Garmin biggest cowards in today peloton

[Astana1]

I agree with all of that. And still, Garmin could have lost everything when Hushovd lost Cancellara's wheel. JVS had a slow puncture and won by only 19 seconds. With a little bit of bad luck, Hushovd's inattentiveness would have cost Garmin the victory. He should have paid attention, and he had the legs as he admitted himself.

Can't argue with that.

 

[Benotti69]

I agree with all of that. And still, Garmin could have lost everything when Hushovd lost Cancellara's wheel. JVS had a slow puncture and won by only 19 seconds. With a little bit of bad luck, Hushovd's inattentiveness would have cost Garmin the victory. He should have paid attention, and he had the legs as he admitted himself.

I think Canc threw the race away when he stopped and started arguing with JV. I felt if he kept on chasing and caught the break he still could've dropped everyone and rode to victory by catching VS before the velodrome and considering the slow puncture dropped him or beaten him in the sprint.

But all IFs

 

[cineteq]

With a little bit of bad luck, Hushovd's inattentiveness would have cost Garmin the victory. He should have paid attention, and he had the legs as he admitted himself.

Yet that was another reason why Garmin tactics were far from being brilliant as many try to put it. They were the strongest team on paper (as they have been in previous races and lost), and yet they were lucky to come out with the win.

 

[cineteq]

Things I've learned in this thread:

1. Putting a rider or two in the break is not honorable because then you don't have to pull.

2. It's a good thing for a rider to chase his teammate down if that results in benefitting a certain swiss rider that you have a mancrush on.

2a. If you are wearing a rainbow jersey then normal principles of cycling tactics don't apply, this is even more true if you are more of a sprinter and you are expected to drop the most powerful rouleur in all of cycling.

3. It's possible to read Van Petegem's mind and determine that he had no confidence in a rider with two top tens in PR.

4. Road Racing isn't actually a team sport.

What have I missed?

Good points, clear...Your 4th is totally true.

 

[GoGarmin]

Things I've learned in this thread:

1. Putting a rider or two in the break is not honorable because then you don't have to pull.

2. It's a good thing for a rider to chase his teammate down if that results in benefitting a certain swiss rider that you have a mancrush on.

2a. If you are wearing a rainbow jersey then normal principles of cycling tactics don't apply, this is even more true if you are more of a sprinter and you are expected to drop the most powerful rouleur in all of cycling.

3. It's possible to read Van Petegem's mind and determine that he had no confidence in a rider with two top tens in PR.

4. Road Racing isn't actually a team sport.

What have I missed?

Quoted for truth.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I agree with all of that. And still, Garmin could have lost everything when Hushovd lost Cancellara's wheel. JVS had a slow puncture and won by only 19 seconds. With a little bit of bad luck, Hushovd's inattentiveness would have cost Garmin the victory. He should have paid attention, and he had the legs as he admitted himself.

While thats true enough - when you're drawing up tactics you don't add in luck.
Certainly true about Hushvod not being attentive by following Flecha not Cancellara, but they were already fighting for 2nd (unless JVS fell on his ****)

Also if JVS hadn't a puncture he would have soloed in to Roubaix with a 40 second advantage.

 

[Anonymous]

Yet that was another reason why Garmin tactics were far from being brilliant as many try to put it. They were the strongest team on paper (as they have been in previous races and lost), and yet they were lucky to come out with the win.

This is a stupid assessment. Simply dumb. Every race has an infinite number of things that COULD have happened that would have meant their rider lost. To believe that there is any team and any strategy that can calculate every variable and counter any that would deny your team the win is to show a complete lack of comprehension of reality. They were the smartest, and best placed team on the day. The strategy they employed worked. Could things have been different? Yes, drastically...in an infinite number of ways. Look up the term "infinite" because I don't use it figuratively, I am using it in its literal sense.

Grow up.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yet that was another reason why Garmin tactics were far from being brilliant as many try to put it. They were the strongest team on paper (as they have been in previous races and lost), and yet they were lucky to come out with the win.

