Giro d'Italia 2018 stage 19: Venaria Reale – Jafferau 184km

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

Wow, what a race. This is why we love GT's and the Giro in particular. One-day racing doesn't have the drama and heroism as days like this. I do wonder what would have happened if Dumoulin had not waited for Pinot(after his mechanical) at the top. Carapaz and Lopez would have co-operated in that case I guess. Although I understand Lopez and Carapaz, I believe a stage win would have been possible for them if they all would have worked together.

And, Reichenbach is the worst descender of the peloton.

Well no, apart from LBL practically every monument every year has as much drama and heroism as that.

But these questions are interesting - Dumoulin looked too relaxed at the top of Finestre, like "we'll just wait for a few guys to come back and then we can catch him no stress" - he really should have anticipated the games to come from the podium-chasers, and at some point in the descent to the Chisone valley he has to cut his losses and stop waiting for Reichenbach (who never owed him anything anyway). At the Cima Coppi the gap was 38s, by the valley it was the best part of 2 minutes; that's a complete game changer in pursuit terms, he goes from being the guy that's just up there in front of those moto's to being more than a km ahead and somewhere under that helicopter you can just about see. Carapaz/Lopez/Pino go from guys that might assist because the stage win is available to guys only interesting in racing against each other. Froome was otherworldly today but these rare rides to some extent do require the guys behind to make mistakes - in 2006 the Landis ride was only possible because nobody took him seriously until too late.

Fair point, but I was mainly talking about the drama these three weeks have brought. The battles between Yates & Dumoulin, the resurrection of Froome on Zoncolan and today. I don't see this in the calculated cobbled classics.

 

[masking_agent]

was Froome "sandbagging" all this time ? Was it a Team Sky ploy to play it this close ? I'm shocked as he's going to win most likely now ?

 

[loge1884]

this must have been one of the most epic stages I've ever seen (and I keep watching cycling since late 70s) .... on par with Andy Schleck's Galibier 2011 (the real drama in that stage was Cadel's struggle to limit the time, with a disgraceful wheelsucking of maillot jaune Thomas Voeckler) ...

 

[armchairclimber]

It WAS an epic ride ... because it was an epic gamble. Whatever the clinic stuff ... to go when he did appeared suicidal. He could not have known that it would stick .... maybe Lopez might have gone with him. He could probably reasonable guess that Dumoulin would not try to follow the attack but would ride his own tempo. Dumoulin probably, quite reasonably, thought that Froome was nuts and that he couldn't possibly carry off an 88 km attack.
So the first part of the gamble pays off. Froome goes deep and gets to the summit of Finestre with about 50 secs. Gamble number two is ride like a psycho on the descent and hope to get a few more seconds before the valley bottom. This gamble pays great dividends because Dumoulin makes a catastrophic miscalculation waiting for the FDJ boys ... though he can be forgiven for realising that he'd get no help at all from Carapaz and Lopez.

So Froome gets the best part of two minutes purely on chutzpah ... and the fact that he can climb and descend with the best when it's on the line.

The next bit is where we get into WTF territory ... Dumoulin sits in behind Reichenbach and Pinot hoping that they'll help tow him back to a far superior TT rider. Dumoulin was the only one in that group who could possibly match Froome's pace. He would have been better had he been on his own, then he wouldn't have been tempted to try to TTT with Reichenbach and Pinot. But still, Froome has to ride with incredible consistency right to the finish ... and that's where the Landis comparisons seem pertinent to me.

Still, this whenever we get a stage profile like this, it's full of posts on the morning of the stage with fans fantasising along the lines of "(INSERT FAVE RIDER NAME HERE) to launch a suicidal attack 90km out". Well, today someone did. If you can't enjoy watching that, you're following the wrong sport.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

was Froome "sandbagging" all this time ? Was it a Team Sky ploy to play it this close ? I'm shocked as he's going to win most likely now ?

I doubt it, it's probably a combination of factors. He probably had decent shape before the race - presumed enough to follow wheels for two weeks, then win the race in the last week by attacking on the final climb.

