Garmin biggest cowards in today peloton

[FabulousCandelabra]

Wasn't JV simply telling Farrar not to go on the front and do any work? If Farrar put in efforts at the front, the race would have still ended the same way, only instead of getting 4th he would have gotten 40th at best. And there was a small chance he could have been in a bunch sprint for 1st, but only if he saved his energy. Who did Garmin have to throw into the chase? Thor didn't have the stamina to make a big contribution on the front.

This was George Hincapies last chance at a podium.

 

[Eric8-A]

Roger Hammond was good during the race. Even though he ended up being caught, he rode a good race.

I just wish JV would stop thinking that race for the podium or a top 10 is something to brag about and say they have the best team in the world. If I were to say who the biggest coward would be, it would be JV. He made Garmin just suck wheels and failed to do anything to animate the race. Tyler wanted to pull, he was feeling great. He should have just said F**k you, I want to do something and I don't care what you say. The outcome could have different for the team. Maybe not, but you never really know.

I just have this feeling that had Matty White been in the car instead of JV, things would have gone different.

And today, he truly was the most hated guy in the peloton. Notice how there are videos of him explaining what went wrong and on his Twitter account.

 

[red_flanders]

Video interview with JV about the race today, goes into some depth about what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFOHEZqyIR0

 

[M Sport]

Roger Hammond was good during the race. Even though he ended up being caught, he rode a good race.

I just wish JV would stop thinking that race for the podium or a top 10 is something to brag about and say they have the best team in the world. If I were to say who the biggest coward would be, it would be JV. He made Garmin just suck wheels and failed to do anything to animate the race. Tyler wanted to pull, he was feeling great. He should have just said F**k you, I want to do something and I don't care what you say. The outcome could have different for the team. Maybe not, but you never really know.

I just have this feeling that had Matty White been in the car instead of JV, things would have gone different.

And today, he truly was the most hated guy in the peloton. Notice how there are videos of him explaining what went wrong and on his Twitter account.

Nice summary. It's a sad reflection on this team that the hardest I have ever seen them pull was to prevent a guy from gaining a yellow jersey, not even a chance of winning the stage. Now he tells the team don't work, you're either sprinting for first or third, it doesn't matter which. Shameful team.

 

[Barrus]

I agree we don't know what else was said. But what we did hear, without exception, were all conformations to me that I want the communication from the car to the riders gone. Everything from the boring "next up is the ...berg and then the ...berg" to "up front are ... and ...." to "don't do any more work".

Riders who know the route well, riders who can keep an overview of the race themselves, and riders who can figure out the best race strategy for themselves after 200k [and teams that can organize themselves internally during a race so they can keep the internal communication lines going] all deserve an advantage in a race. THAT's what distinguishes a complete cyclist from an almost-there one.

I wasn't so much upset with JV for giving the probably only sensible instruction to the leftovers of a disappointing team. It wasn't what he said, it was that he said it. It was that he instructed his riders what to do, in no uncertain terms. Total control from the DS car, by the good man himself. After all the race radios "are not for strategy" PR bull**** he made me swallow, I want it even more now.

I hope the UCI will replay that moment over and over if he ever sits down around a table with them to talk radios.

I think this is the major issue people have with the statement of JV, together with what TFF wrote. It is just that this argument of TFF

. I think the issue was that we as fans were watching the race go up the road in a way most of us didn't want to see, and at that exact time, we hear JV telling his riders to quit riding and settle for whatever ended up happening instead of taking an active part in it.

coupled with the previous statements by JV and that he stated that tactics did not originate from the team car makes JV look like a total hypocrit for not letting his own riders decide on the course of action

 

[Benedict XVI]

Vaughters should stop talking - ban his radio!

The episode from Tour of Flanders, where Vaug was saying to Thor and Tyler to sit and wait for a bunch sprint has very disappointed me. I see why Vaughters is such a supporter of radios in the race - this person is just too full of himself.

It's ok to tell young riders what to do and when. But you don't tell world champion what to do in the race - THE WORLD CHAMP TELLS YOU what he wants to do! and you are supposed to shut up and nod.

Maybe, Garmin-Cervelo could have finished on a podium if they participated in the chase, but what really was bad is seeing how directeur sportive moves his riders like chess pieces

 

[Mellow Velo]

Video interview with JV about the race today, goes into some depth about what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFOHEZqyIR0

Listening to that, I'd say JV has given his "ride for third" speech, for Paris-Roubaix, on the Flanders team bus.

He doesn't seem to be able to put his finger on Garmin's problem, other than a combination of common ingredients that effect most teams.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Garmins ride is not surprising when you look at JV's comments about following fabian...

