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Giro 2017, stage 9: Montenero di Bisaccia - Blockhaus 149 km

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Disappointing ride by Steven K.

Stil recovering from crashes at Yorkshire and begining of the Giro ...but is imo no way out of this yet ....lots of time to be made back if he recovers and as he has done in previous Giros

Lots of fatalist rubbish being said on here by the usual doom and gloom merchants

Firstly Quintana is the best climber but he is not invincible... and there are many ways to attack the man rather than just the mountans.... In fact didnt think he was great for him...30 seconds ahead of Tom D

Dumoulin rode magnificantly and will take pink on Tuesday and could win ...but has no help in the mountain which is a pity

Pinot is the second best climber in the race but needs to race with his head and not do useless attacks..

Mollema is a dark horse and could podium

I still do not count Nibali out but unfortunatley his team is not the strongest ...but we have seen time and time again this man come back, esp when he looks finished

Riders like Yates and Thomas will be looking for time back and wont wait for the mountains ..and other may benefit......it is not the end...its not even the begining of the end ...its the end of the begining
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
DFA123 said:
bambino said:
Red Rick said:
Seriously, what's Dumoulin gonna do when Movustar has 3 guys in the break on the way to Bormio and Quintana drops him on the Stelvio?

2-3 minutes to take back in mtf's is still a big ask for anyone for the biggest contenders during GC's nowadays. Especially when the toughest mtf of the whole race is now done. But I agree, Quintana will probably find those minutes against Dumoulin one way or another.

Nibali though... I wouldn't be surprised (seeing these first 9 stages) if he is quite good in TT's. And the race has just got much simpler after the voodoo today. I still think he is the one Nairo should be at least remotely afraid of.
Dumoulin lost six minutes to Aru in the Vuelta, on the only multi-mountain stage after he became a really serious GC threat. He's already marked as a serious threat here and Movistar have about four opportunities in that last week to do what Astana.

Perhaps the biggest problem for Dumoulin, as Red Rick says, is that his team is hopeless. And that his style of climbing - trying to pace himself and limit losses - means he will get dropped and will be isolated. Movistar can take their pick of stages when they want to crush him in that final week.

The worst thing that can happen is that he gets caught out between climbs without team mates around. He will have to hope that he can work with Mollema, Pinot and others.
Yeah, it is the worst thing, but it's also very likely to happen I think if Quintana is in a position where he needs time in the final week. It's not at all hard for Movistar to send riders up the road in the break and then Quintana to get a gap on pretty much any climb he wants to.

And even if Mollema, Dumoulin and Pinot for example, somehow worked well together on a flat, they still would all waste energy while Quintana drafts behind teammates before the final climb.

I think it's Nibali or nothing at this stage as far as a GC rival to Quintana goes. The one place where he may be slightly vulnerable is on descents and against a rider willing to risk a podium or top 5 position for the win.
 
Re:

yaco said:
I learnt four things today

- A.Yates needs to ride closer to the front of the peleton as there's always a chance of it biting your bumb
- Dumoulin is in prime position to podium if not win the Giro
- Pinot is going as well as I expected
- Moviestar showed how you ride a decisive mountain stage by drilling it 60 or 70kms from the finish.

In response to your points:

1. This was already a "red flag" item to be addressed at last year's TDF but it appears both he and his team management have remained complacent ..... and it most certainly bit him square on the arse today. I hate seeing people inconvenienced by accidents but he got caught up in this one due to riding poor position.

2. The upcoming TT will tell us much as regards to what extent (if any) Dumoulin's GC focus has impacted his TTing. If only marginally (or negligible), then your scenario may very well play out

3. He most definitely looks a key factor; if his TT stands up.

4. Agree Movistar "bossed it" and Quintana was able to seal the deal. No criticism from me for them NOT sitting up after the crash; they'd been drilling it for a long time and it did not take out the bulk of the contenders or even the field
 
Re: Re:

Cookster15 said:
Red Rick said:
Seriously, what's Dumoulin gonna do when Movustar has 3 guys in the break on the way to Bormio and Quintana drops him on the Stelvio?
Dumoulin only has to worry about one wheel - Quintana's. Movistar can do what they like it will be man against man. I just hope TD's TT is still up to scratch then it's game on.
In theory thats true, but not in this case. The difference between usual gc battles and this one is that nobody really expects Dumoulin to follow Quintana on climbs like Stelvio, but to limit his losses on mountain stages. However as soon as Quintana drops Dumoulin and there are Movistar riders in front waiting for Quintana the teams suddenly become crucial.
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
One thing.

