Giro d'Italia 2017 STAGE 20: Pordenone – Asiago 190 km

[alspacka]

Re:

No one else seemed to care about the motorbikes today? I thought it was pretty bad in front of the Quintana/Nibali group.

Just you wait for tomorrow. Vincenzo gonna have a full on motorcade.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Re: Re:

Quintana tomorrow is going to have the same fate as Fignon and Schleck did on the last day of a Grand Tour.. Tom will take the jersey off him on the last day. Oh well.. Maybe Nairo can speak to his doctor about a better program when back training in colombia.

You forgot Purito.

Quintana has actually won a few GT's though.

Purito losing the Giro to Hesjedal...that really hurt. Probably not as much as the Vuelta lose that Contador stole, or the World Championship...you get the picture?

There are a lot of riders who've raced really hard and come very close to the first place. They still rode well.

Oh...and did I hear "mechanical?"

There is a bit of a Purito vibe here, but the difference there was that Purito lost the Giro because he didn't take Hesjedal seriously until it was too late. Even then, he could've taken more time on the last mountain stage but only attacked right at the end. Quintana just didn't have the legs here.

 

[the_cutter]

I still wish somebody out of the little pack went for a suicide attack on Monte Grappa. But with no domestiques upfront it would have been that - suicide, but would've been so entertaining to watch!

 

[Galic Ho]

Re: Re:

I think its between Nibali and Dumoulin. Nibali will probably get a bit of assistance along the way, and it's a fast, fairly technical course in places. He could do very, very well I think.

If Nibali and Quintana times very reversed, and Nibali had 53 seconds on Dumoulin...

Yes, I'd agree with you. It's how much time right now? 15 seconds?

Tom is getting that time on Nibali unless he's absolutely emptied the tank every one of the last 3 stages.

Yes he pushed hard. Really hard. But he is better than the rest on the flat.

Quintana has to limit his time loss to just less than 2 seconds per km and we'll have a very close race.

FATIGUE is the key here. Everyone is exhausted. The first time trial gaps are an indicator, that barring Quintana absolutely blowing out, which he never has in an ITT, unlike Purito who once lost 7 minutes whilst riding GC, he will finish in either first or second overall.

I don't believe Quintana will lose a podium spot, or finish lower than second. Nibali might get close to him...very close.

But should Nibali get close, barring a race incident or mechanical, Dumoulin should like wise, be expected to be as close, if not further ahead on the clock.

Either way, the race is still on!

By assistance, you don't mean he gets a tow?

Surely that won't happen! He's not that ballsy.

 

[bob.a.feet]

Re: Re:

Quintana tomorrow is going to have the same fate as Fignon and Schleck did on the last day of a Grand Tour.. Tom will take the jersey off him on the last day. Oh well.. Maybe Nairo can speak to his doctor about a better program when back training in colombia.

You forgot Purito.

Quintana has actually won a few GT's though.

Purito losing the Giro to Hesjedal...that really hurt. Probably not as much as the Vuelta lose that Contador stole, or the World Championship...you get the picture?

There are a lot of riders who've raced really hard and come very close to the first place. They still rode well.

Oh...and did I hear "mechanical?"

So did Fignon

 

[gunara]

"Giro-Tour double attempt" and "not 100%" are not used often enough in this forum when judging Quintana's form, when it's the main theme when talking about Contador in 2015, or even 2011.
Okay, Contador eventually won and way a bigger warrior, big differences, but still, Quintana's loss is not all about cowardice and stupidity as some imply.

 

[HelloDolly]

Quintana may not have the legs but he is afraid to try ...you can see that ...he follows others attacks or he goes and stops ...he is afraid of something

He needs to attack and then go beyond himself

maybe its becasue he is a natural climber that he has not had to fight so deep in himself

I remember hearing about landa not understanding when his legs hurt on climbs as he was not used to it

Quintana is not used of going beyond himself imo

 

[Galic Ho]

Re: Re:

Quintana tomorrow is going to have the same fate as Fignon and Schleck did on the last day of a Grand Tour.. Tom will take the jersey off him on the last day. Oh well.. Maybe Nairo can speak to his doctor about a better program when back training in colombia.

You forgot Purito.

Quintana has actually won a few GT's though.

Purito losing the Giro to Hesjedal...that really hurt. Probably not as much as the Vuelta lose that Contador stole, or the World Championship...you get the picture?

There are a lot of riders who've raced really hard and come very close to the first place. They still rode well.

Oh...and did I hear "mechanical?"

So did Fignon

So did Andy Schleck.

My point was he won't crawl into a hole and collapse should he finish second.

He tanked last Tour and then won the Vuelta.

Am I the only person who is thinking Movistar could have sent Valverde here and stream rolled this one?

Wait...I actually hope he wins the Tour. But enough with me and what I want to see. Wait...I always seem to get it.

 

[mavmav]

Re: Re:

I think its between Nibali and Dumoulin. Nibali will probably get a bit of assistance along the way, and it's a fast, fairly technical course in places. He could do very, very well I think.