 

[Cimber]

Btw the Danish comentators on Eurosport summed up Garmin's problem as follows; "Too many chiefs, too few indians" (i.e too many stars, too few helpers)

 

[goggalor]

Btw the Danish comentators on Eurosport summed up Garmin's problem as follows; "Too many chiefs, too few indians" (i.e too many stars, too few helpers)

How are there too many chiefs if they only have 2 riders left in the group, and one is about to be dropped?

I understand people being upset during about this during the race, but when you know the full story it was clearly the right call, and had nothing to do with cowardice.

 

[Cimber]

How are there too many chiefs if they only have 2 riders left in the group, and one is about to be dropped?

I understand people being upset during about this during the race, but when you know the full story it was clearly the right call, and had nothing to do with cowardice.

Regarding the problem with too many chiefs and ppl getting dropped u have to look earlier in the race too. U need a few chiefs ofcourse, but in order to have them perform well u need some good indians too to keep them out of problems and to keep them out of the wind to conserve their energy so they arent dropped in the finale. Also with too many chiefs u get a bad team atmosphere and ppl lose motivation. When u lose motivation u also get dropped.

 

[Jamsque]

To be fair to Garmin, they were missing two key components of their classics team. Maaskaant is arguably their best rider on the cobbles and Millar is their best domestique. If those two weren't out injured and sick their classics campaign could have been completely different.

 

[R.0.t.O]

Of course it's the right tactic at that point with BMC putting seven guys on the front to get the break back, the race favourite up the road maybe using up his chances, and other favourites like Gilbert still waiting to go. You'd be stupid to randomly use up your riders doing a job that's already being done by others.

Problem is they couldn't follow on the Muur or the Bosberg so it's game over.

 

[Astana1]

Every sport has one or two teams that are well funded, seemingly have a wealth of talent and get exposure which is not commensurate or proportionate to their actual results. In professional cycling that team is Garmin.

In a way they have met catastrophic success publicity wise.

Personally, I think Jonathan Vaughters needs to get the hell out of team car and stay the hell out of the bus. He seems to be the common element of their mediocrity. If you want to see first hand how awful Vaughters is then just take a gander at the latest "Beyond the Peloton", his pep talk was creepy and it's no wonder that the team is the way it is.


See for yourself... awful awful awful and AWKWARD.

http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/video-documentaries/


It happens to be that many of my favorite riders ride for pre 2011 Garmin and the old Cervelo Test Team. When the team merged, I had hoped that Cervelo's mentality would rub off on the team and give Garmin that edge.

Vaughters has his merits. But he needs to get his hand out of the day to day racing piece and maybe hire someone who actually knows how to win.

Honestly, I think if he took Andreas Klier off the bike and stuck him in the team car, they would be better off. The Van Petegem hire didn't seem to do anything for them.

 

[Christian]

See for yourself... awful awful awful and AWKWARD.

http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/video-documentaries/

Lol I like Andreas Kiler's quote though:

"It's such a primitive sport ... just pedal and then we'll see"

 

[Astana1]

Lol I like Andreas Kiler's quote though:

"It's such a primitive sport ... just pedal and then we'll see"

How about when he calls our Thor, and Thor gives him a WTF sort of look and just says something like "it's the legs".

They looked beaten before MSR even started.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Every sport has one or two teams that are well funded, seemingly have a wealth of talent and get exposure which is not commensurate or proportionate to their actual results. In professional cycling that team is Garmin.

That's a bizarre statement.

Garmin have a good team and, over the last year and a bit, they've got good results. They have overperformed a little in some areas and underperformed in others, but it's not as if they have a squad full of former Grand Tour or Monument winners who are suddenly also rans. Look at their team. Their best riders are Hushovd, Farrar, Martin, Vande Velde, Hesjedal, Haussler, Le Mevel. All of them are excellent riders but not one of them is currently the very top guy in his specialty.

As for exposure, Vaughters is good at getting publicity for his team. That's part of his job.

 

[Astana1]

Lol I like Andreas Kiler's quote though:

"It's such a primitive sport ... just pedal and then we'll see"

It was a funny quote because it was in direct contradiction to what JV was putting out. JV kept talking about perfection and sticking to the plan. No plan truly survives contact with the competition. Which sort explains Garmin, when things don't go according to their plan they just throw their hands up and surrender.

Klier seems to have something more flexible in mind.

 

[Astana1]

That's a bizarre statement.

Garmin have a good team and, over the last year and a bit, they've got good results. They have overperformed a little in some areas and underperformed in others, but it's not as if they have a squad full of former Grand Tour or Monument winners who are suddenly also rans. Look at their team. Their best riders are Hushovd, Farrar, Martin, Vande Velde, Hesjedal, Haussler, Le Mevel. All of them are excellent riders but not one of them is currently the very top guy in his specialty.

