liège
1st Rome omnium
Giro d'Italia

1st Stages 3, 4, 7 & 15

1st La Roche-sur-Yon (with R. Lelangue & F. Mintjens)
1st La Trimouille
1st Bruxelles-Muelebeke
1st Ottignies
1st Critérium d'Alost
1st Critérium de Woluwé-St Lambert
1st Vincennes omnim
1st Guerlesquin Tro-Ker
1st Remiremont
1st Chateau-Chinon
1st Overall Paris–Luxembourg

1st Stage 2

1st Ostende omnium
1st Londerzeel Critérium
1st Saussignac
1st Moorslede Critérium
1st Auvelais Critérium
1st Schaerbeek
1st Alès
1st Circuit de l'Aulne a Chateaulin
1st Gand omnium (with Julien Stevens)
1st Critérium d'Europe d'américaine a Cologne (with Patrick Sercu)
1st Scorze
1st Gand omnium (with Roger De Vlaeminck)
1st Charleroi omnium (with Ferdinand Bracke)
1st G. P. de Wallonie a Charleroi individuelle
1st Anvers omnum (with Jacques Anquetil, Rudi Altig & Harm Ottenbros)
1st Coupe du Monde intermarques
1st Overall Super Prestige Pernod International

1970 (Team Faema-Faemino)
1st MaillotBélgica.svg Road race, National Road Championships
1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Tour de France

1st Mountains classification
1st Jersey white.svg Combination classification
1st Jersey red number.svg Combativity award
1st Prologue & Stages 3 (TTT), 7a, 10, 11b, 12, 14, 20b & 23

1st Jersey pink.svg Overall Giro d'Italia

1st Combination classification
1st Stages 2, 7 & 9

1st Jersey white.svg Overall Paris–Nice

1st Mountains classification
1st Stages 3, 7b & 8b

1st Paris–Roubaix
1st Gent–Wevelgem
1st La Flèche Wallonne
1st Anvers omnium (with Julien Stevens)
1st Carleroi omnium
1st Charleroi americaine (with Julien Stevens)
1st Grenoble omnium
1st Sanary
1st Col San Martino
1st Overall Tour of Belgium

1st Points classification
1st Stages 1b & 3b

1st Lorient
1st Villafranca
1st Caen
1st Critérium de Renxaix
Critérium de Woluwé-St Lambert

1st Overall
1st Time Trial

1st Ronde de Seignelay
1st Vailly-sur-Sauldre
1st Saint-Cyprien Critérium
1st Bilzen Critérium
1st St. Niklaas Critérium
1st Baussières
1st Varilhes
1st Dortmund G. P. Union
1st Castelfranco
1st Chateaugiron
Montjuich Escalada

1st Overall
1st Time Trial

1st Bastia
1st Critérium des As
1st Lissone Coppa Agostini
1st A travers Lausanne
1st Eeklo cyclo-cross (with Roger de Vlaeminck)
1st Overall Super Prestige Pernod International

 

[gillan1969]

Hinault Results age 21-26

1976
1st MaillotFra.PNG Individual pursuit, National Track Championships
1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Circuit de la Sarthe

1st Stage 3a

1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Tour du Limousin

1st Stage 1

1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Tour de l'Aude
1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Tour d'Indre–et–Loire
1st Paris–Camembert
1977
1st Jersey yellow-bluebar.svg Overall Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré

1st Stages 1 & 5

1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Tour du Limousin

1st Stage 1

1st Liège–Bastogne–Liège
1st Gent–Wevelgem
1st Grand Prix des Nations
1978
1st MaillotFra.PNG Road race, National Road Championships
1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Tour de France

1st Stages 8 (ITT), 15 & 20 (ITT)

1st Jersey gold.svg Overall Vuelta a España

1st Prologue, Stages 11b, 12, 14 & 18

1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Critérium International

1st Stage 3

1st Grand Prix des Nations
2nd Overall Paris–Nice
3rd Giro di Lombardia
1979
1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Tour de France

1st Jersey green.svg Points classification
1st Stages 2 (ITT), 3, 11 (ITT), 15 (ITT), 21 (ITT), 23 & 24

