Giro d'Italia Giro d'Italia 2025 Route: Speculation, Rumours and Announcements

[OlavEH]

The economics of this sport are complex. Obviously money must on some level explain stages like the Asiago stage.

That may be. The problem is the other choices they do. Economy doesn't decide what way they climb Monte Grappa. Or on a later stage; which way they go towards Bormio. They could have used Gavia or the recta Contador on Mortirolo. They chose the easiest ascent of Mortirolo instead. Or the sequence of the climbs on the Champoluc stage.

And on the latter stage; I wonder if the sometimes couldn't choose to "save" a stage for a later year. They are almost nearby Aosta in every version of the Giro. The coudn't have said that we want to make this a queen stage, but it doesn't fit in with Finestre-Sestriere this year, so we want to use it next year instead?

 

[jackbh]

That may be. The problem is the other choices they do. Economy doesn't decide what way they climb Monte Grappa. Or on a later stage; which way they go towards Bormio. They could have used Gavia or the recta Contador on Mortirolo. They chose the easiest ascent of Mortirolo instead. Or the sequence of the climbs on the Champoluc stage.

And on the latter stage; I wonder if the sometimes couldn't choose to "save" a stage for a later year. They are almost nearby Aosta in every version of the Giro. The coudn't have said that we want to make this a queen stage, but it doesn't fit in with Finestre-Sestriere this year, so we want to use it next year instead?

Well... economy decides start and end point...

Other factors decide how to connect them.
A. Tour route.
B. Autumn schedule.
C. Best rider in world and contenders.

Due to a backloaded Tour, an easier vuelta and a tough tough worlds - Giro needed to go light...

 

[YavorD]

Well... economy decides start and end point...

Other factors decide how to connect them.
A. Tour route.
B. Autumn schedule.
C. Best rider in world and contenders.

Due to a backloaded Tour, an easier vuelta and a tough tough worlds - Giro needed to go light...

I don't think any of these are real factors.

A. Arguably the heaviest Giro route was in the same year as probably the most backloaded Tour (2011).
B. Doesn't make sense there's 4 months till the World and with an easy Vuelta you can make a harder Giro for a classic Giro-Vuelta-Worlds.
C. They couldn't know who's gonna do the Giro. They could bet on Pogacar not doing it.

 

[SafeBet]

That may be. The problem is the other choices they do. Economy doesn't decide what way they climb Monte Grappa. Or on a later stage; which way they go towards Bormio. They could have used Gavia or the recta Contador on Mortirolo. They chose the easiest ascent of Mortirolo instead.

Although I agree with the general feeling, Recta Contador might still happen.

 

[Netserk]

The economics of this sport are complex. Obviously money must on some level explain stages like the Asiago stage. I wish there was a proper third week time trial. As a Roglic fan I am not a fan of the offroad sections but everything being equal, I don't mind the route.

I think the Giro's biggest problem is that it's an Italian race with Italian organisers. The times don't favour that. The macroeconomic future is not exactly promising either.

 

[jackbh]

I don't think any of these are real factors.

A. Arguably the heaviest Giro route was in the same year as probably the most backloaded Tour (2011).
B. Doesn't make sense there's 4 months till the World and with an easy Vuelta you can make a harder Giro for a classic Giro-Vuelta-Worlds.
C. They couldn't know who's gonna so the Giro. They could bet on Pogacar not doing it.

Both yes and no.
You are right about the 2011 route. But it was the wild west era. After Banesto/US Postal train. Then Sky/Visma train - so a repeat is unlikely.

Well... the sponsors (visma i.e) wants a tour-Worlds double...

At least the Giro tries. I think the forum is too hard on the Giro.

 

[Red Rick]

At least the Giro tries. I think the forum is too hard on the Giro.

The Giro tries what exactly? Apart from trying to giftwrap Evenepoel a pink jersey

 

[jackbh]

The Giro tries what exactly? Apart from trying to giftwrap Evenepoel a pink jersey

Something different - like terms og makikg more accessible for riders and the double. But of course it requires more are trying

Of course I would like see a handfull more harshittera there like Manghen, Gavia, Stelvio. But to save the Giro we need to reduce the Tour..

 

[YavorD]

Both yes and no.
You are right about the 2011 route. But it was the wild west era. After Banesto/US Postal train. Then Sky/Visma train - so a repeat is unlikely.

Well... the sponsors (visma i.e) wants a tour-Worlds double...

At least the Giro tries. I think the forum is too hard on the Giro.

