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Giro d'Italia 2017 STAGE 20: Pordenone – Asiago 190 km

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Aug 12, 2009
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Orbit501 said:
It would actually be quite funny if Tom D's trash talk came true and Nibs and Quintana both got shoved off the podium.

It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility to see Pinot and Zakarin claim the podium spots.

Nibali finished ahead of both Pinot and Zakarin in the first time trial.

He's not losing a podium spot tomorrow.

It's just what spot he gets.

Same with Quintana and Dumoulin.

Pinot has an outside chance of pulling something out of the back...but I don't think he will. His limit against the clock versus Nibali at the end of GT's has been...well, slower than Nibali.

Interestingly in the stage 20 time trial at the 2014 Tour, where Nibali was head and shoulders above everyone, he finished in FOURTH place, about 2 mins behind Tony Martin. Dumoulin was only 19 seconds ahead of him at that point in time and not racing for GC.

It might actually be true, that Movistar cannot split their squad anymore. Perhaps it might be better to send Valverde everywhere Quintana goes in GC races. But then again, he does need to race without him.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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staubsauger said:
Mollema certainly has been a better super-domestique in the last 2 days than Levi Leipheimer has been in his whole career.

And LL wasn't THAT bad actually!-

When Mollema rides to a 3rd and 2nd in a GT, behind his own team mate, then he might have a point.

Actually, he'd be riding for exactly the same rider.

Bottle was a good rider who rode for his leader. Same as Kloden. Great individual rider, who showed zero impetus as a team leader. Great for working for Lance and Contador though. Both of them.

Bauke is waving the Dutch flag...plus Dumoulin did most of the work today chasing along with Jungels. But hey, it happens in cycling. Gotta have friends to help.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
Dumoulin was 23 in 2014. What's this with the historic comparisons when it's not the same rider.

2015 Vuelta Tom would've lost 2 minutes today and 4 minutes yesterday It's not the same

To prove that Dutch riders crack?

Isn't that always the point?

Jokes aside, and that was a joke. Sometimes a racer needs to lose a big race to improve...citing Evans as an example.

Quintana and Nibali both have not fired in GT's and come back firing. They'll be fine after tomorrow regardless of what occurs.

However there are people here claiming that Zakarin might make the podium. Not based on his form this race. His time trial was slower than Nibali on stage 10. He is too far back.

Pinot also, was vastly slower than Nibali and only a margin faster than Quintana on stage 10.

Check the Pinot thread. His fans were claiming during the last 2 years, his time trialing quality had improved. I agree, at one race, a stage race, he did very well.

But this race and at the end of grand tours he has historically been...slower than Nibali. Both are kind of similar today and the last 3 stages. So I expect them to stay in the formation they are on GC...Nibali ahead of Pinot.

It should, in theory, baring somebody doing a Rasmussen and imploding, be a close but kind of obvious race tomorrow. Dumoulin in first, then Quintana and Nibali very close to each other over second.

How close? We'll find out. If Dumoulin has any problems this will be very, very close.

Has he had problems? Actually, in races, yes he has.

Hence the Dutch joke at the top...it just seems to happen to Dutch riders something odd occurs. Hopefully the toilet issue was the limit for him this year.
 
Dazed and Confused said:
Gigs_98 said:
I think this last week is a perfect example for how a bad route can influence the racing. This is the third stage in a row where riders were all over the road extremely early on but at the end nothing happens before the final climb. We just had a climb where the peloton was reduced to 8 riders 8 (!!!) kilometers from the top of the climb but it was not possible to use that situation for an attack. If they had used the southern side of the Grappa the race would probably look completely differently right now.

Rubbish. We have one of the weakest GC fields in memory. Riders with very little panache or will. Placement boys all over the place.

This GC will probably be the strongest of all the GT's - It's the TDF that lacks depth in 2017.
 
Re: Re:

staubsauger said:
Jolene said:
Carols said:
meat puppet said:
Pinot easily the most handsome gc boyo in our era. No contest at all.

I think the ladies should decide these things :).

Contador = Most Handsome
Nibali = Sexiest
Pinot = Kind of cute
Chavez = cutie pie
BM Tom = attractive except for that chin!
Narito = no appeal
Bala = 2nd sexiest
Froome = not at all attractive

Any GC types I'm, missing?

EDIT: Landa = Very Attractive!

Back to racing.......

Contador=Spanish Fred Astaire (but those eyes!!)
Nibali=too high strung
Chaves= too young looking
Quintana=like dating your granddad
Froome= god no
Bala=used car salesman
Tom=the long lost lovechild of Gregory Peck and Montgomery Clift
Landa=mommy's boy (but again...those eyes!!)
Pinot=those white bibs!! :eek:
Jungels=very pretty
Romain Bardet looks like the sugarsweet frontman of an indierock group or a shy boygroup star. There ain't no contest in sexappeal at all, really!