If Nibali and Quintana times very reversed, and Nibali had 53 seconds on Dumoulin...

Yes, I'd agree with you. It's how much time right now? 15 seconds?

Tom is getting that time on Nibali unless he's absolutely emptied the tank every one of the last 3 stages.

Yes he pushed hard. Really hard. But he is better than the rest on the flat.

Quintana has to limit his time loss to just less than 2 seconds per km and we'll have a very close race.

FATIGUE is the key here. Everyone is exhausted. The first time trial gaps are an indicator, that barring Quintana absolutely blowing out, which he never has in an ITT, unlike Purito who once lost 7 minutes whilst riding GC, he will finish in either first or second overall.

I don't believe Quintana will lose a podium spot, or finish lower than second. Nibali might get close to him...very close.

But should Nibali get close, barring a race incident or mechanical, Dumoulin should like wise, be expected to be as close, if not further ahead on the clock.

Either way, the race is still on!

By assistance, you don't mean he gets a tow?

Surely that won't happen! He's not that ballsy.

Not really.

It's power. On a flat ITT it's just pushing Watts.

 

[luckyboy]

Quintana may not have the legs but he is afraid to try ...you can see that ...he follows others attacks or he goes and stops ...he is afraid of something

He needs to attack and then go beyond himself

maybe its becasue he is a natural climber that he has not had to fight so deep in himself

I remember hearing about landa not understanding when his legs hurt on climbs as he was not used to it

Quintana is not used of going beyond himself imo

How can you try if you don't have the legs?

It's foolish to go deeper than is possible and blow yourself up because of it

 

[Orbit501]

Re:

I get the impression delaParte and Movistar hired Jan Hirt for the end of this stage. He took a strong pull at the bottom of the climb with everyone on his wheel and then didn't assist in the Dumo group in chance of a stage win.

Have you not been watching this race?

Hirt is a pure climber and rubbish on the flat and sprints. He could have worked his arse off to bring 11 riders back together and he'd still come 11th. Sitting on he still came 11th, which tells you all you need to know.

Don't knock Hirt, he's had a brilliant debut GT.

 

[Andro]

Quintana did attack plenty of times in this Giro. On Blockhaus he won solo, on Oropa he was solo for a long time before being wheeled in. The rest of the time he just wasn't able to get a gap. That's how it is.

Overall he probably attacked more than Dumoulin, Zakarin and Pozzo combined.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re:

Quintana may not have the legs but he is afraid to try ...you can see that ...he follows others attacks or he goes and stops ...he is afraid of something

He needs to attack and then go beyond himself

maybe its becasue he is a natural climber that he has not had to fight so deep in himself

I remember hearing about landa not understanding when his legs hurt on climbs as he was not used to it

Quintana is not used of going beyond himself imo

How can you try if you don't have the legs?

It's foolish to go deeper than is possible and blow yourself up because of it

I said 'may' as I dont think its the problem

And also we see time and time again riders pulling over spent and then coming back...e.g. Poels in the tour, etc

My point is Quintana has not gone to that place and he needs to

 

[HelloDolly]

Look at the footage...see Quintana following attacks more than making them...
If he didn't have the legs he wouldn't be able to follow Nibali or Pinot, etc

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Quintana may not have the legs but he is afraid to try ...you can see that ...he follows others attacks or he goes and stops ...he is afraid of something

He needs to attack and then go beyond himself

maybe its becasue he is a natural climber that he has not had to fight so deep in himself

I remember hearing about landa not understanding when his legs hurt on climbs as he was not used to it

Quintana is not used of going beyond himself imo

Dumoulin gifted him three minutes with belly problems and day dreaming. If Quintana doesn't win he only has himself to blame.

 

[Galic Ho]

Re:

The ITT is not technical at all. And not downhill either, it's panflat and on wide roads for the most part.

That's what I thought.

Excuse me forgetting people get moto assistance. Perhaps the tifosi, or whoever in Italy loves Nibali will favour him. Don't think that matters though against Dumoulin. Tom should overtake him.

Both should get close to Quintana. In theory, Dumoulin goes ahead and Quintana holds off Nibali barely. Pinot could flog this one like he did in 2014...I will go check those times and see if he can catch Nibali. He may...gosh that would really suck. But he probably won't.

Contador did beat Cancellara in a time trial back in the 2009 Tour!

That was hilarious hearing Cancellara complain about the motorbikes!

However, there was a climb that day. Cancellara burned big chunks of Contador's advantage off on the flat.

 

[huge]

I don't see how Dumoulin could lose it now.

Quintana doesn't stand a chance. 29km completely flat!
No chance for Nibali either, who could actually lose his GC spot in favour of Pinot, normally a better TTer and just a few secs behind.

My final classification:

1 - Dumoulin
2 - Pinot
3 - Nibali
4 - Quintana

but I wouldn't bet on that :lol:

 

[hfer07]

Rai just showed a brief video of tomorrow's ITT route.......... it fits beautifully to Tom's strengths

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

The ITT is not technical at all. And not downhill either, it's panflat and on wide roads for the most part.