1st Jersey yellow-bluebar.svg Overall Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré
1st Overall Super Prestige Pernod International
1st Giro di Lombardia
1st La Flèche Wallonne
1st Grand Prix des Nations
1st Stage 3 Tour de Luxembourg
2nd Overall Critérium International
2nd Liège–Bastogne–Liège
2nd Road race, National Road Championships
8th Gent–Wevelgem
1980
1st Jersey rainbow.svg Road race, UCI Road World Championships
1st Jersey pink.svg Overall Giro d'Italia

1st Stage 14

Tour de France

1st Prologue, Stages 4 (ITT) & 5
Held Jersey yellow.svg for 2 Days

1st Jersey green.svg Overall Tour de Romandie
1st Overall Super Prestige Pernod International
1st Liège–Bastogne–Liège
2nd Road race, National Road Championships
3rd La Flèche Wallonne
4th Paris–Roubaix
5th Amstel Gold Race

 

[gillan1969]

Froome results Age 21-26

2006
1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Tour of Mauritius

1st Stages 2 & 3

2nd Anatomic Jock Race
2007
1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Mi-Août en Bretagne
1st Stage 5 Giro delle Regioni
1st Stage 6 Tour of Japan
2nd Berg en Dale Classic
2nd Silver medal blank.svg Time trial, UCI B World Championships
3rd Road race, All-Africa Games
8th Tour du Doubs
2008
2nd Overall Giro del Capo
3rd Giro dell'Appennino
4th Overall Herald Sun Tour
6th Overall Volta ao Distrito de Santarém
2009
1st Stage 2 Giro del Capo
1st Anatomic Jock Race
4th Road race, National Road Championships
9th Gran Premio Nobili Rubinetterie
2010
2nd Time trial, National Road Championships
5th Time trial, Commonwealth Games
9th Overall Tour du Haut Var

 

[Squire]

only its not dubious because it represented exactly the situation on the ground when it was published...it wasn't rubbished by anyone 'at the time'. Sky were going to let him go, he wasn't first choice for the Vuelta and Dan Martin thought he was useless when asked an opinion....i.e. he was a joke...and now...he walks alongside Mercxk and Hinault....hahahaha

Obviously Froome's CQ profile or palmares at that time says it all. No need to claim that the graph, which is just a media outlet's representation of those results, says anything about Brailsford's thoughts.

I want the uninformed reader to be convinced by the real evidence against Team Sky. Using arguments that are easy to rebutt is not helping.

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

Does anybody have that old Team Sky graph showing where they expected their riders to end up in their career vs their age? Like some were GC contenders, some domestiques and then Froome was like borderline WorldTour rider or something.

Must've been from 2010/11? Lofkvist and Augustyn were on there too, I think.

And really that graphic is bad. Froome's performances were bad, but hardly a tier below Pauwels/Carlström or (my favorite) nearly 2 tiers below Michael Barry bad.

There are a million legitimate ways to discredit Team Sky, but that graph is not one of them.

It had nothing to do with how Sky viewed their riders. It showed Brailsford's career trajectory curve, coupled with what kind of results each rider had achieved at that point, plotted in by whatever media outlet who published it (can't remember who).

It basically means nothing.

It's a perfectly legitimate way to show what Brailsford actually thought of froome, contrary to the "diamond in the rough *** he made up in hindsight about how he knew in 2007 froome was the greatest athlete ever born.

of course...when it suitsyour agenda.

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

only its not dubious because it represented exactly the situation on the ground when it was published...it wasn't rubbished by anyone 'at the time'. Sky were going to let him go, he wasn't first choice for the Vuelta and Dan Martin thought he was useless when asked an opinion....i.e. he was a joke...and now...he walks alongside Mercxk and Hinault....hahahaha

Obviously Froome's CQ profile or palmares at that time says it all. No need to claim that the graph, which is just a media outlet's representation of those results, says anything about Brailsford's thoughts.