Not to mention that Bardet needs to fix his teeth.
 
Gigs_98 said:
KGB said:
Gigs_98 said:
I think this last week is a perfect example for how a bad route can influence the racing. This is the third stage in a row where riders were all over the road extremely early on but at the end nothing happens before the final climb. We just had a climb where the peloton was reduced to 8 riders 8 (!!!) kilometers from the top of the climb but it was not possible to use that situation for an attack. If they had used the southern side of the Grappa the race would probably look completely differently right now.
I think this more about how good riders are and how they race each stage.What exciting you could expect from Quintana?Nibali is just not who was a few yrs ago etc.
But if riders wouldn't want to attack from far away how is it possible that the race was blown apart so far from the finish for the third time in a row. The problem is that on stage 18 and yesterday as soon as Dumoulin had caught the front group there was no terrain go get away again and today an attack before the last 8 km of that climb would have been complete suicide.

Do you expect 100 to 120kms of pure climbing in a mountain stage.
 
Re: Re:

lenric said:
staubsauger said:
Jolene said:
Carols said:
meat puppet said:
Pinot easily the most handsome gc boyo in our era. No contest at all.

I think the ladies should decide these things :).

Contador = Most Handsome
Nibali = Sexiest
Pinot = Kind of cute
Chavez = cutie pie
BM Tom = attractive except for that chin!
Narito = no appeal
Bala = 2nd sexiest
Froome = not at all attractive

Any GC types I'm, missing?

EDIT: Landa = Very Attractive!

Back to racing.......

Contador=Spanish Fred Astaire (but those eyes!!)
Nibali=too high strung
Chaves= too young looking
Quintana=like dating your granddad
Froome= god no
Bala=used car salesman
Tom=the long lost lovechild of Gregory Peck and Montgomery Clift
Landa=mommy's boy (but again...those eyes!!)
Pinot=those white bibs!! :eek:
Jungels=very pretty
Romain Bardet looks like the sugarsweet frontman of an indierock group or a shy boygroup star. There ain't no contest in sexappeal at all, really!

Not to mention that Bardet needs to fix his teeth.
Yeah, he always laughs so shyly because of his retainer. The girls love it! :D
 
Re:

masking_agent said:
Quintana tomorrow is going to have the same fate as Fignon and Schleck did on the last day of a Grand Tour.. Tom will take the jersey off him on the last day. Oh well.. Maybe Nairo can speak to his doctor about a better program when back training in colombia.

Is it harder to turn a good TT'er into a good climber or a good climber into a good TT'er, if you know what I mean ?
 
Re: Re:

bigcog said:
masking_agent said:
Quintana tomorrow is going to have the same fate as Fignon and Schleck did on the last day of a Grand Tour.. Tom will take the jersey off him on the last day. Oh well.. Maybe Nairo can speak to his doctor about a better program when back training in colombia.

Is it harder to turn a good TT'er into a good climber or a good climber into a good TT'er, if you know what I mean ?

What about turning a sprinter into a climber?
 
yaco said:
Gigs_98 said:
KGB said:
Gigs_98 said:
I think this last week is a perfect example for how a bad route can influence the racing. This is the third stage in a row where riders were all over the road extremely early on but at the end nothing happens before the final climb. We just had a climb where the peloton was reduced to 8 riders 8 (!!!) kilometers from the top of the climb but it was not possible to use that situation for an attack. If they had used the southern side of the Grappa the race would probably look completely differently right now.
I think this more about how good riders are and how they race each stage.What exciting you could expect from Quintana?Nibali is just not who was a few yrs ago etc.
But if riders wouldn't want to attack from far away how is it possible that the race was blown apart so far from the finish for the third time in a row. The problem is that on stage 18 and yesterday as soon as Dumoulin had caught the front group there was no terrain go get away again and today an attack before the last 8 km of that climb would have been complete suicide.

Do you expect 100 to 120kms of pure climbing in a mountain stage.
This has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote. Stage 18 even was a stage which was up and down for the whole day but the last serious pass was over 50 kilometers from the finish. Riders even tried to make long range attacks there but after that didn't work there just wasn't terrain to attack again before the final climb, so everything came back together. The exact same happened on stage 19 and 20, just that there the penultimate climb was even further away from the finish.
The problem I have with this route is that there were riders willing to attack far away from the finish but not one of these attack worked. This was a good giro but not a superb one, and I think it could have been a superb one if the last three mountain stages had a slightly better design.
 
Re: Re:

Carols said:
meat puppet said:
Pinot easily the most handsome gc boyo in our era. No contest at all.

I think the ladies should decide these things :).

Contador = Most Handsome
Nibali = Sexiest
Pinot = Kind of cute
Chavez = cutie pie
BM Tom = attractive except for that chin!
Narito = no appeal
Bala = 2nd sexiest
Froome = not at all attractive

Any GC types I'm, missing?