I do wonder how much time Quintan, Nibali and Pinot wasted with the tempo changes in the middle part of the climb. Might give a somewhat distorted view of climbing strenghts
When Quintana did the winning move, the group containing Dumoulin, Mollema and Pozzovivo was 13s behind (according to the GPS, they weren't far anyway).
 
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Re: Re:

Cookster15 said:
Red Rick said:
Seriously, what's Dumoulin gonna do when Movustar has 3 guys in the break on the way to Bormio and Quintana drops him on the Stelvio?
Dumoulin only has to worry about one wheel - Quintana's. Movistar can do what they like it will be man against man. I just hope TD's TT is still up to scratch then it's game on.

Yeah, just like he had to worry about one wheel at Vuelta - Aru's. He lost that wheel by some 10-15sec and he would likely come back, but some other wheels got involved and he lost minutes.
 
So how realistic was the GPS on Thomas really? I mean, we knew he'd been in the accident and had dropped time, but for a while it looked like he was climbing fastest of all the groups being timed, as Quintana, Pinot and Nibali were not gaining any time on him, which would make sense only if he was as strong as them but, because of being involved in the crash, was riding his own pace rather than responding to attacks and messing about with slowing down and speeding up as Quintana and Pinot (less so Nibali who seemed to be going more for rhythm); at one point however, the time gap seemingly froze at 2'09 while Jungels was dropping further and further away, yet obviously this is doubtful since he finished over a minute and a half back on Jungels. I don't think it likely he lost all 3 minutes in such a short period on the flattest part of the climb after catching people, so realistically I don't think we have any guide yet as to whether Thomas really is at the right level.

Sky's problems with the Giro continue, it's the one race they've really not been able to pin down to date, whether it be through poor form, poor luck, poor decisions or a combination of the above. It will now be interesting to see what happens with Thomas forced to race from behind. Will he feel motivated by the sense of injustice and come out all guns blazing, or will he timidly wilt like happened to Porte a couple of years ago? Having been bruised and battered in the accident, Thomas will have a ready 'out' if his form is questionable and he's unable to impact the race, of course. Sky's controlling, bruising race strategy has always been about racing from the front, and that would seem the most logical way of going about things given Thomas' characteristics as a GC rider compared to much of his opposition here. However, that's no longer an option. Sucks that the reason for that is something that's out of his control like this, but at the same time, we might get to see Sky have to dig into other teams' bags of tricks to try to find a way to claw time back, which could be better for the spectacle than if the teams were still trying to protect what they have like they spent most of week 1 doing.

As for the other contenders who were found out today, Tejay is the obvious one. I'm afraid I've never really rated him for a race like this. Almost his only wins outside the US are in Catalunya with races which similarly offers lowish-gradient tempo climbing, and the puncheur skills he showed in his early career with HTC have been neglected almost to the point of extinction. Therefore given recent parcours trends the GT most suited to him is the Tour, and the chances of a Tour de France where Tejay van Garderen is the strongest rider taking place in the next couple of years are pretty slim.
 
What a spectacle!

Daniel Friebe, who by the way is a treat listening to in general, described Blockhaus (probably only referring to the side from Roccamorice) as the Mortirolo of the Apennines. There's definitely some truth to that, especially when you cut the remaining of the climb which I'm by the way totally fine with. I think it, in most scenarios, will lead to better racing. While Mortirolo obviously is the harder climb, this climb is a downright monster. Loved it. And the riders, well, Movistar, took the bull by its horn and delivered. Movistar should to this more often.

Up there with the great MTFs recently, Ill only rate Saint Martin 2015 higher due to the insane anticipation and the great spectacle which was very equal to today's.
 
