Garmin biggest cowards in today peloton

[maltiv]

Basically Hushovd had three options:

- Help Cancellara in the chase, get hated for chasing back his own teammate.
- Sit behind Cancellara and not contribute to the chase, get hated for wheelsucking.
- Get dropped on purpose to avoid the dilemma and get hated for sucking.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

I really don't understand what the fuzz about Hushovd wheelsucking is all about???

When you're teammate (with several top10 places in the past) is in the winning position. How can you even consider helping last years winner catching that teammate?

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

i saw that and can only guess that he didn't want a smaller bike??? and even i didn't understand his decision.

The teammate offered him a wheel of course, but it was a chain/bike problem.

 

[Mambo95]

I really don't understand what the fuzz about Hushovd wheelsucking is all about???

It's because cycling is a 'Professional Team Sport', but some people can only see the last of those three words.

 

[md2020]

I like Vroomen's response to the criticism:

http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/news-blog/rider-blogs/article/sprinter-vs-rouleur/2689/

"Well, that Paris-Roubaix certainly unleashed some emotions. Some are upset with Thor for not working with Cancellara. Five things on that:


1. Thor had his teammates Sep Vanmarcke and Gabriel Rasch work to narrow the gap on the front group. Why didn’t Cancellara have his teammates help? Oh that’s right, they weren’t there. It’s not Thor’s fault that Cancellara moved to Leopard, he had offers from Sky and BMC, both of which have strong classics teams.

2. When the gap wasn’t closed, should Thor do the work himself to close down the gap? I think it has been the case for 100 years that if you have a sprinter and a rouleur, the rouleur needs to try and drop the sprinter before they get to the finish. Remember Paris-Roubaix with Van Steenbergen and Coppi out in front? Van Steenbergen won the sprint (expectedly) but said afterwards: “If Fausto had jumped one more time, I would have had to let him go, I was done.” To which Coppi replied: “If I had been able to jump once more, I would have.”

3. It seems Cancellara and l’Equipe feel that Thor should pull Cancellara to the front group and waste his energy so that Cancellara can then jump away from him. Only a dumb rider would do that, and Thor ain’t dumb.

4. If Cancellara was really that strong, he would have dropped Thor on the cobbles. He didn’t, in fact Thor followed with relative ease. Now he dropped him on the final drag. Thor was caught out of position there and made Flecha try to close the gap first, who couldn’t. Could Thor have? If he had been in position, maybe.

5. In the end, Cancellara can complain all he wants but he himself chose his team, he chose to show off his strength at E3 and make himself the absolute top favorite. Despite that, the other teams basically handed him the win in Flanders with their early-race tactics but he over-estimated his strength in trying a 50k breakaway. In Roubaix, I don’t think he was on Superman form and combined with being outnumbered it was going to be very difficult in any scenario. I can understand that he is frustrated for being the strongest rider in the Spring and not winning any of the big races, but he can’t complain that his competitors didn’t help him. Last time I checked that’s not their job. Maybe he’ll do Amstel and/or LBL and win there."

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

This is such an absurd discussion.

This thread was created after RVV btw, not after PR.

 

[Angliru]

^^ (@ md2020)That pretty much sums it up quite well. Thanks for posting that!

 

[Anonymous]

I like Vroomen's response to the criticism:

http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/news-blog/rider-blogs/article/sprinter-vs-rouleur/2689/

"Well, that Paris-Roubaix certainly unleashed some emotions. Some are upset with Thor for not working with Cancellara. Five things on that:


1. Thor had his teammates Sep Vanmarcke and Gabriel Rasch work to narrow the gap on the front group. Why didn’t Cancellara have his teammates help? Oh that’s right, they weren’t there. It’s not Thor’s fault that Cancellara moved to Leopard, he had offers from Sky and BMC, both of which have strong classics teams.