As for exposure, Vaughters is good at getting publicity for his team. That's part of his job.

I said JV has some really valid merits. I just don't think he does a good job on the road, in the car or in the bus. He's the wrong guy to be executing those duties in my opinion. The results speak for themselves.

They haven't won a monument and they haven't even won a stage of the TdF. Yet they get tons of attention and never deliver.

They have a reigning World Champion on their squad. And some pretty capable riders. Yet they only seem to win when their best competition isn't present or isn't on form.

What's their biggest win? Some stages at the Giro and the Vuelta? Vattenfall Cyclassics? The Tour of Missouri?

They haven't really won anything remarkable yet they get tons of pub which is disproportionate to what their actual success that's all I am saying.

 

[Anonymous]

I said JV has some really valid merits. I just don't think he does a good job on the road, in the car or in the bus.

If I were in the market for a good wine or book on French cheese, I would be sure to ask him.

 

[sublimit]

To be fair to Garmin, they were missing two key components of their classics team. Maaskaant is arguably their best rider on the cobbles and Millar is their best domestique. If those two weren't out injured and sick their classics campaign could have been completely different.

They were doing well with a strong ride from Hammond to set them up, Dan Lloyd was looking Ok but managed to come off after getting up to the front, everything seemed to fall apart after that.

But yes Dave Millar and Maakant would of improved their chances.
In hindsight it seems the Garmin leaders didnt quite have the legs apart from Tyler. Probably pulling his earpieces out would of improved his chances but we will never know.

 

[Astana1]

If I were in the market for a good wine or book on French cheese, I would be sure to ask him.

What, you wouldn't take his fashion or grooming tips?

 

[Eyeballs Out]

It's hard to fathom how they crumbled so badly yesterday. Perhaps they have a bug going round. Millar was sick recently wasn't he ? Haussler and Vanmarcke put up good efforts in E3 and then complete no-shows yesterday, Klier was 4th over the Kemmel wasn't he - then disappeared. Hammond looks well below last year's level. As for for Hushovd, he's either bluffing with no cards or playing a very patient game but I can't see how he can go from getting no results this spring to winning P-R

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

The results speak for themselves.

They haven't won a monument and they haven't even won a stage of the TdF. Yet they get tons of attention and never deliver.

You are conflating two different things.

1) Do Garmin underperform their resources. I don't think they do. They have a good team, not a great one, and they get good results, not great ones.

They win a lot (indeed they have more wins in the first bit of this year than some Pro Tour teams managed all last year) and they win some pretty decent races, but they don't have a really top class win, a GT or Monument for instance. If you look at their squad and you look at their results, they have overperformed in some areas and underperformed in others, but overall their results are in keeping with the quality of their squad.

2) Do Garmin get disproportionate amounts of publicity as compared to their results. Yes, they probably do. You shouldn't be complaining about Garmin having an effective PR approach and getting lots of publicity though, you should be complaining about the teams with amateurish PR approaches who get less publicity than their riders deserve. Getting publicity is something Garmin is good at, and I say fair play to them. I wish more cycling teams were good at it.

 

[Astana1]

You are conflating two different things.

1) Do Garmin underperform their resources. I don't think they do. They have a good team, not a great one, and they get good results, not great ones.

They win a lot (indeed they have more wins in the first bit of this year than some Pro Tour teams managed all last year) and they win some pretty decent races, but they don't have a really top class win, a GT or Monument for instance. If you look at their squad and you look at their results, they have overperformed in some areas and underperformed in others, but overall their results are in keeping with the quality of their squad.

2) Do Garmin get disproportionate amounts of publicity as compared to their results. Yes, they probably do. You shouldn't be complaining about Garmin having an effective PR approach and getting lots of publicity though, you should be complaining about the teams with amateurish PR approaches who get less publicity than their riders deserve. Getting publicity is something Garmin is good at, and I say fair play to them. I wish more cycling teams were good at it.

1. Up until this season, you could make an argument that they have made chicken salad out of chicke sh*t. But even still for a team that truly does not even have one big win and has mastered the art of second and third place, they get too much attention.

HTC actuall wins races. Lots of em. Big ones too. It comes as naturally as breathing for them and you can throw out Cav's wins and it wouldn't shock me if they still won more than Garmin. That team does not have a winning mentality.

And it starts at the top.

2. If you can recognize that Garmin truly isn't a good team and that it gets tons of attention then that it is fair.

But you seem to have lower standards as to what constitutes success at the top level. I judge success by wins. Big wins that are meaningful in that they consistently outwit, outlast and outrace the best.

Their sponsors should be overjoyed simply because they get huge ROI despite the fact that Garmin doesn't really win all that much.