Re: Giro 2017, stage 9: Montenero di Bisaccia - Blockhaus 14

Oliwright said:
Classic Movistar always seem to do best in GT's when others have issues.
IE: 2014 Giro stage with the neutralized descent.

They didn't have to wait but they could have chosen to.

Please stop this. Movistar was pulling hard for 60km and then people expect them to stop when there is a big crash?
Im really gutted about this crash and the riders that crashed out or lost their gc ambitiins because of this crash. Worst of all it was created by a freaking moto....

Movistar didn't cause this crash and they cant help it. There is nothing you can blame them on. Nothing.
 
Dumoilin had a team... kelderman was doing great, but he is out now. Ten Dam was a good 2nd for breakaway work in the mountain stages, but Tom lost his prime domestique today.

Also the reason why Dumoulun was most of all.dissapointed after the stage. Losing Kelderman is a huge blow to his gc ambitions and he knows it. Kelderman was a rider who could be the missing factor in his vuelta2015.
 
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Re: Giro 2017, stage 9: Montenero di Bisaccia - Blockhaus 14

As fast as ALL the riders are now. With the training advances, bikes, wheels, nutrition, specialization. It is mind boggling to me how much focus you must maintain. When on the limit seemingly everyday. 1 small slip and you have what we saw today. We can debate who was at fault. But to late for that now. IMHO.

So Movistar or any other team for that matter. Are supposed to slow the pace for SKY???? The most controversial team in the world tour for 3 seasons now? C'mon?

Looks like Landa, G, Rosa. Will be fresh for the Tour.
 
Re: Giro 2017, stage 9: Montenero di Bisaccia - Blockhaus 14

Absolutely hilarious interview with Matt White, what a joker. :lol:

Thats what you get when your GC-rider is riding at the back of the peloton. Miracle he wasn't caught out last year in TdF. And besides, they simply just continued riding according to plan. Your guy crashing doesnt change that, what a fool...
 
Re: Giro 2017, stage 9: Montenero di Bisaccia - Blockhaus 14

I often criticise today's riders but you ve gotta gie credit where credit is due.
Fantastic racing on the last climb. No tactics, no silly attack and wait style. Just flat out racing. Fantastic.

Dumolin must be in superb shape. Podium seems very possibe.
 
- Dumoulin to gain 1.30 on Quintana in the (not-so-flat) TT.
- Quintana has already proven he can take more than a minute on Froome on 1 climb in 3rd week of the Tour. So why doubt about him taking another 1-2 minutes in 3rd week of Giro?
- Motorbike absolutely bad positioning to stand still.
- G Thomas GPS was in comparison to Jungels.
- Kelderman out is as bad for Dumoulin as in Vuelta 15 and as Kruiswijk without team mates last year.
- Dumoulin doesn't have to follow just one wheel of Quintana: he should follow NO wheels like in Vuelta or like today.
- Nibali racing a bit silly and not controlled enough today. I still expect him to improve. He is a diesel and will shine in the last week.
- Pinot to be the joker.
 
Re: Giro 2017, stage 9: Montenero di Bisaccia - Blockhaus 14

Valv.Piti said:
Absolutely hilarious interview with Matt White, what a joker. :lol:

Thats what you get when your GC-rider is riding at the back of the peloton. Miracle he wasn't caught out last year in TdF. And besides, they simply just continued riding according to plan. Your guy crashing doesnt change that, what a fool...

Yep, his comments about neutralisation were pretty damned laughable. IF it had been the case that the crash had taken down 3/4 of the field and the bulk of the contenders then, yes, I could see the case but the only contenders held up/on the tarmac were Yates & the Sky pair. Them's the breaks, ORS & Sky have, themselves, taken advantage of crashes in GTs.

Fully concur re Yates; whilst you don't like to see any rider hit the tarmac, he's received a brutally sharp lesson in basic race-craft. One hopes it damned well registers very clearly in his brain because if he continues to ride poor position, he will at best expend unnecessary energy trying to hold onto a group OR he'll end up involved/held up by more crashes like today's.
 
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It's annoying that Movi kept ramming the pace but they didn't really do anything wrong. I guess Whitey was just emotional after losing the Giro basically, which is understandable. Dave B with the more sensible interview. :lol: