GC Power Ranking

[Roku]

I usually defend the PCS list for having a method, but I cannot figure out how they have Vingo above Poggi


(vingo has 14 races, pog has 9)

PCS system is as good as a cat randomly picking photos. Every ranking they have is utter garbage, starting with their All Time Ranking in which Pascal Ackermann was considered one of the Top200 best cyclist all time.

 

[P4rthen0n]

My 30 gc riders better than Jorgensen

Vingegard
Roglic
Remco
Ajuso
De Toro
Carapaz
Landa
Almida
Simon Yates
Adam Yates
Enric Mad
Feliz Gall
Florian Lippipotamus
Tobias Halland Johannsen
Kevin Vauquelin
Derrick Gee
Ben o'conner
Sep Kuss
Damiano Caruso
OScar Onley
Michael storrer
Ben Heally
Carlos Rodriguez
Thymen Arensmen
Egan bernal
Lenny Martinez
Jordan jegat
David gaudu
Antonio tiberi
Jay hindley
Daniel Felipe martinez

Bonus: tadej pocagar

That's a lot of names that are clearly bellow Jorgensen in GC power.
People forget he won back to back Paris-Nice and got a top10 in last year's Tour (while being a domestique).

Granted he showed poor form in the 2nd and 3rd weeks in this year's Tour, because of ilness. But in top shape he's a very good pick.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Here's a list riders that have actually won a WT level stage race this year.

Date Race Winner Class
21.01 - 26.01 Santos Tour Down Under NARVÁEZ Jhonatan 2.UWT
17.02 - 23.02 UAE Tour POGAČAR Tadej 2.UWT
09.03 - 16.03 Paris-Nice JORGENSON Matteo 2.UWT
10.03 - 16.03 Tirreno-Adriatico AYUSO Juan 2.UWT
24.03 - 30.03 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya ROGLIČ Primož 2.UWT
07.04 - 12.04 Itzulia Basque Country ALMEIDA João 2.UWT
09.05 - 01.06 Giro d'Italia YATES Simon 2.UWT
29.04 - 04.05 Tour de Romandie ALMEIDA João 2.UWT
08.06 - 15.06 Critérium du Dauphiné POGAČAR Tadej 2.UWT
15.06 - 22.06 Tour de Suisse ALMEIDA João 2.UWT
05.07 - 27.07 Tour de France POGAČAR Tadej 2.UWT

If a rider isn't on the above list that should push them far down the power ranking, at least to 8th place.

Yes, Jhonatan Narvaez should clearly be ahead of Vingegaard.

 

[Peyroteo94]

PCS ranks Pogacar 2024 as the 17th best season of al times IIRC.

 

[Blanco]

And who is the 10th rider?

Carapaz

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Revising mine after reading some of these posts:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. Roglic
4. Almeida
5. Lipowitz
6. Remco
7. Del Toro
8. Carapaz
9. S Yates
10. Ayuso

 

[CyclistAbi]

I would put Rogla a tad higher.

Revising mine after reading some of these posts:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. Roglic
4. Almeida
5. Lipowitz
6. Remco
7. Del Toro
8. Carapaz
9. S Yates
10. Ayuso

We are getting there!

 

[Netserk]

Keep in mind I had Evenepoel over Roglic at the end of last year's Vuelta too, and Roglic' star has fallen further than Evenepoel's in the meantime.

Huh? The single best climbing performance of Evenepoel this year was probably Combloux. Granted, there's a reason for him not performing at his best, but you've got to be even-handed and grant Rogla the same. Peyragudes and Ventoux were stellar performances, and before both the Giro and Tour were affected by injury and illness, he performed on a very solid lvl in Catalunya (arguably it was his best ever one-week race). He was rightly (also in retrospect) the major favourite to win the Giro, and he was dominant in the GT he rode before that, so nothing before the Giro gave any grounds for him being too old.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Huh? The single best climbing performance of Evenepoel this year was probably Combloux. Granted, there's a reason for him not performing at his best, but you've got to be even-handed and grant Rogla the same. Peyragudes and Ventoux were stellar performances, and before both the Giro and Tour were affected by injury and illness, he performed on a very solid lvl in Catalunya (arguably it was his best ever one-week race). He was rightly (also in retrospect) the major favourite to win the Giro, and he was dominant in the GT he rode before that, so nothing before the Giro gave any grounds for him being too old.