2. When the gap wasn’t closed, should Thor do the work himself to close down the gap? I think it has been the case for 100 years that if you have a sprinter and a rouleur, the rouleur needs to try and drop the sprinter before they get to the finish. Remember Paris-Roubaix with Van Steenbergen and Coppi out in front? Van Steenbergen won the sprint (expectedly) but said afterwards: “If Fausto had jumped one more time, I would have had to let him go, I was done.” To which Coppi replied: “If I had been able to jump once more, I would have.”

3. It seems Cancellara and l’Equipe feel that Thor should pull Cancellara to the front group and waste his energy so that Cancellara can then jump away from him. Only a dumb rider would do that, and Thor ain’t dumb.

4. If Cancellara was really that strong, he would have dropped Thor on the cobbles. He didn’t, in fact Thor followed with relative ease. Now he dropped him on the final drag. Thor was caught out of position there and made Flecha try to close the gap first, who couldn’t. Could Thor have? If he had been in position, maybe.

5. In the end, Cancellara can complain all he wants but he himself chose his team, he chose to show off his strength at E3 and make himself the absolute top favorite. Despite that, the other teams basically handed him the win in Flanders with their early-race tactics but he over-estimated his strength in trying a 50k breakaway. In Roubaix, I don’t think he was on Superman form and combined with being outnumbered it was going to be very difficult in any scenario. I can understand that he is frustrated for being the strongest rider in the Spring and not winning any of the big races, but he can’t complain that his competitors didn’t help him. Last time I checked that’s not their job. Maybe he’ll do Amstel and/or LBL and win there."

Case.Closed.

 

[Cobblestoned]

@Buffalo Soldier

And it was clear since creation of thread and post Nr.1, that Garmin would win Roubaix - the biggest one.
Now just some bad stubborn losers keep on bashing, whining and talking nonsense. And not just meaning RVV.

btw, thank you Mr.Vroomen. I'll think about riding a Cervelo.

 

[Barrus]

I like Vroomen's response to the criticism:

http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/news-blog/rider-blogs/article/sprinter-vs-rouleur/2689/

"Well, that Paris-Roubaix certainly unleashed some emotions. Some are upset with Thor for not working with Cancellara. Five things on that:


1. Thor had his teammates Sep Vanmarcke and Gabriel Rasch work to narrow the gap on the front group. Why didn’t Cancellara have his teammates help? Oh that’s right, they weren’t there. It’s not Thor’s fault that Cancellara moved to Leopard, he had offers from Sky and BMC, both of which have strong classics teams.

"

The problem with this is that Vanmarcke and Rasch were working even while Van Summeren was alone at the front.

 

[Mambo95]

The problem with this is that Vanmarcke and Rasch were working even while Van Summeren was alone at the front.

He says 'narrow the gap', not 'close the gap'. The difference between which has been previously explained by a couple of posters on this thread (basically, make sure both plans stay in play, but don't have one sabotage the other)

 

[Rocksteady]

The problem with this is that Vanmarcke and Rasch were working even while Van Summeren was alone at the front.

I'm not sure but I think this was a ploy. Vanmarke and Rasch didn't take any significant time on Van Summeren, but did keep that bunch from attacking and pulling. 2 guys with little effort is better than Canc attacking again.

I think JV's commented that he convinced Canc to let Vanmarke pull the group when Canc was whining. He never promised to pull hard.

 

[Escarabajo]

I'm not sure but I think this was a ploy. Vanmarke and Rasch didn't take any significant time on Van Summeren, but did keep that bunch from attacking and pulling. 2 guys with little effort is better than Canc attacking again.

I think JV's commented that he convinced Canc to let Vanmarke pull the group when Canc was whining. He never promised to pull hard.

LOL.

I wondered what the discussion was about. For some reason those two never made any ground on the breakaway. Cance should have known better.

 

[pedaling squares]

The winning move is made at le Carrefour de l'Arbre.

Cancellara wheelsucking Hushovd.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I'm not sure but I think this was a ploy. Vanmarke and Rasch didn't take any significant time on Van Summeren, but did keep that bunch from attacking and pulling. 2 guys with little effort is better than Canc attacking again.