EDIT: Landa = Very Attractive!

Back to racing.......
excellent, could just imagine the outcry if men were to start rating the women cyclist on their looks, think you're in the wrong century
 
Re:

HelloDolly said:
Quintana may not have the legs but he is afraid to try ...you can see that ...he follows others attacks or he goes and stops ...he is afraid of something

He needs to attack and then go beyond himself

maybe its becasue he is a natural climber that he has not had to fight so deep in himself

I remember hearing about landa not understanding when his legs hurt on climbs as he was not used to it

Quintana is not used of going beyond himself imo

This is the difference between them and Froome, he turns himself inside out sometimes in terms of pain and effort, which is why I like him. I remember watching the Pena Carbarga stage in 2011 and it took him about 10 minutes to recover sitting down pouring water over himself, he was that wasted he couldn't speak.
 
Amazed at the some of the comments above how anyone can be critical of any of the contenders after this last week. It's abundantly clear that they've all given it absolutely everything and their legs are just completely empty. Nibali and Quintana have tried to attack nearly every mountain stage, uphill or downhill, despite knowing they haven't got the legs to really sustain them. Pinot hasn't just settled for a decent position but has also gone all out to try to put himself in overall contention and got a well deserved stage win. Zakarin as well looking always looking for a few more seconds even though he's on the limit. And Dumoulin has shown amazing mental courage and quality to limit his losses when he's seen riders disappear up the road on many stages.

It's just unbelievable if you don't have the utmost respect for all the riders involved after this last week. And a great spectacle they've put on as well - exciting racing from the gun for 5 stages in a row. It all nearly makes up for the borefest of the first two weeks. :)
 
Re: Re:

rick james said:
Carols said:
meat puppet said:
Pinot easily the most handsome gc boyo in our era. No contest at all.

I think the ladies should decide these things :).

Contador = Most Handsome
Nibali = Sexiest
Pinot = Kind of cute
Chavez = cutie pie
BM Tom = attractive except for that chin!
Narito = no appeal
Bala = 2nd sexiest
Froome = not at all attractive

Any GC types I'm, missing?

EDIT: Landa = Very Attractive!

Back to racing.......
excellent, could just imagine the outcry if men were to start rating the women cyclist on their looks, think you're in the wrong century
Nah, as long as you pretend to be Italian sexism doesn't even exist! :lol: :twisted:
 
Gigs_98 said:
yaco said:
Gigs_98 said:
KGB said:
Gigs_98 said:
I think this last week is a perfect example for how a bad route can influence the racing. This is the third stage in a row where riders were all over the road extremely early on but at the end nothing happens before the final climb. We just had a climb where the peloton was reduced to 8 riders 8 (!!!) kilometers from the top of the climb but it was not possible to use that situation for an attack. If they had used the southern side of the Grappa the race would probably look completely differently right now.
I think this more about how good riders are and how they race each stage.What exciting you could expect from Quintana?Nibali is just not who was a few yrs ago etc.
But if riders wouldn't want to attack from far away how is it possible that the race was blown apart so far from the finish for the third time in a row. The problem is that on stage 18 and yesterday as soon as Dumoulin had caught the front group there was no terrain go get away again and today an attack before the last 8 km of that climb would have been complete suicide.

Do you expect 100 to 120kms of pure climbing in a mountain stage.
This has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote. Stage 18 even was a stage which was up and down for the whole day but the last serious pass was over 50 kilometers from the finish. Riders even tried to make long range attacks there but after that didn't work there just wasn't terrain to attack again before the final climb, so everything came back together. The exact same happened on stage 19 and 20, just that there the penultimate climb was even further away from the finish.
The problem I have with this route is that there were riders willing to attack far away from the finish but not one of these attack worked. This was a good giro but not a superb one, and I think it could have been a superb one if the last three mountain stages had a slightly better design.

When was the last time you saw a GC rider attack 50+kms from the finish and win the stage ? Stage 18 finished on the Umbria Pass - Stage 17 ended up being a transitional stage between the tough stages of 16 and 18 - Stage 19 and 20 had full gas racing from early in the stage - The fact is there is little separating the top 5 or 6 in the GC - I'd suggest the course design along with rider attitudes has enhanced the race - I also suggest you want find a stage in the TDF where you will find 8 riders left in the peleton with 60 kms to go in the stage.
 
Feb 3, 2015
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Quintana has not seemed to give it all. Had he pushed harder he could have gained at least 10 seconds more on Tom. His relays were clearly half-assed. Most of them in fact lasted a second maybe two. No doubt that Pinot and Nibali contributed more.

1 km to go, Nibali talked to Pinot to stop pulling. Nairo didn't like it at all, he lost another couple of seconds waving his hands.

And don't tell me he was empty and just about to bonk. After Nibali's attack he closed him down and didn't give a wheel. Was he spent? Well, after three minutes or so he attacked himself harder than Nibali so go figure.