That's what I thought.

Excuse me forgetting people get moto assistance. Perhaps the tifosi, or whoever in Italy loves Nibali will favour him. Don't think that matters though against Dumoulin. Tom should overtake him.

Both should get close to Quintana. In theory, Dumoulin goes ahead and Quintana holds off Nibali barely. Pinot could flog this one like he did in 2014...I will go check those times and see if he can catch Nibali. He may...gosh that would really suck. But he probably won't.

Contador did beat Cancellara in a time trial back in the 2009 Tour!

That was hilarious hearing Cancellara complain about the motorbikes!

However, there was a climb that day. Cancellara burned big chunks of Contador's advantage off on the flat.

Maybe a Nibali helicopter stage re Moser !

 

[Jolene]

Re: Re:

Pinot easily the most handsome gc boyo in our era. No contest at all.

I think the ladies should decide these things .

Contador = Most Handsome
Nibali = Sexiest
Pinot = Kind of cute
Chavez = cutie pie
BM Tom = attractive except for that chin!
Narito = no appeal
Bala = 2nd sexiest
Froome = not at all attractive

Any GC types I'm, missing?

EDIT: Landa = Very Attractive!

Back to racing.......

Contador=Spanish Fred Astaire (but those eyes!!)
Nibali=too high strung
Chaves= too young looking
Quintana=like dating your granddad
Froome= god no
Bala=used car salesman
Tom=the long lost lovechild of Gregory Peck and Montgomery Clift
Landa=mommy's boy (but again...those eyes!!)
Pinot=those white bibs!!
Jungels=very pretty

 

[Orbit501]

It would actually be quite funny if Tom D's trash talk came true and Nibs and Quintana both got shoved off the podium.

It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility to see Pinot and Zakarin claim the podium spots.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

Pinot easily the most handsome gc boyo in our era. No contest at all.

I think the ladies should decide these things .

Contador = Most Handsome
Nibali = Sexiest
Pinot = Kind of cute
Chavez = cutie pie
BM Tom = attractive except for that chin!
Narito = no appeal
Bala = 2nd sexiest
Froome = not at all attractive

Any GC types I'm, missing?

EDIT: Landa = Very Attractive!

Back to racing.......

Contador=Spanish Fred Astaire (but those eyes!!)
Nibali=too high strung
Chaves= too young looking
Quintana=like dating your granddad
Froome= god no
Bala=used car salesman
Tom=the long lost lovechild of Gregory Peck and Montgomery Clift
Landa=mommy's boy (but again...those eyes!!)
Pinot=those white bibs!!
Jungels=very pretty

Romain Bardet looks like the sugarsweet frontman of an indierock group or a shy boygroup star. There ain't no contest in sexappeal at all, really!

 

[Galic Ho]

Re: Re:

Not really.

It's power. On a flat ITT it's just pushing Watts.

2007 Tour de France.

Cadel Evans was the default winner after the first time trial and Vino being removed.

Second time trial, he lost the exact amount of time as on the first time trial.

The difference was his rival was less fatigued and had shown he was better. Cadel put over a minute into him on the first time trial. Second time trial, that reversed. Cadel was CONSISTENT in his positioning..

The rider was Leipheimer. He won the final time trial and came agonizingly close to winning a GT. Thank goodness for cycling he never did.

Very boring bike rider. But he rode to his strengths and limited his weaknesses. It worked for him.

normally for a GC climber type rider, finishing 20th or roughly there is enough in the final time trial because everyone has accumulated fatigue. First time trial you're correct. Second is about time trialing after accumulated fatigue. Strange things happen in pro cycling...

Andy Schleck when Cadel won the 2011 Tour actually did, for himself a phenomenal time trial. After the 2007 Tour Cadel's race against the clock struggled relative to the winner of each stage. He was dropping more time than he use to, aka had in 2007. It cost him the 2008 Tour...if he had done the same time as the Garmin rider Christian Vande Velde, he would have been within a second of Carlos Sastre. Carlos, rode faster than he normally did and Evans was actually slower than he expected to be.

Lost the Tour. So when 2011 occurred, he made sure he was on point. He lost 7 seconds to Tony Martin...the world champion at the time.

So without that focus...that planning...it all comes down to fatigue, weather and mechanical considerations for the second time trial. Sure it's about power...but it's always about power and fatigue at this stage.

Ask Fignon. Should have cut off that Pony Tail and saved himself aerodynamic efficiency. What I am saying is against Dumoulin is the fact he was the most fatigued GC rider the last 3 days.

The fact he wiped the floor of everyone in the first time trial is alarming, but is offset by his appearance of being a bit more fatigued.

We'll see tomorrow.

He doesn't have it won until the clock says so.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Mollema made sure Dumoulin wasn't gapped in the sprint. Quite funny.

 

[staubsauger]

Mollema certainly has been a better super-domestique in the last 2 days than Levi Leipheimer has been in his whole career.

And LL wasn't THAT bad actually!-