It's not a perfect comparison, but the last time Roglic did a GT whilst not 100% recovered from a crash in his previous GT was the 2022 Vuelta and he was clearly better there than at the 2025 Tour.

Catalunya doesn't matter to me because I'm ranking solely for GTs and after all the climbs were taken out of the Pradell stage, the hardest climb of the race would barely have been cat. 1 at the Tour. No proper mountains is a) better for Roglic than proper mountains and, more importantly, b) not representative whatsoever of GTs. And even if you want to go down that route, he was the worst I've seen him since his emergence as a GC rider on similar terrain in Algarve, so I don't think you can use one-week stage races as an argument against decline.

 

[Netserk]

It's not a perfect comparison, but the last time Roglic did a GT whilst not 100% recovered from a crash in his previous GT was the 2022 Vuelta and he was clearly better there than at the 2025 Tour.

Catalunya doesn't matter to me because I'm ranking solely for GTs and after all the climbs were taken out of the Pradell stage, the hardest climb of the race would barely have been cat. 1 at the Tour. No proper mountains is a) better for Roglic than proper mountains and, more importantly, b) not representative whatsoever of GTs. And even if you want to go down that route, he was the worst I've seen him since his emergence as a GC rider on similar terrain in Algarve, so I don't think you can use one-week stage races as an argument against decline.

One-week stage races are informative of the strength of the rider, otherwise Ayuso wouldn't be in a top-20. And the upper-bound of performances is far more telling than the lower bound. Nibali being dogshit in stage races he didn't care about was never as informative as the level of his best performances. And keep in mind that it was the earliest stage race he has done since 2018, usually he starts his season with a serious WT stage race.

So Algarve and Catalunya showed that Rogla still has it and that he was at least as good in the spring this year as any other year. Much better than 2024, and no worse than 2019-2023. That indicates that age didn't materially affect him at that point and that his pre-season prep went well.

I also don't think 2022 and 2025 is a good comparison, but here too I think 2025 was better. Ventoux >> Sierra de La Pandera, and nothing else he did that Vuelta was on a high level. Had he not ridden for Lipowitz, but ridden seriously for as good a GC spot as possible, he'd also not have thrown it away in the Alps but easily finished top-5.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

One-week stage races are informative of the strength of the rider, otherwise Ayuso wouldn't be in a top-20.

This might be the worst take I've seen you post. Ayuso has top-4d the two most recent GTs he completed, was in the group of riders who crested together in 4th through 8th on Galibier in the sole mountain stage he rode while healthy at the 2024 Tour (and everyone else in that group was a consensus pick for at least a top-15 in this ranking at the time), and straight up won the sole mountain stage he rode while healthy at this year's Giro.

Had he not ridden for Lipowitz

Ah yes, Roglic was such an exemplary domestique who totally wasn't preoccupied with backfiring attempts at taking back time and/or winning a stage from a break. By all accounts Lipowitz was very much not of the opinion that Roglic was riding for him in practice, and rightly so.

 

[Potomac]

Seems like people are answering a lot of separate questions in this thread, but to me a power ranking is the expected outcome if everyone lined up in top shape for a race tomorrow.

I like your definition.

 

[P4rthen0n]

Huh? The single best climbing performance of Evenepoel this year was probably Combloux. Granted, there's a reason for him not performing at his best, but you've got to be even-handed and grant Rogla the same. Peyragudes and Ventoux were stellar performances, and before both the Giro and Tour were affected by injury and illness, he performed on a very solid lvl in Catalunya (arguably it was his best ever one-week race). He was rightly (also in retrospect) the major favourite to win the Giro, and he was dominant in the GT he rode before that, so nothing before the Giro gave any grounds for him being too old.

That's true, but Remco is 25 and Roglic is 36.
Roglic's decline is permanent, due to age and he will keep getting worse every single year.
Remco's decline is most likely temporary. He's having and off year due to injuries and, still, he's a beast in the flats in ITT.

 

[Netserk]

That's true, but Remco is 25 and Roglic is 36.
Roglic's decline is permanent, due to age and he will keep getting worse every single year.
Remco's decline is most likely temporary. He's having and off year due to injuries and, still, he's a beast in the flats in ITT.