I want the uninformed reader to be convinced by the real evidence against Team Sky. Using arguments that are easy to rebutt is not helping.

indeed but in the grey area that is team sky, SDB claims of the brilliance of team sky is used as the narrative to explain why they can win/dominate races....it is in place of PEDs...only we know that they cannot even tell they have the best rider virtually of all time on their rosta and all they need do is to tell him to shed a few pounds.....and actually think he is useless...in that regard the graph is priceless...besides...SDB would have almost certainly proofed that article and whilst he probably agreed with the caveat he certainly didn't disagree with the representation

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If you're going to go the "results at age X" route, then Froome is basically a better Tony Rominger.

 

[rick james]

Re:

I've let everything settle for a day or two. Now I just have to say:

What Froome did in the Giro was Absolute Full ***, Universal Mutant, Immutable Alien. Insane, ridiculous, unbelievable. It was proper 90's/00's stuff.

Not the slightest shred of reason or evidence is needed - it was ontological.

It's the clinic way after all

 

[DFA123]

Following on from the above and for the hard of hearing...sorry understanding - here is a list of the three riders who have held all three GTs at the same time along with their provenance and their result whilst full time bike riders between ages 21-26. It has to be in three separate posts for clarity and because of the sheer volume of victories of the protagonists involved (well apart from the odd one out :razz: ) - cycling - it really is this ridiculous.....
First Mercxk, then Hinault and then...our hapless hero

For balance, there are also legitimate reasons why Froome could have reached his potential later. And I'm not talking about the bilharzia nonsense. If he had grown up in Belgium or France, with access to top coaches, riding with and against other top riders from a young age, immersed in a culture of cycle racing, then I'm pretty sure he would have improved more quickly as well.

This is the paradox with Froome. He is a donkey turned racehorse in many respects - namely, that his 2011 transformation is as indicative of a doping program as anything we've seen in recent years. But, he did make it as a world tour level professional cyclist, racing in the Giro. And he did this coming out of countries who are not really known for producing professional riders, and despite having relatively poor coaching and limited experience of competitive road racing as a junior, compared with his European rivals.

And he did have a lot potential to improve - in his Barloworld days he was overweight and very raw in terms of his bike handling and race management. I think he was a talent in some respects - certainly he had mental toughness to make it as a pro - and comparisons with Merckx and Hinault as young riders are a bit disingenuous because those two had a much bigger headstart in terms of their youth development.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

It's time for sky to throw him under the autobus.

 

[gillan1969]

Following on from the above and for the hard of hearing...sorry understanding - here is a list of the three riders who have held all three GTs at the same time along with their provenance and their result whilst full time bike riders between ages 21-26. It has to be in three separate posts for clarity and because of the sheer volume of victories of the protagonists involved (well apart from the odd one out :razz: ) - cycling - it really is this ridiculous.....
First Mercxk, then Hinault and then...our hapless hero

For balance, there are also legitimate reasons why Froome could have reached his potential later. And I'm not talking about the bilharzia nonsense. If he had grown up in Belgium or France, with access to top coaches, riding with and against other top riders from a young age, immersed in a culture of cycle racing, then I'm pretty sure he would have improved more quickly as well.

This is the paradox with Froome. He is a donkey turned racehorse in many respects - namely, that his 2011 transformation is as indicative of a doping program as anything we've seen in recent years. But, he did make it as a world tour level professional cyclist, racing in the Giro. And he did this coming out of countries who are not really known for producing professional riders, and despite having relatively poor coaching and limited experience of competitive road racing as a junior, compared with his European rivals.

And he did have a lot potential to improve - in his Barloworld days he was overweight and very raw in terms of his bike handling and race management. I think he was a talent in some respects - certainly he had mental toughness to make it as a pro - and comparisons with Merckx and Hinault as young riders are a bit disingenuous because those two had a much bigger headstart in terms of their youth development.

