GC Contenders in 2011

[Zam_Olyas]

It's not about choice. He wouldn't drop Andy at all or win 10-15 sec maximum. In 2009 Schleck wasn't so strong and lost to Contador the first mutual fight.

In 2005 Basso said something like: "The Giro climbs are harder, but the Tour ones are passed twice faster" This thought is deeply ingrained into my mind. There is a gulf between Scarponi and Andy.

Yea, you are abso7ukiinglutely right that Andy is better on whinging

 

[airstream]

OK. I can agree to that.

Let me ask, in your opinion, who would have won the Tour de France, if Contador had not raced the Giro, and showed up with the form he showed at the Giro in France?

He would win le Tour in ITT, not in the climbs.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

He would win le Tour in ITT, not in the climbs.

Contador has always won the Tour on the climbs, not a single time in the TT's. in TT's all he did was consolidate his superiority

 

[Libertine Seguros]

He would win le Tour in ITT, not in the climbs.

I suspect it would have been a repeat of '09 and '10 if Contador had that form. Andy wouldn't have been able to race conservatively in the Pyrenées because if Contador attacked he would have to follow; if Contador had his Giro '11 form then, even if Andy held on to him, you'd have been left with the same situation as we had, with Andy being schooled against the clock at the end.

 

[airstream]

Contador has always won the Tour on the climbs, not a single time in the TT's. in TT's all he did was consolidate his superiority

It has nothing to do with reality. He gained most of time in TT's.

 

[woodenswan]

In 2005 Basso said something like: "The Giro climbs are harder, but the Tour ones are passed twice faster"

well that one clearly decides it then. now that i saw this number, i have no doubts whatsoever. they go twice as fast, exactly twice as fast in the tour, so Evans is twice the rider Contador is. a game-changer really, the clouds blocking my vision lifted for good. thank you for clearing things up

 

[Michielveedeebee]

It has nothing to do with reality. He gained most of time in TT's.

Contador was in yellow before the ITT's, see 07, 09 and 10 as such, he didn't win his 3 Tours in the TT

 

[airstream]

well that one clearly decides it then. now that i saw this number, i have no doubts whatsoever. they go twice as fast, exactly twice as fast in the tour, so Evans is twice the rider Contador is. a game-changer really, the clouds blocking my vision lifted for good. thank you for clearing things up

It was a figurative comparison for sure and relates to not only final climbs. It's about tension in the race generally. Do I really say anything defiantly wrong??

 

[Michielveedeebee]

It was a figurative comparison for sure and relates to not only final climbs. It's about tension in the race generally. Do I really say anything defiantly wrong??

You say Contador doens't win his Tours in the mountains

 

[Parrulo]

tbh this airstream guy screams troll all the way

shows up at the end of the season out of nowhere and then decides to start this kind of discussions everywhere.

you heard it here first: its a multi account from some regular guy

 

[Michielveedeebee]

tbh this airstream guy screams troll all the way

shows up at the end of the season out of nowhere and then decides to start this kind of discussions everywhere.

you heard it here first: its a multi account from some regular guy

Boomcie's revenge ?

 

[Parrulo]

Boomcie's revenge ?

lol this doesn't seems like boomcie's work

 

[Mellow Velo]

In 2005 Basso said something like: "The Giro climbs are harder, but the Tour ones are passed twice faster" This thought is deeply ingrained into my mind. There is a gulf between Scarponi and Andy.

Yes, there were "flying" in those early '00 Tours and we all know the reason why.
Nowadays, it's not about speeds, but output and it's pretty much the same between all the GTs.

Be fair to your man.
There isn't a gulf between him and Scarponi, just 11 places this year. (and 4 last) Source: The Cycling Bible:
10. (12) [ITA] SCARPONI Michele LAM 1437
21. (16) [LUX] SCHLECK Andy LEO 1152

 

[woodenswan]

tbh this airstream guy screams troll all the way

shows up at the end of the season out of nowhere and then decides to start this kind of discussions everywhere.

you heard it here first: its a multi account from some regular guy

you are right of course.
actually it might be you. or me. or is it the hitch?!
hitch u've been flagged. now reveal yourself!

 

[maltiv]

It has nothing to do with reality. He gained most of time in TT's.

You can't just make things up, you know. In 2007 he only lost time in the TT to his two closest challengers, making up a lot of time in the mountains. In 2009 he was incredibly superior in the mountains and the time trial. He would have won the TDF without any of the TTs easily. The only year he gained most of the time in the TTs was 2010.

 

[airstream]

Yes, there were "flying" in those early '00 Tours and we all know the reason why.
Nowadays, it's not about speeds, but output and it's pretty much the same between all the GTs.

Very likely that they flew in the Giro using blood transfusions as well. I don't think, time plays a serious role here. Using doping reduced in all GT's proportionally. I've compared them purely as climbers.

You can't just make things up, you know. In 2007 he only lost time in the TT to his two closest challengers, making up a lot of time in the mountains. In 2009 he was incredibly superior in the mountains and the time trial. He would have won the TDF without any of the TTs easily. The only year he gained most of the time in the TTs was 2010.

Agreed as for 2007. In 2009 he won 20sec (Arcalis)+45 (Verbier). All rest advantage was gained in TT's.


Parrulo and Michielveedeebee, I don't quite understand of what you try to accuse me, dont have to justify my joining the forum to you. I just have a right to have my own opinion

 

[El Pistolero]

Boomcie's revenge ?

Why is Boomcie banned?

 

[Havetts]

Why is Boomcie banned?

Constant harrasing of the person you argue(d) most with.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Parrulo and Michielveedeebee, I don't quite understand of what you try to accuse me, dont have to justify my joining the forum to you. I just have a right to have my own opinion

Where did I accuse you ? I only jokingly said something
Accusing is something I don't do on here... (mostly)

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Constant harrasing of the person you argue(d) most with.

No, that was his 1 day ban, he got banned a month for continuous whining about it

 

[Parrulo]

Parrulo and Michielveedeebee, I don't quite understand of what you try to accuse me, dont have to justify my joining the forum to you. I just have a right to have my own opinion

the thing is: your opinion seems to be different then every1 else's opinion and yet you still believe that you are right while every1 else is wrong.

so either:

a) you are the most confident person on the entire planet and think any opinion different then your own is wrong

or

b) you are a troll

and before you say that there are people that agree with you, there aren't. there are people who agree with parts of your opinion but none agrees with everything

either way if it really is option a) then i wish i could be you as it must feel great to "known" you are right all the time

 

[roundabout]

He feels strongly about his opinion.

So what.

He get's Contador fanboys riled up.

Cue cries of troll, second account.

This forum keeps on sinking.

 

[airstream]

I respect your opinions. But this fact doesn't mean I should be always agree. We often discuss pretty complex hypothetical situations, in which no one is 100% right because all this is a pure assumption, the attempt to imagine how something could (couldn't) have been in different conditions. There's no absolute truth in the matters like these. And please don't act like I should feel any shame because of my position.

Thank you, roundabout.

 

[El Pistolero]

No, that was his 1 day ban, he got banned a month for continuous whining about it

Good, only a month

We need more Belgians constantly

 

[Publicus]

He feels strongly about his opinion.

So what.

He get's Contador fanboys riled up.

Cue cries of troll, second account.

This forum keeps on sinking.

Exactly. Not sure what the big deal is. Once you understand his perspective, it's no different than anyone else's opinion around here.

Cut him some slack.