The same was said a year ago before the Vuelta. Heck, it has been said since 2022. And yet he delivered his strongest performances in the Vuelta last year.

As long as he continues to reach his highest level, it is too soon to already assume a decline.

If anything, an injury such as Remco's could be far more permanent if his shoulder never fully heals.

 

[CyclistAbi]

That's true, but Remco is 25 and Roglic is 36.

Rogla is 35.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Good place for that Almeida vs Remco discussion…

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Revising mine after reading some of these posts:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. Roglic
4. Almeida
5. Lipowitz
6. Remco
7. Del Toro
8. Carapaz
9. S Yates
10. Ayuso

Tough call. Especially hard for Remco and Roglic, who I still think are 3/4 at their best but have not shown it for various reasons.

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. Almeida
4. Roglic (no top results in last 3 GTs but 1/1 GC win)
5. Lipowitz
6. Del Toro
7. Remco (no top results in last 3 GTs, no GC wins)
8. Carapaz
9. S Yates
10. Pidcock
11. Hindley

 

[Red Rick]

For me little changes outside Hindley getting himself back in there and Pidcock being in the discussion, probably in the 3rd tier depending on how you group the lot.

Kuss is back at least as a climber and a top 5 threat in Giro/Vuelta should aliens elect to abduct Vingegaard, but probably really only at the Vuelta.

Jorgenson, even though he's on his 2nd GT, disappointed me a little.

 

[Breh]

Tough call. Especially hard for Remco and Roglic, who I still think are 3/4 at their best but have not shown it for various reasons.

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. Almeida
4. Roglic (no top results in last 3 GTs but 1/1 GC win)
5. Lipowitz
6. Del Toro
7. Remco (no top results in last 3 GTs, no GC wins)
8. Carapaz
9. S Yates
10. Pidcock
11. Hindley

If by last three GT's you mean the three GT's of 2025 then Evenepoel should not be on the list.
If you are talking about the last three GT's he did, he podiumed le Tour and therefor should be higher.

IDK why you would include Pidcock and Hindley while completely ignoring everyone but the podium from le Tour.

 

[AmRacer]

If by last three GT's you mean the three GT's of 2025 then Evenepoel should not be on the list.
If you are talking about the last three GT's he did, he podiumed le Tour and therefor should be higher.

IDK why you would include Pidcock and Hindley while completely ignoring everyone but the podium from le Tour.

Is third at the Tour higher than second at the Giro

 

[Ilmaestro99]

1. Pocagar
2. Vingegard
3. Simon Yates
4. Almida
5. Roglic
6. Carapaz
7. Lipoproteins
8. De Toro
9. Hindley
10 Landa

 

[Rou]

1. Pocagar
2. Vingegard
3. Simon Yates
4. Almida
5. Roglic
6. Carapaz
7. Lipoproteins
8. De Toro
9. Can't think of anyone else

Where does the Belgian chubster rank?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

If by last three GT's you mean the three GT's of 2025 then Evenepoel should not be on the list.
If you are talking about the last three GT's he did, he podiumed le Tour and therefor should be higher.

IDK why you would include Pidcock and Hindley while completely ignoring everyone but the podium from le Tour.

(1) Yes that is what I mean. I think that is the most important but also personally factored in context, what else we’ve seen, and what we’ve seen prior that reasonably could inform predicted performance if they lined up today.
(2) Recency bias, I suppose. But also I have Roglic on there. Fall has no been convincing, to be honest, and was smashed in the Vuelta. I had Almeida above Lipowitz because he had 3xGC wins and was closer to Vingegaard. The only one really missing with a case IMO is Onley, and I’d cluster him with Hindley (who has a 1 and 2 in Giros) and Pidcock (who actually dropped Vingegaard, albeit on a 4-minute effort). I’d put him below though, so in 12th. He’s young and potential to rise, of course.

 

[proffate]

Is third at the Tour higher than second at the Giro

Yes,

Tour win > giro win > Vuelta win > tour podium > giro podium > Vuelta podium

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Yes,

Tour win > giro win > Vuelta win > tour podium > giro podium > Vuelta podium

All things being equal, yes. But I’d argue Froome’s second in the 2014 Vuelta was better than second in the 2014 Tour, for example.