........and yet with that engine (it was there all along - a scientist said so) and that mental toughness both Hinault and Mercxk could do more at 19/20 than he could at 26??? C'mon..................

bike handling and race management?...when your that good you end up at the front of race irrespective of those things...you can't help it...especially in time trials...which he didn't...and (even accounting for weight) on climbs....which he didn't...and by 26 he had been racing in a pro environment full time for over 5 years....more than mercxk at 19

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

only its not dubious because it represented exactly the situation on the ground when it was published...it wasn't rubbished by anyone 'at the time'. Sky were going to let him go, he wasn't first choice for the Vuelta and Dan Martin thought he was useless when asked an opinion....i.e. he was a joke...and now...he walks alongside Mercxk and Hinault....hahahaha

Obviously Froome's CQ profile or palmares at that time says it all. No need to claim that the graph, which is just a media outlet's representation of those results, says anything about Brailsford's thoughts.

I want the uninformed reader to be convinced by the real evidence against Team Sky. Using arguments that are easy to rebutt is not helping.

Perhaps a better point to make would be that Team Sky stated their aim to have a British Tour de France winner within 5 years. At the start line of the Vuelta in 2011, Bradley Wiggins was a one-hit wonder and because of how early he'd crashed out of the Tour that year, we still did not know that he could be that. Geraint Thomas was still a northern classics contender and even with that, it's taken him until outside the original Team Sky 5 year time frame for him to develop his climbing to the extent that that could have been feasibly him. Peter Kennaugh was the name most often touted as the potential British Tour winner, thanks to his 2009 Girobio performance, but he was still far too raw at that point to know whether he could become one or not. His 5th place in the Tour de Pologne that year was his first promising sign at the pro level - a race where Froome was climbing with the sprinters. Froome had been mentioned by a few people as potentially having the level, but only in passing. Mainly because he hadn't even been the most promising young African climber on Barloworld, because John-Lee Augustyn had. And he didn't have a contract offer on the table, and was looking at domestique ProTour minimum wage with Garmin or Lampre, the two teams who had expressed an interest. He was a guy who could be an OK climbing helper or stagehunter, or could be taken on as a reclamation project. By not signing him up again until after that Vuelta, Sky lost a lot of money because his value went through the ceiling.

If, given their stated aim of a British Tour de France winner within five years, Sky had a rider who, albeit born and raised overseas, had the British flag next to his name, and had the talent to match the best times of the EPO generation and do it clean, why would they have been willing to let him go for peanuts to much lower budget teams, unless they were just as surprised by his sudden improvement as the rest of us?

 

[rghysens]

Re:

If you're going to go the "results at age X" route, then Froome is basically a better Tony Rominger.

Didn't Rominger started with cycling in his early 20's? Somewhere around the age Froome was already a pro?
(He was a bookkeeper before that, if I recall correctly)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

If you're going to go the "results at age X" route, then Froome is basically a better Tony Rominger.

Didn't Rominger started with cycling in his early 20's? Somewhere around the age Froome was already a pro?
(He was a bookkeeper before that, if I recall correctly)

Yes, he was a latecomer to the sport, but not like, say, a Michael Woods or a Primož Roglič. I was more meaning the time it took him from turning pro to becoming the star he was. But even then it wasn't quite right because Rominger had that one-day racing side to his skillset which Froome hasn't really developed even now, seeing as his earliest top results were races like the Giro dell'Emilia and Lombardia. But it was more the fact that he'd ridden Grand Tours with only the occasional day of showing he could be up there for a good few years before he suddenly became a great long-form stage racer in the early 90s, at which point he started obliterating tough mountainous stage races and won four GTs in dominant fashion.

 

[pastronef]

marginal gains

Portal guiding Froome during the Finestre downhill.

https://www.twitter.com/kingblem/status/1001021853090111488

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

The "results at age X" comparison too far back is a bad idea though. Riders peaked earlier in the old days. Froome just won 3 GTs on the spin at the age when Merckx and Hinault retired.

 

[Pantani Attacks]

Re:

The "results at age X" comparison too far back is a bad idea though. Riders peaked earlier in the old days. Froome just won 3 GTs on the spin at the age when Merckx and Hinault retired.

Merckx and Hinault didn't have motors to help them unlike Dawg

 

[Alexandre B.]

Provisional Giro 2018 winner holds the trophy that was given to him by former Giro 2011 winner.

Isn't it beautiful?