Lucky?!

You need some luck to win Paris Roubaix (or more accurately you hope to avoid bad luck) - but there is no lucky winner to a race like that.

 

[Willy_Voet]

Lucky?!

You need some luck to win Paris Roubaix (or more accurately you hope to avoid bad luck) - but there is no lucky winner to a race like that.

Does anyone remember interviews with Johan Museeuw back in the mid-90's?

[squeaky voice]

Mmmm, for to win Roubaix, mmmm, you need much lucky. I am hoping to have, mmmm, much lucky. Last week, mmm, I did not have the lucky. Team is guut, my legs are guut. I just need the lucky today.

[/squeaky voice]

 

[cineteq]

This is a stupid assessment. Simply dumb. Every race has an infinite number of things that COULD have happened that would have meant their rider lost. To believe that there is any team and any strategy that can calculate every variable and counter any that would deny your team the win is to show a complete lack of comprehension of reality. They were the smartest, and best placed team on the day. The strategy they employed worked. Could things have been different? Yes, drastically...in an infinite number of ways. Look up the term "infinite" because I don't use it figuratively, I am using it in its literal sense.

Grow up.

So here we are, dumb and dumber (you).
If you missed it, we were talking about the best shot you can have at a race with your best man, and not the infinite possibilities.
That's the bottom line.
If you are a JV fan, then that's another story.

PS: Actually I need to grow down

 

[Anonymous]

You're comments are imbecilically (not a real word) simple and ignorant...ergo...well, you do the math.

What is funny is that this is all sour grapes by people who either don't like Garmin, or are fans of another rider who didn't stand on the top step last Sunday. Either way, JVS won. Period. Go check the results if you don't believe me. Stupid people whine about how that was done because the last time I checked, winning races was the whole point of competitive cycling...not helping the strongest rider in the field have the best sporting chance to win. Canc is a whiny little diva who stupidly chose a ridiculously weak classics team. Canc lost that race at the end of last summer when he chose Leopard.

True.

Similarly stupid arguments were being made a few years ago when Devolder won The Ronde. "Boonen should have chased down Devolder.... and won with panache...."

The team won. Sponsors are happy. Everyone's paycheck does not bounce. Scoreboard is all that matters.

Also, I think FC chose LeOtard because of the cache and not the team built around him. It suggests that he reads too many of his own press clippings.

 

[Anonymous]

So here we are, dumb and dumber (you).
If you missed it, we were talking about the best shot you can have at a race with your best man, and not the infinite possibilities.
That's the bottom line.

If you are a JV fan, then that's another story.

PS: Actually I need to grow down

Remind me please... who won the race??

That's the bottom, bottom line.

 

[Anonymous]

So here we are, dumb and dumber (you).
If you missed it, we were talking about the best shot you can have at a race with your best man, and not the infinite possibilities.
That's the bottom line.
If you are a JV fan, then that's another story.

PS: Actually I need to grow down

The best shot they had in the race that materialized (not the fantasy one in your head where the gap was closed on the break and everything turned out all rosebuds and anal beads for Canc or Thor) is JVS...as evidenced by the FACT THAT HE WON.

That you do not realize you are talking infinite variables is not my problem. I guess they don't teach argument assessment where you live?

And I am no JV fan. Go look up the posts I have made directly to him. I think you will see that I have addressed him rather curtly, but why let facts get in your way? You aren't arguing those on any level, why start now?

 

[The Sheep]

Do you think the cameras in the cars in the RVV may have helped Garmin win in Roubaix? Without those images there wouldn't have been much of an indignation in the press about Vaughters tactics and Cancellara might have not started arguing with them during Roubaix.

 

[filipo]

I feel bad for JVS. Homeboy wins the biggest race of his life -- really, one of the biggest moments of his life, so big he ****es out a marriage proposal to his longtime-perfectly-happy-to-not-be-married girlfriend -- and all anybody can talk about is how it should have turned out differently. Pure class.

