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Miburo said:Escarabajo said:So here we are at the Giro d'Italia and people are bumping this thread. Ooops I just did it as well.
The dauphine is already starting in 4 weeks. We're all hoping for this after all
red zone said:Moved by mods from the Contador thread:
people are giving too much credit to Froome and his team
CF and his team looked strong but hardly at last years tour level and while G will be a huge asset , the tour for Alberto will not be won or lost solely based on Sky's dom's but on what type of form he is on .
Some posters have to stop acting like CF and his team are all on great form and already have a 3 min advantage so the rest of the field has to take huge risks to get time back . If Contador/Q have good form they can sit back and let the Sky train do there thing and wait for their opportunities , there's no reason to try a long range attack or any other high risk tactic until it's necessary .
Gigs_98 said:First of all, no Froome hasn't shown he is better than Contador. Nobody said that before this tour but now Contadors crash somehow was the definite indicator how weak he has become ...
Anyway, I think this topic is actually very interesting. I think neither is a potential tour de france winner. A 4th place in the tdf with only 23 years is ofc. mightily impressive but the tdf field this year was just relatively weak and his performance in the 3rd week wasn't very promising. Depending on what he targets he might however be able to win the giro and the vuelta in the future. He is probably already in the top 10 of gc riders and will hopefully still improve a lot and be in the top 5 in a few years. Therefore I would understand it if he rides the giro next year because I think he would have a decent shot at winning it. Chaves however will probably never be more than a 2nd tier gc rider. The guy is 26 already and I fear he won't really improve that much in the future. Problem I see for him is that he will even hardly win a lesser gt. This year he was more or less on the same level as yates but I think that will change drastically in the next few years.
The question is therefore what OBE wants to achieve. Do they want a tdf win? Then Yates should probably try again in a few years but right now I don't think it's possible. Do they want a gt win? Then they should probably let yates try the giro-vuelta double while Caves can try top get a top 10 in the tour or go stage hunting. The problem about the whole thing is that Yates will probably want to ride the tour because it suits him better and Chaves will want to ride the giro because it suits him better but that way they might end up with two gc riders who are just that little bit too weak to win in their respective gt.
rick james said:Head firmly in the sand
hrotha said:Why the ****ing **** would you ****ing want to have that ****ing conversation about ****ing Froome vs ****ing Contador yet again.
Gigs_98 said:From another thread where it was off topic and I probably annoyed most people there with the topic.
viewtopic.php?p=1993588#p1993588
So, I want to make this clear. I never said Contador would have won the tour de france this year if he hadn't crashed. I even wrote in a few threads that I think Froome would have won anyway so I didn't want to underrate him. The only reason why I wrote the comment was because it was a response to someone who said "Froome has shown that he is better than Contador" and imo that is simply wrong. If someone says Froome has shown that he is stronger than Bernhard Kohl it's also wrong. We can be pretty sure that it's the case but he didn't show it anywhere.
¨Mr.White said:Gigs_98 said:From another thread where it was off topic and I probably annoyed most people there with the topic.
viewtopic.php?p=1993588#p1993588
So, I want to make this clear. I never said Contador would have won the tour de france this year if he hadn't crashed. I even wrote in a few threads that I think Froome would have won anyway so I didn't want to underrate him. The only reason why I wrote the comment was because it was a response to someone who said "Froome has shown that he is better than Contador" and imo that is simply wrong. If someone says Froome has shown that he is stronger than Bernhard Kohl it's also wrong. We can be pretty sure that it's the case but he didn't show it anywhere.
Froome has shown he's stronger than anybody in current peloton, including Contador! It dates from 2012 until now. He's the dominant GT rider today, like Contador was 2007-2011, Armstrong 1999-2005, Indurain 1991-1995, etc...
When I bring up the argument "Froome has never shown he is stronger than Contador because they never faced off when both were in top shape" you can't just counter the argument by saying "Froome has shown he is stronger than anybody". Discussing doesn't work like that. As I wrote in the other thread, show me one example where both were in top shape and rode against each other. There just isn't one.Mr.White said:Gigs_98 said:From another thread where it was off topic and I probably annoyed most people there with the topic.
viewtopic.php?p=1993588#p1993588
So, I want to make this clear. I never said Contador would have won the tour de france this year if he hadn't crashed. I even wrote in a few threads that I think Froome would have won anyway so I didn't want to underrate him. The only reason why I wrote the comment was because it was a response to someone who said "Froome has shown that he is better than Contador" and imo that is simply wrong. If someone says Froome has shown that he is stronger than Bernhard Kohl it's also wrong. We can be pretty sure that it's the case but he didn't show it anywhere.
Froome has shown he's stronger than anybody in current peloton, including Contador! It dates from 2012 until now. He's the dominant GT rider today, like Contador was 2007-2011, Armstrong 1999-2005, Indurain 1991-1995, etc...
hrotha said:Why the ****ing **** would you ****ing want to have that ****ing conversation about ****ing Froome vs ****ing Contador yet again.
Pantani Attacks said:Dauphine '14 and Vuelta '14 are the closest we've gotten, and Contador spanked Froome in both.
I also don't want to use those results since Froome crashed in the Dauphine 2014, and in the Vuelta that year both came back after an injury so we don't know how good they were.Pantani Attacks said:Dauphine '14 and Vuelta '14 are the closest we've gotten, and Contador spanked Froome in both.
Dauphine is only a preparation race. Contador also lost there in 2009.del1962 said:Pantani Attacks said:Dauphine '14 and Vuelta '14 are the closest we've gotten, and Contador spanked Froome in both.
He only beat Froome in Dauphine after Froome was effected by a bad crash, the Vuelta 14 was where both effected by crashes
Dauphine 2015 Froome beats Contador
del1962 said:Pantani Attacks said:Dauphine '14 and Vuelta '14 are the closest we've gotten, and Contador spanked Froome in both.
He only beat Froome in Dauphine after Froome was effected by a bad crash, the Vuelta 14 was where both effected by crashes
Dauphine 2015 Froome beats Contador
hrotha said:Why the ****ing **** would you ****ing want to have that ****ing conversation about ****ing Froome vs ****ing Contador yet again.
Gigs_98 said:When I bring up the argument "Froome has never shown he is stronger than Contador because they never faced off when both were in top shape" you can't just counter the argument by saying "Froome has shown he is stronger than anybody". Discussing doesn't work like that. As I wrote in the other thread, show me one example where both were in top shape and rode against each other. There just isn't one.Mr.White said:Gigs_98 said:From another thread where it was off topic and I probably annoyed most people there with the topic.
viewtopic.php?p=1993588#p1993588
So, I want to make this clear. I never said Contador would have won the tour de france this year if he hadn't crashed. I even wrote in a few threads that I think Froome would have won anyway so I didn't want to underrate him. The only reason why I wrote the comment was because it was a response to someone who said "Froome has shown that he is better than Contador" and imo that is simply wrong. If someone says Froome has shown that he is stronger than Bernhard Kohl it's also wrong. We can be pretty sure that it's the case but he didn't show it anywhere.
Froome has shown he's stronger than anybody in current peloton, including Contador! It dates from 2012 until now. He's the dominant GT rider today, like Contador was 2007-2011, Armstrong 1999-2005, Indurain 1991-1995, etc...