Then he crashed and Yates turned up on incredible form, then Froome crashed again and he ended up well behind where he should have been. Now the crashes have healed, Yates has cracked massively, the third week peak is kicking in, and it's all come together nicely.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

It WAS an epic ride ... because it was an epic gamble. Whatever the clinic stuff ... to go when he did appeared suicidal. He could not have known that it would stick .... maybe Lopez might have gone with him. He could probably reasonable guess that Dumoulin would not try to follow the attack but would ride his own tempo. Dumoulin probably, quite reasonably, thought that Froome was nuts and that he couldn't possibly carry off an 88 km attack.
So the first part of the gamble pays off. Froome goes deep and gets to the summit of Finestre with about 50 secs. Gamble number two is ride like a psycho on the descent and hope to get a few more seconds before the valley bottom. This gamble pays great dividends because Dumoulin makes a catastrophic miscalculation waiting for the FDJ boys ... though he can be forgiven for realising that he'd get no help at all from Carapaz and Lopez.

So Froome gets the best part of two minutes purely on chutzpah ... and the fact that he can climb and descend with the best when it's on the line.

The next bit is where we get into WTF territory ... Dumoulin sits in behind Reichenbach and Pinot hoping that they'll help tow him back to a far superior TT rider. Dumoulin was the only one in that group who could possibly match Froome's pace. He would have been better had he been on his own, then he wouldn't have been tempted to try to TTT with Reichenbach and Pinot. But still, Froome has to ride with incredible consistency right to the finish ... and that's where the Landis comparisons seem pertinent to me.

Still, this whenever we get a stage profile like this, it's full of posts on the morning of the stage with fans fantasising along the lines of "(INSERT FAVE RIDER NAME HERE) to launch a suicidal attack 90km out". Well, today someone did. If you can't enjoy watching that, you're following the wrong sport.

Superb post. Agree with every word. This was drama of the highest quality. Heroic, courageous riding from Froome, a brave but flawed effort by Dumoulin, and the left-field surprises of Pozzovivo and Yates cracking big time.

 

[loge1884]

just hope this doesn't end like TdF 2006 .....

 

[burning]

Re:

this must have been one of the most epic stages I've ever seen (and I keep watching cycling since late 70s) .... on par with Andy Schleck's Galibier 2011 (the real drama in that stage was Cadel's struggle to limit the time, with a disgraceful wheelsucking of maillot jaune Thomas Voeckler) ...

What? Dude tried to bridge to Contador & Andy on his own for an hour, and his teammates brought him back to the group before Alpe. He had limited coverage on Alpe but I recall him being front of his group (and sticking his tongue out) in most of the shots.

 

[Moviefan1203]

Absolutely incredible! One of the most courageous attacks!

 

[RedheadDane]

Still, this whenever we get a stage profile like this, it's full of posts on the morning of the stage with fans fantasising along the lines of "(INSERT FAVE RIDER NAME HERE) to launch a suicidal attack 90km out". Well, today someone did. If you can't enjoy watching that, you're following the wrong sport.

I feel like I'm repeating myself here. It was not just the fact that it was Froome who launched that 80+ K attack which made me unable to enjoy the stage, it was the fact that Yates, a guy a sympathies with very much, cracked and had to watch all GC aspirations sail away in the distance.
I guess part of me just have this weird tendency to prefer guys who've never won big races, in this case GTs, over guys who have plenty of wins already. Which means I honestly don't know what I would've done if it had been any of the other guys in the top-10-as-it-was-before-the stage (Froome and Dumoulin being the only ones who've won GTs before) who'd launched the attack, I might have literally split into two different people...
Two RedheadDanes, now there's a scary thought!

 

[Hayabusa]

Quite often you'll see fans of other riders (particularly one recently retired rider) slate Froome for not having the panache of others. Well he just proved that he has got that in spades. This is by far the most impressive stage ride I've ever seen.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Re: Re:

was Froome "sandbagging" all this time ? Was it a Team Sky ploy to play it this close ? I'm shocked as he's going to win most likely now ?

I doubt it, it's probably a combination of factors. He probably had decent shape before the race - presumed enough to follow wheels for two weeks, then win the race in the last week by attacking on the final climb.

Then he crashed and Yates turned up on incredible form, then Froome crashed again and he ended up well behind where he should have been. Now the crashes have healed, Yates has cracked massively, the third week peak is kicking in, and it's all come together nicely.

Agree. Froome was in a good form before the Giro (as Tour of Alps showed). Crashes complicated the race for him but without them there probably wouldn't have been such dramatic stages like today. Just a more controlled effort with the help of Sky train (we know it too well).