Also: Wilcockson is the king of all fish-wrap hacks. Retire, hack -- put it to bed. Open a hotel, a Trek-sponsored bike tour business, whatever. Just shut it. Talk about press-box blinders, sheesh. His race analysis was on par with -- well, on par with someone who knows fuch all about bike racing.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Things I've learned in this thread:

1. Putting a rider or two in the break is not honorable because then you don't have to pull.

2. It's a good thing for a rider to chase his teammate down if that results in benefitting a certain swiss rider that you have a mancrush on.

2a. If you are wearing a rainbow jersey then normal principles of cycling tactics don't apply, this is even more true if you are more of a sprinter and you are expected to drop the most powerful rouleur in all of cycling.

3. It's possible to read Van Petegem's mind and determine that he had no confidence in a rider with two top tens in PR.

4. Road Racing isn't actually a team sport.

What have I missed?

great post

 

[Astana1]

I feel bad for JVS. Homeboy wins the biggest race of his life -- really, one of the biggest moments of his life, so big he ****es out a marriage proposal to his longtime-perfectly-happy-to-not-be-married girlfriend -- and all anybody can talk about is how it should have turned out differently. Pure class.

Also: Wilcockson is the king of all fish-wrap hacks. Retire, hack -- put it to bed. Open a hotel, a Trek-sponsored bike tour business, whatever. Just shut it. Talk about press-box blinders, sheesh. His race analysis was on par with -- well, on par with someone who knows fuch all about bike racing.

Agreed. He sold out his journalistic integrity years ago.

 

[Astana1]

The best shot they had in the race that materialized (not the fantasy one in your head where the gap was closed on the break and everything turned out all rosebuds and anal beads for Canc or Thor) is JVS...as evidenced by the FACT THAT HE WON.

That you do not realize you are talking infinite variables is not my problem. I guess they don't teach argument assessment where you live?

And I am no JV fan. Go look up the posts I have made directly to him. I think you will see that I have addressed him rather curtly, but why let facts get in your way? You aren't arguing those on any level, why start now?

I slammed Garmin and JV after RVV in this very thread. I still believe what I said, JV should get his **** out of the car and stop making tactical decisions during races. Garmin has developed a "soft" reputation over the years and it starts at the top with him. And you have to wonder what the hell Matt White was doing other then doling out room assignments each night.

He's done some great things at the executive level, but I think he is doing his team a disservice by getting his hands dirty in the team car. He should stop trying to be the General Manager and the coach and just focus on being the General Manager.

 

[Astana1]

Pretty funny Toto..

http://nyvelocity.com/toto

 

[Anonymous]

One final message for the Fabio/Leopard/Trek fans: Van Summeren, from GARMIN/CERVELO won P-R. Nuyens from SAXO won RVV, Goss from HTC won MSR, Fabio didn't win any of those races this year. SUCK.IT.LOSERS.

 

[sublimit]

Do you think the cameras in the cars in the RVV may have helped Garmin win in Roubaix? Without those images there wouldn't have been much of an indignation in the press about Vaughters tactics and Cancellara might have not started arguing with them during Roubaix.

I'm not sure - probably not. Garmin riders were useless there anyway so what Vaughters was saying is irrelevant.

But I think they learned that you have to have riders up the road and in contention to have a chance to win. They do have strength in depth even if the main Garmin stars are misfiring and so got themselves a win.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Another tactical masterclass from Garmin yesterday.

 

[thehog]

Another tactical masterclass from Garmin yesterday.

Dan Martin has shown Thor the right attitude of a dissapointed cyclist. Go out and win. Legend.

 

[El Pistolero]

Dan Martin has shown Thor the right attitude of a dissapointed cyclist. Go out and win. Legend.

And Vaughters has shown what a mastermind he is for picking Haussler in the Vuelta team.

 

[hrotha]

And Vaughters has shown what a mastermind he is for picking Haussler in the Vuelta team.

Much of his reasoning, at least in public, was that this will make Haussler stronger in the early 2012 season.