GB Track Team

[Dalakhani]

Really, fundamentals of sport science don't change overday

Technology does. The ability to collect data does.

.. neither do they get developed by 1 track team in particular.

Why ever not?

 

[lemoogle]

Only really works if you include non-Olympic events as well.



Great then you will know that we have a 19 year old (German) riding man 1 and that since 2008 man 1 has been a massive problem for our team sprint.

You will also know that half our team pursuit team didn't focus on the track until the last 6 months or so (and that half of them rode in the previous world record).

Yep, completely implausible and out of nowhere....

Then you will know that hindes wasn't the fastest choice when he was picked for team GB ( much like froomey was for sky)
Then you will also know that hindes WAS there at the world championships this year, and that 3 months later hindes is now a better 1 than Bauge if you look at his olympic times, but that's also clearly normal, who am I to find that suspicious anyway.

And yes they did ride the previous world record. So you're saying in 6 months training they can destroy their own world record multiple times? what about previous years? I'm pretty sure they had to train to retain their world titles. Also that means they only needed two months of training to beat their own world world record in Melbourne. hey you said it yourself.

 

[2008885]

they've ALWAYS been doped.

Why "always" ?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

T
Then you will also know that hindes WAS there at the world championships this year, and that 3 months later hindes is now a better 1 than Bauge if you look at his olympic times, but that's also clearly normal, who am I to find that suspicious anyway.

Didn't GB get relegated in the worlds for an illegal cross over otherwise they would have made the final?

Does Bauge still use a big gear on his team sprint. Certainly, in the sprint he takes a little while to wind up.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

You guys are too quick I modified the post asap, honest!

Or we really should get out more

 

[the big ring]

Laura Trott makes Clancy look like a beginner ;-)

 

[lemoogle]

Why "always" ?

Sorry I meant to say , that "every time" that's happened in road cycling , then it came out that they were doped . Forgive my English.

 

[lemoogle]

Didn't GB get relegated in the worlds for an illegal cross over otherwise they would have made the final?

Does Bauge still use a big gear on his team sprint. Certainly, in the sprint he takes a little while to wind up.

They wouldn't have made the final no not as I recall. Bronze final maybe. Fourth time I think.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

They wouldn't have made the final no not as I recall. Bronze final maybe. Fourth time I think.

As I recall they made the final but were relegated. Aus then got promoted to the final and beat France by a fraction.

 

[lemoogle]

As I recall they made the final but were relegated. Aus then got promoted to the final and beat France by a fraction.

Germany got relegated from the final, Team GB from the bronze final.

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/gb...UCI-Track-Cycling-World-Championships-Day-1-0

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Germany got relegated from the final, Team GB from the bronze final.

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/gb...UCI-Track-Cycling-World-Championships-Day-1-0

Ah, ok. You were right then.

 

[red_death]

Then you will know that hindes wasn't the fastest choice when he was picked for team GB ( much like froomey was for sky)
Then you will also know that hindes WAS there at the world championships this year, and that 3 months later hindes is now a better 1 than Bauge if you look at his olympic times, but that's also clearly normal, who am I to find that suspicious anyway.

Of course I know - he was 18/19 and just starting out. Making those sorts of improvements isn't that unbelievable at that age.

He rode 17.515 to Bauge's 17.367 in Melbourne. I know Hindes improved (though the London track is clearly faster) but I don't know Bauge's split in the Olympics.

And yes they did ride the previous world record. So you're saying in 6 months training they can destroy their own world record multiple times? what about previous years? I'm pretty sure they had to train to retain their world titles. Also that means they only needed two months of training to beat their own world world record in Melbourne. hey you said it yourself.

Oh no, you have caught me out...or taken things out of context. Aus won the team pursuit in 2011 so GB didn't "retain" their title. The 2012 TP when they broke their own record was the first time in a while that Thomas and Kennaugh had really trained specifically for the track (as opposed to non-track specific training). If you can't understand that does not mean the same as not training then I can't help you...