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

It WAS an epic ride ... because it was an epic gamble. Whatever the clinic stuff ... to go when he did appeared suicidal. He could not have known that it would stick .... maybe Lopez might have gone with him. He could probably reasonable guess that Dumoulin would not try to follow the attack but would ride his own tempo. Dumoulin probably, quite reasonably, thought that Froome was nuts and that he couldn't possibly carry off an 88 km attack.
So the first part of the gamble pays off. Froome goes deep and gets to the summit of Finestre with about 50 secs. Gamble number two is ride like a psycho on the descent and hope to get a few more seconds before the valley bottom. This gamble pays great dividends because Dumoulin makes a catastrophic miscalculation waiting for the FDJ boys ... though he can be forgiven for realising that he'd get no help at all from Carapaz and Lopez.

So Froome gets the best part of two minutes purely on chutzpah ... and the fact that he can climb and descend with the best when it's on the line.

The next bit is where we get into WTF territory ... Dumoulin sits in behind Reichenbach and Pinot hoping that they'll help tow him back to a far superior TT rider. Dumoulin was the only one in that group who could possibly match Froome's pace. He would have been better had he been on his own, then he wouldn't have been tempted to try to TTT with Reichenbach and Pinot. But still, Froome has to ride with incredible consistency right to the finish ... and that's where the Landis comparisons seem pertinent to me.

Still, this whenever we get a stage profile like this, it's full of posts on the morning of the stage with fans fantasising along the lines of "(INSERT FAVE RIDER NAME HERE) to launch a suicidal attack 90km out". Well, today someone did. If you can't enjoy watching that, you're following the wrong sport.

It's difficult to enjoy something when you feel the game is rigged and that the rider in question was only allowed to participate because he hired an army of lawyers to stall a possible suspension. Don't you go telling me what I should enjoy - thank you.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Haven't seen the maglia rosa go solo like this since Casagrande dominated the 2000 Giro (until a back injury made him lose it)

I didn't think the comparison would turn out to be this accurate

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re:

Quite often you'll see fans of other riders (particularly one recently retired rider) slate Froome for not having the panache of others. Well he just proved that he has got that in spades. This is by far the most impressive stage ride I've ever seen.

Don't remember, but how far out did Evans go, in 2011?

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Wow, what a race. This is why we love GT's and the Giro in particular. One-day racing doesn't have the drama and heroism as days like this. I do wonder what would have happened if Dumoulin had not waited for Pinot(after his mechanical) at the top. Carapaz and Lopez would have co-operated in that case I guess. Although I understand Lopez and Carapaz, I believe a stage win would have been possible for them if they all would have worked together.

And, Reichenbach is the worst descender of the peloton.

Well no, apart from LBL practically every monument every year has as much drama and heroism as that.

But these questions are interesting - Dumoulin looked too relaxed at the top of Finestre, like "we'll just wait for a few guys to come back and then we can catch him no stress" - he really should have anticipated the games to come from the podium-chasers, and at some point in the descent to the Chisone valley he has to cut his losses and stop waiting for Reichenbach (who never owed him anything anyway). At the Cima Coppi the gap was 38s, by the valley it was the best part of 2 minutes; that's a complete game changer in pursuit terms, he goes from being the guy that's just up there in front of those moto's to being more than a km ahead and somewhere under that helicopter you can just about see. Carapaz/Lopez/Pino go from guys that might assist because the stage win is available to guys only interesting in racing against each other. Froome was otherworldly today but these rare rides to some extent do require the guys behind to make mistakes - in 2006 the Landis ride was only possible because nobody took him seriously until too late.

Fair point, but I was mainly talking about the drama these three weeks have brought. The battles between Yates & Dumoulin, the resurrection of Froome on Zoncolan and today. I don't see this in the calculated cobbled classics.

Wait what? 'calculated' cobbled classics? That's like the least appropriate word to describe the cobbled classics with, and actually a pretty good one to describe grand tours.

Though this was of course some great drama.

 

[Winnen]

Re:

It WAS an epic ride ... because it was an epic gamble. Whatever the clinic stuff ... to go when he did appeared suicidal. He could not have known that it would stick .... maybe Lopez might have gone with him. He could probably reasonable guess that Dumoulin would not try to follow the attack but would ride his own tempo. Dumoulin probably, quite reasonably, thought that Froome was nuts and that he couldn't possibly carry off an 88 km attack.
So the first part of the gamble pays off. Froome goes deep and gets to the summit of Finestre with about 50 secs. Gamble number two is ride like a psycho on the descent and hope to get a few more seconds before the valley bottom. This gamble pays great dividends because Dumoulin makes a catastrophic miscalculation waiting for the FDJ boys ... though he can be forgiven for realising that he'd get no help at all from Carapaz and Lopez.