I think JV's commented that he convinced Canc to let Vanmarke pull the group when Canc was whining. He never promised to pull hard.

+1000

The problem here is, that we still have some guys here who still have got a lot to learn.

 

[Oldman]

True. Spelling never has been a strong suit of mine. Prolly should refrain from posting after a few adult beverages as well.

Never stopped me but that's all too obvious.

 

[veganrob]

Case.Closed.

Hell yes. Bam

 

[M Sport]

Case.Closed.

Yes please. And thanks Md2020 for the link, that is exactly what some of us argued here the morning after the race.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

1. Thor had his teammates Sep Vanmarcke and Gabriel Rasch work to narrow the gap on the front group.

2. When the gap wasn’t closed, should Thor do the work himself to close down the gap? I think it has been the case for 100 years that if you have a sprinter and a rouleur, the rouleur needs to try and drop the sprinter before they get to the finish. Remember Paris-Roubaix with Van Steenbergen and Coppi out in front? Van Steenbergen won the sprint (expectedly) but said afterwards: “If Fausto had jumped one more time, I would have had to let him go, I was done.” To which Coppi replied: “If I had been able to jump once more, I would have.”

This just shows that those of you who were arguing that Garmin were just trying to keep Thor close to the lead group in case JVS didn't have it were wrong (unsurprisingly). It's quite clear from the quote above that the intent was to bring Thor to the lead group. "Thor had his teammates... work to narrow the gap on the front group. When the gap wasn’t closed, should Thor do the work himself to close down the gap?" This is followed by a justification of not cooperating by playing the sprinter vs roleur card rather than Thor having JvS in the front group. The latter isn't even mentioned. What more do you need?

What it comes down to is Thor being too scared of Fabian (perhaps for good reason) to take a single shift at the front. JvS didn't win thanks to Garmin's tactics working like a charm, but because of:

A) His own strength.
B) Thor's helpers not being more helpful (otherwise, Cancellara would've bridged on his own).
C) Thor being a shameless wheelsucker (and not because of Summie).

It seems Cancellara and l’Equipe feel that Thor should pull Cancellara to the front group and waste his energy so that Cancellara can then jump away from him. Only a dumb rider would do that, and Thor ain’t dumb.

Pull Cancellara to the front group? Nonsense! Thor wouldn't have needed to do one tenth the work Canc did to reach the lead group. Not wheelsucking Fabian 100% of the time doesn't constitute pulling him to the front group.

If Cancellara was really that strong, he would have dropped Thor on the cobbles. He didn’t, in fact Thor followed with relative ease. Now he dropped him on the final drag. Thor was caught out of position there and made Flecha try to close the gap first, who couldn’t. Could Thor have? If he had been in position, maybe.

If Thor was following Cancellara with relative ease, he wouldn't have been too terrified to stick his nose out in the wind at least once when the gap was nearly closed and Fabian was getting frustrated by his two stalkers.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This just shows that those of you who were arguing that Garmin were just trying to keep Thor close to the lead group in case JVS didn't have it were wrong (unsurprisingly). It's quite clear from the quote above that the intent was to bring Thor to the lead group. "Thor had his teammates... work to narrow the gap on the front group. When the gap wasn’t closed, should Thor do the work himself to close down the gap?" This is followed by a justification of not cooperating by playing the sprinter vs roleur card rather than Thor having JvS in the front group. The latter isn't even mentioned. What more do you need?

What it comes down to is Thor being too scared of Fabian (perhaps for good reason) to take a single shift at the front. JvS didn't win thanks to Garmin's tactics working like a charm, but because of:

A) His own strength.
B) Thor's helpers not being more helpful (otherwise, Cancellara would've bridged on his own).
C) Thor being a shameless wheelsucker (and not because of Summie).



Pull Cancellara to the front group? Nonsense! Thor wouldn't have needed to do one tenth the work Canc did to reach the lead group. Not wheelsucking Fabian 100% of the time doesn't constitute pulling him to the front group.