Wait, harder Giro route doesn't stop Van Aert for targeting the Worlds and doesn't impact Vingegaard's chances in the Tour.
You act as if teams try to achieve all the goals with the same rider.
I don't understand the parallel you try to make between the Giro and the Tour when the only (actual) Tour contenders (Pog and Vingegaard) aren't doing the Giro. And you could almost bet on both of them skipping it already in October.
So they are doing an easier Giro so they give Roglic a better chance for the Tour podium or what?

 

[Red Rick]

Wait, harder Giro route doesn't stop Van Aert for targeting the Worlds and doesn't impact Vingegaard's chances in the Tour.
You act as if teams try to achieve all the goals with the same rider.
I don't understand the parallel you try to make between the Giro and the Tour when the only (actual) Tour contenders (Pog and Vingegaard) aren't doing the Giro. And you could almost bet on both of them skipping it already in October.
So they are doing an easier Giro so they give Roglic a better chance for the Tour podium or what?

It's also not like you can somewhat limit the fatigue but still make solid mountain stages. In fact, apart from Finestre, the Giro tends to accumulate more fatigue than action.

 

[Netserk]

I think the 2015 route was in a sense quite easy, but its design induced harder racing, so less brutal terrain resulted in more fatigue than otherwise.

 

[Red Rick]

I think the 2015 route was in a sense quite easy, but its design induced harder racing, so less brutal terrain resulted in more fatigue than otherwise.

Think there were only like 5 HC climbs in that entire Giro. I think Verbania is a bit of an underrated design because it's an obvious break but you still have a climb hard enough to go nuts.




But you have to admit a lot in that Giro came down to the Astana vs Contador dynamic. None of Campitello Matese, Madonna di Campiglio or Cervinia are great climbs.

 

[Netserk]

Yes, they were also very lucky. It was a truly great edition.

But the structure of it and its pacing were spot-on, it not only allowed good racing but also incentivised it. Easy MTFs, so riders had to force things to take time.

 

[zlev11]

yup, an underrated feature of that Giro was the 60km time trial. the Astana leaders knew they would lose multiple minutes to Contador there so they had to attack everywhere they could.

 

[YavorD]

It's also not like you can somewhat limit the fatigue but still make solid mountain stages. In fact, apart from Finestre, the Giro tends to accumulate more fatigue than action.

That's true. The above mentioned Aosta stage with Arlaz-Tzecore-Joux is probably easier than the actual stage while being a much better design.

 

[OlavEH]

At least the Giro tries. I think the forum is too hard on the Giro.

Something different - like terms og makikg more accessible for riders and the double. But of course it requires more are trying

Of course I would like see a handfull more harshittera there like Manghen, Gavia, Stelvio. But to save the Giro we need to reduce the Tour..

It isn't therefore the forum complains about RCS and the Giro. I think the general opinion could have been far better with fewer height meters and a easier Giro in total if the design was better. Finishing at Abetone instead of Sestola. Doing a proper Monte Grappa towards Asiago. And doing a better combo of climbs towards Bormio. If that happened I think the forum would be happier even if the skipped either the San Valentino or the Champoluc stage and did a flat stage instead.

 

[pman]

I think the 2015 route was in a sense quite easy, but its design induced harder racing, so less brutal terrain resulted in more fatigue than otherwise.

I think this is such an understated point in these route threads. So often it seems like people just want the toughest route as possible and that doesn't necessarily make for better race (and isn't necessarily fair to the riders who you know, actually have to do the things we discuss). For me a smart route is one that is 1) as safe as possible 2) entertaining in terms of GC and day to day racing 3) takes some chances/novelties 4) provides for some good stages for fans to travel to the sport and catch a fun stage without feeling like they had to travel to Mars to do so and 5) Good on TV and 6) makes the organizers money because, it's a business.

But at it's most basic, it's what you said, which is harder racing without it being a slog day in and day out.

 

[pman]

At least the Giro tries. I think the forum is too hard on the Giro.

I totally agree on this point as well. We can complain about the Giro every day until May. The reality is, despite being clearly not the most elite Grand Tour and despite being an Italian race during an era without many (any?) top Italian GC guys, it has managed to not only keep it's prestige, I'd argue it has become a more prestigious race during the last 10 years. Sure some of that comes down to paying guys, like Froome and possibly Pog and probably eventually Jonas. But that get's us back to economics and why you have to finish in some of the places they finish. Plus, year in and year out, the Giro makes for the best racing of any Grand Tour. I think the same applies this year. Some of that has to do with the fact that it's not the Tour so the most elite heads of state won't target it every year and some of that has to do with Italy's geography but it's a darn good race to watch on TV year in and year out.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Plus, year in and year out, the Giro makes for the best racing of any Grand Tour.