 

[wannab]

Well there is absolutely no reason why one track team couldn't develop its own work, but aside from that you are completely missing the point.

It is about trying to find the best solutions for all areas of a particular sport. Even if you can manage that then you still have the problem of adapting lots of variables for individuals.

Even then it is highly unlikely that you will find the best solution in every area for every individual, but even if you did you will still see differences in the results for a simple reason - genetics. If you didn't then sport would be boring.

Their's a BIG difference between developing a work method and the science behind it. You, Dalakhan, .. (Sky) say that the science part is where Team GB stands out on.

They achieved this by working on the science of the sport

Your post above seems to agree that it's not about the fundamental science behind it but in applying that science ..

Saying team GB has superior SPORT SCIENCE knowledge is a long shot which we simply can not know. I would find it weird out of all the sport scientists in the world only team GB has the most knowledgeable ones.

 

[red_death]

Their's a BIG difference between developing a work method and the science behind it. You, Dalakhan, .. (Sky) say that the science part is where Team GB stands out on.

Your post above seems to agree that it's not about the fundamental science behind it but in applying that science ..

Saying team GB has superior SPORT SCIENCE knowledge is a long shot which we simply can not know. I would find it weird out of all the sport scientists in the world only team GB has the most knowledgeable onces.

No, I am not saying that at all. I am saying that it is a) not impossible that some bright person couldn't come up with something new and b) that sports science (or the application of) is only part of it.

I also said that even if everything were equal then why wouldn't you expect someone to be better than the others?

 

[pedaling squares]

You asked us to educate ourselves on the benefits of doping. I'm fully aware that a fully juiced athlete beats a fully clean athlete everytime.

Cleary this is not the case. Once Justin Gatlin realized that PED's were slowing him down, he began to set personal records. Perhaps it wasn't just the drugs that made him slow, it could have been other factors like youth and a steady race schedule. Aging, long periods of inactivity, and a drug-free existence are the reasons that Gatlin can now run at Ben Johnson's best pace - 9.79.

Team GB has it right. You just need to get older like Hoy and Pendleton, race less or with less effort like Kenny, and live as clean as only a Briton can, and you'll be golden my boy!

 

[wannab]

a) not impossible that some bright person couldn't come up with something new b) that sports science (or the application of) is only part of it.

That's really vague "something new", I am talking about real fundamentals that change the sport/training methods.

Of course sport science is only a part of it, and it's a rather well known part. That's why I find it a long shot (sometimes annoyingly) when hearing those claims.

I also said that even if everything were equal then why wouldn't you expect someone to be better than the others?

that wasn't my point, that's rather obvious. I was only pointing out it would be ridiculous only team GB/sky has figured out the science behind it.

 

[Franklin]

And this "new" thing works on:

Sprint
Pursuit
Timetrial
Climbing

Also, it works for everyone on the team. It's so good that it crushes the opposition. Genetics are not strong enough to overcome this advantage or the GB athletes are indeed the most genetically gifted.

Some would find this farfetched. Not only one scientific breakthrough, but several. Not one genetic underkind, but several. Truly, this mysterious training method really must be amazingly all round.

=> Note that someone just told me that its a logical falacy that a doped athlete can only be beaten by another doped athlete. if we disregard history this certainly seems plausible. But how do the genetics work here? Is there no genetic specimen in the world who can overcome the advantage of this new mysterious training method? Not a single cyclist?

 

[mastersracer]

And this "new" thing works on:

Sprint
Pursuit
Timetrial
Climbing

Also, it works for everyone on the team. It's so good that it crushes the opposition. Genetics are not strong enough to overcome this advantage or the GB athletes are indeed the most genetically gifted.

Some would find this farfetched. Not only one scientific breakthrough, but several. Not one genetic underkind, but several. Truly, this mysterious training method really must be amazingly all round.

=> Note that someone just told me that its a logical falacy that a doped athlete can only be beaten by another doped athlete. if we disregard history this certainly seems plausible. But how do the genetics work here? Is there no genetic specimen in the world who can overcome the advantage of this new mysterious training method? Not a single cyclist?