So Froome gets the best part of two minutes purely on chutzpah ... and the fact that he can climb and descend with the best when it's on the line.

The next bit is where we get into WTF territory ... Dumoulin sits in behind Reichenbach and Pinot hoping that they'll help tow him back to a far superior TT rider. Dumoulin was the only one in that group who could possibly match Froome's pace. He would have been better had he been on his own, then he wouldn't have been tempted to try to TTT with Reichenbach and Pinot. But still, Froome has to ride with incredible consistency right to the finish ... and that's where the Landis comparisons seem pertinent to me.

Still, this whenever we get a stage profile like this, it's full of posts on the morning of the stage with fans fantasising along the lines of "(INSERT FAVE RIDER NAME HERE) to launch a suicidal attack 90km out". Well, today someone did. If you can't enjoy watching that, you're following the wrong sport.

TomD fan here. I very much enjoyed todays stage, although a bit dissapointed at Tom not being in pink.

And I agree that Tom made a few tactical errors but I still believe that Tom was not going to be anywhere near CF. He was just in a class of his own. Froome's last climb was faster than that of Tom.

 

[Hayabusa]

Re: Re:

Quite often you'll see fans of other riders (particularly one recently retired rider) slate Froome for not having the panache of others. Well he just proved that he has got that in spades. This is by far the most impressive stage ride I've ever seen.

Don't remember, but how far out did Evans go, in 2011?

Think it was about 60k left to go for Schleck (I'm assuming thats who you mean here). That stage ranks number two on stages I've seen, never thought it would be beaten.

 

[Laplaz]

Chapeau to Froome, stunning ride. But i have to say something to those saying that this was ridiculous and disgusting. If you look at the climbing times of the Finestre you see that it was the slowest ascent of the top guns ever altough Sky going full gas from bottom. So i guess it is just the 3 very very hard ridden Giro weeks who took it's tool on most of the riders. Froome was undercooked at the start and is the only rider who is coming in top shape now. So his performance is clearly something stratospheric, but not as incredible as someone of you might think. The Jafferau by Froome was 2 minutes slower than Nibali's 2013, but that's pretty logic after his 80km escape. Nonetheles, great performance by Froomey.

 

[jmdirt]

Work is only allowing me about 30 minutes to eat and catch up on email/www. WTH!? Imagine my eyes and brain when I read 80K solo, pink kit, Froome! Hate him or love him, it was a ballsy gamble that paid off.

 

[meat puppet]

Disgusting. Glad I went riding long myself.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Giro d'Italia 2018 stage 19: Venaria Reale – Jafferau 18

The sheer strength of Froome in my opinion just made this feel less heroic. I was rooting for him on the finestre because his attack looked so crazy but in retrospective, if he had ridden the whole part between finestre and bardoneccia on his own just to be caught at the bottom of the final climb he still wouldn't have lost any time. He was so strong that going so early wasn't even a risk.
Chapeau to him anyway, but to me this felt less epic than comparable stages in the past despite on paper looking more epic than anything we've seen in decades

 

[arvc40]

How do you like them Apples !. Sensational ride by Froome.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

Quite often you'll see fans of other riders (particularly one recently retired rider) slate Froome for not having the panache of others. Well he just proved that he has got that in spades. This is by far the most impressive stage ride I've ever seen.

Don't remember, but how far out did Evans go, in 2011?

Think it was about 60k left to go for Schleck (I'm assuming thats who you mean here). That stage ranks number two on stages I've seen, never thought it would be beaten.

Oh, i remember a 1 vs 1 battle, but i thought it was him in the attack. Maybe he was chasing and had to do all the chasing by himself? Well, the fact that all the guys i rooted for were out of contention that year, my memory of that tour is a bit blurry.

How do you like them Apples !. Sensational ride by Froome.

I don't like 'm.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

Quite often you'll see fans of other riders (particularly one recently retired rider) slate Froome for not having the panache of others. Well he just proved that he has got that in spades. This is by far the most impressive stage ride I've ever seen.

That might be because this is the first time Froome ever does anything like this (not like this as in "similar to Disneylandis", but as in "really going at it and taking huge risks at a top race").