Nah, the last exciting Giro was 2018, each edition has gotten worse since IMO. From 2015-18 the Giro was easily the best grand Tour of the year in terms of racing. But team Sky boring the pants off us in the TDF was a big factor back then, those Giro's were exciting and unpredictable compared to the TDF.
2019 - horrible first 13 days, then race is over after stage 14
2020 - just a weird edition in a terrible year.
2021 - meh
2022 - God awfull, decided in the last 5km of the Marmolarda on stage 20.
2023 - Even worse
2024 - Ok, as far as individual stages go, it was better raced than previous years, but Pogs dominance ruined the GC from stage 2 onwards.
Went on a bit of tangent there lol, but since 2020 (which had a very backloaded route IMO but some good mountain stages) the routes has gotten worse each year.

 

[Berniece]

The Giro tries what exactly? Apart from trying to giftwrap Evenepoel a pink jersey

In what way are they giftwrapping it for Evenepoel? 13.7km and 28.6km of ITT this year is not even that much. Compare that to what ASO did for Wiggins...

Just because there are some time trials in a route doesn't mean they are giftwrapping it. A GT isn't only about mountain stages, you are looking for the most complete rider that is able to ride at a high level for 3 full weeks.

 

[Red Rick]

In what way are they giftwrapping it for Evenepoel? 13.7km and 28.6km of ITT this year is not even that much. Compare that to what ASO did for Wiggins...

Just because there are some time trials in a route doesn't mean they are giftwrapping it. A GT isn't only about mountain stages, you are looking for the most complete rider that is able to ride at a high level for 3 full weeks.

Because every single mountain stage apart from a 2km section on stage 7 gives him forever to pull back lost time if he ever gets dropped on a steep section.

 

[Berniece]

Because every single mountain stage apart from a 2km section on stage 7 gives him forever to pull back lost time if he ever gets dropped on a steep section.

Why would he get dropped on steep sections? You didn't watch TDF last year, or the Vuelta of 2022?

 

[houtdffan]

yup, an underrated feature of that Giro was the 60km time trial. the Astana leaders knew they would lose multiple minutes to Contador there so they had to attack everywhere they could.

that race showed we NEED 60km ITTs

Best climber did not win. But the best climber is not necessarily the best cyclist.

Start putting 130km of flat ITTs (2 60+ km ITTS plus a prologue). Gasp, if Pog has a TT like he did at the 2023 worlds, he can start the mountains 4 to5 minutes behind

 

[Peyroteo94]

that race showed we NEED 60km ITTs

Best climber did not win. But the best climber is not necessarily the best cyclist.

Start putting 130km of flat ITTs (2 60+ km ITTS plus a prologue). Gasp, if Pog has a TT like he did at the 2023 worlds, he can start the mountains 4 to5 minutes behind

This myth that Landa was a better climber needs to stop. In a easy climb like Abetone, Contador destroyed the field, even Aru was saved by Porte. Landa was dropped.
Then Contador dislocated his shoulder and only in Finestre he was dropped (fair and square) by Landa.
- Campitello Mattese. Landa won time because of his free role. Contador was hurt and controlled Aru's attacks. Then when the pace dropped, Landa attacked and got away.
- Madonna di Campiglio was an obvious 2x1 and Contador was more worried about Aru because Landa lost 4 and half minutes against Contador.
- Mortirolo was Contador's magical comeback (1 minute behind). Landa was sucking his wheel until Aprica and then only won 38 seconds.
- Ologno: Contador's revenge. Completely destroyed Astana and Landa never was able to close the gap after his flat.
- Cervignia. The first time Contador was worried about Landa and guess what, Landa couldn't do anything. The opposite happened, Aru won time duento 2x1 strategy.
- Finestre: the only time Landa broke Contador fair and square.
But I want to add one thing. People who saw that Giro know Contador was racing alone against a super Astana. But he was really alone, many times Contador was alone against 4 or even 5 Astana guys. It was ridiculous. Landa would be that good (in the mountains) with zero support (water, tempo, etc) and after dislocating his shoulder? Of course not, Contador ALONE won that Giro. In 4 or 5 stages, Landa won the stage and/or time because Saxobank (or Tinkoff) was awful in supporting Contador in the mountains. Contador would be a double digit winner of GTs if he didn't choose his buddies to be his teammates.

 

[AupaPyama]

Contador did had Igor Anton helping