1. guess you ignored my earlier post.
2. guess you missed the woman's sprint final. Keep up - watch some cycling, don't just ruminate over Sky...

 

[Franklin]

1. guess you ignored my earlier post.

Your post which was deleted by the moderators? I did reply and within a second a mod wiped it

Seriously, if you want to continue appendix swinging (yes, I'm fully culpable there) we can do it in PM. The mods obviously don;t like it and we should respect it

2. guess you missed the woman's sprint final. Keep up - watch some cycling, don't just ruminate over Sky...

Pendleton is relegated once and loses one by pushing and this proofs she's not the fastest? The OR is not indicative of anything of course?

As happened before I obviously am missing your point here (could be me again, happened before)... What is the point here again?

 

[mastersracer]

Your post which was deleted by the moderators? I did reply and within a second a mod wiped it

Seriously, if you want to continue appendix swinging (yes, I'm fully culpable there) we can do it in PM. The mods obviously don;t like it and we should respect it



Pendleton is relegated once and loses one by pushing and this proofs she's not the fastest? The OR is not indicative of anything of course?

As happened before I obviously am missing your point here (could be me again, happened before)... What is the point here again?

I was referring to my earlier reply in this thread to you re a previous track domination in which doping did not come out. I pointed out that GB did essentially the same thing in 2008. Add home advantage to 2012 and the performance is essentially the same. That's been 4 years to uncover the massive conspiracy at Sky. 4 years for other countries to catch up. I don't object to your histrionics because I'm a GB fanboy (I'm a Canadian now living in the US) but simply because they are so boring and unoriginal. If I didn't check the date, this thread could be about 2008.

 

[zigmeister]

It must be the special wheels they are using.

Most ridiculous thing the French are saying now.

 

[Dalakhani]

Their's a BIG difference between developing a work method and the science behind it. You, Dalakhan, .. (Sky) say that the science part is where Team GB stands out on.

Actually, I put forward a theory which might explain why there could be a clean track team, but a doping Sky road team.

Saying team GB has superior SPORT SCIENCE knowledge is a long shot which we simply can not know.

True, we can't know either way.

I would find it weird out of all the sport scientists in the world only team GB has the most knowledgeable ones.

Someone has to. It seems to me that there are a number of foreigners that work with team GB's track team.

Why aren't these people not working for their own nations? Not good enough?

Or is the money better with GB?

Or does GB give them more opportunity/freedom to develop their ideas?

I don't know.

 

[Darryl Webster]

It must be the special wheels they are using.

Most ridiculous thing the French are saying now.

Me finks the " magic wheels" comment by the French was tongue in cheek....along the lines.."what do you think GB have that's so special, magic wheels ? " ...obviously NOT

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Me finks the " magic wheels" comment by the French was tongue in cheek....along the lines.."what do you think GB have that's so special, magic wheels ? " ...obviously NOT

Apparently Brailsford said to a French journalist that the British bikes had "specially round wheels", as a joke, obviously. Well not so obviously, as this appears to be the source of the French concern about British technology. Front page story on toady's Evening Standard, no less!

Boardman was saying on the TV commentary earlier today that the British team bikes have been on sale for 2 years, but they've had no enquiries from anyone. Perhaps someone here should make a concerted effort to buy one and see if it's actually possible.

I'm going to miss all this b*llocks when the OGs are over, it must be said. Not as much as seeing GB dish it out to the French, but I'll miss it all the same.

 

[BroDeal]

Boardman was saying on the TV commentary earlier today that the British team bikes have been on sale for 2 years, but they've had no enquiries from anyone. Perhaps someone here should make a concerted effort to buy one and see if it's actually possible.

If the build quality is anything like British autos, no thanks. The bikes might be made deliberately fugly to discourage buyers.

I am sure that a marketing plan which consists in its totality of a single crappy webpage with an email address has nothing to do with a lack of sales or a lack of earnest sales effort. If one did not know better they might think that the Brits did not want to sell any at all.