If Thor was following Cancellara with relative ease, he wouldn't have been too terrified to stick his nose out in the wind at least once when the gap was nearly closed and Fabian was getting frustrated by his two stalkers.

You know when I read your post and in particular the GV 'quotes' I was wondering how I didn't get that from his comments.

But then I reread GVs comments - with the bits you cut out.

In No.1 GV says they had the team "narrow" the gap - which is not "close" the gap.
As I said 2 days ago, this was to keep the break within striking distance.

In point 2 GV says "When the gap wasn't closed".... well it was not up to Garmin nor was it their intention, to close it.
(see GVs point 1 on Cancellara not having any team mates).

 

[cineteq]

It comes down to this:

"Depending on whose viewpoint you want to believe, the Garmin-Cervélo team was either (1) totally brilliant in engineering Johan Van Summeren’s solo win at Roubaix Sunday afternoon or (2) toxically negative in stopping its world road champion Thor Hushovd from racing with Leopard-Trek’s world time trial champ Fabian Cancellara, resulting in a lesser rider winning the sport’s most prestigious one-day prize."

I picked (2).

 

[Granville57]

It comes down to this:

Nope. It comes down to this:

 

[autologous]

It comes down to this:

"Depending on whose viewpoint you want to believe, the Garmin-Cervélo team was either (1) totally brilliant in engineering Johan Van Summeren’s solo win at Roubaix Sunday afternoon or (2) toxically negative in stopping its world road champion Thor Hushovd from racing with Leopard-Trek’s world time trial champ Fabian Cancellara, resulting in a lesser rider winning the sport’s most prestigious one-day prize."

I picked (2).

no, it comes down to :

Despite his wasteful show of bravado in E3, his being clearly the strongest, a gladiator!, yet managing to somehow lose RVV, his resultant threats and chest-thumping leading up to Paris Roubaix, ("if I’m at 100 percent they have to fasten their seatbelts, like on an aeroplane”) , was Cancellara strong enough to drop Hushovd when it counted?

No.
----
edit: and what Granvile said.

 

[Willy_Voet]

It comes down to this:

"Depending on whose viewpoint you want to believe, the Garmin-Cervélo team was either (1) totally brilliant in engineering Johan Van Summeren’s solo win at Roubaix Sunday afternoon or (2) toxically negative in stopping its world road champion Thor Hushovd from racing with Leopard-Trek’s world time trial champ Fabian Cancellara, resulting in a lesser rider winning the sport’s most prestigious one-day prize."

I picked (2).

You picked wrong. Van Summeren has been knocking on the door for a few years now. Granted in 2010 he was a DNF. However...

2009:

1 Tom Boonen (Bel) Quick Step
2 Filippo Pozzato (Ita) Team Katusha
3 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team
4 Leif Hoste (Bel) Silence-Lotto
5 Johan Van Summeren (Bel) Silence-Lotto
6 Juan Antonio Flecha (Spa) Rabobank
7 Heinrich Haussler (Ger) Cervelo Test Team
8 Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) Quick Step
9 Manuel Quinziato (Ita) Liquigas
10 Matti Breschel (Den) Team Saxo Bank

2008:

1 Tom Boonen (Bel) Quick Step
2 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team CSC
3 Alessandro Ballan (Ita) Lampre
4 Martijn Maaskant (Ned) Slipstream Chipotle Presented
5 Stuart O'Grady (Aus) Team CSC
6 Leif Hoste (Bel) Silence - Lotto
7 Stijn Devolder (Bel) Quick Step
8 Johan Van Summeren (Bel) Silence - Lotto
9 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
10 Fabio Baldato (Ita) Lampre

That's pretty good company for a "lesser rider"

 

[barn yard]

The problem with this is that Vanmarcke and Rasch were working even while Van Summeren was alone at the front.

i think what garmin will not admit was at this point they had no faith in JVS to win the whole thing, and were still planning to take thor up the road... lucky for them it turned out how it did