Giro d'Italia Stage 3: Amsterdam-Middelburg (209km)

[santacruz]

was really hoping Farrar could win today, I love hearing the announcer say fararararar!

 

[blackcat]

Yes well done to him..another rider i've never heard of and a great ride. more reading required on him by myself on that one.

i also agree its time for people to get off Vino's back and let him get on with his racing, and that includes me to be fair. **** knows what happened to Sky- a total disaster but they live to fight another day.

Looking for David Millar to grab pink in a couple of days time but Garmin may have lost Vandevelde for the TTT which is not good.

A Blythe:
rode for Davo, Konica Minolta, won a stage last year in Thuringen Rundfahrt u23.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

As others have noted, perhaps the most important thing to come out of today's stage is the increased likelihood of massive attacks in the mountains.

 

[plodderbob]

Ok, let me contribute something useful:

GC watch:


1 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana 10:07:18
2 Richie Porte (Aus) Team Saxo Bank 0:00
3 David Millar (GBr) Garmin - Transitions 0:01
4 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Doimo 0:05
5 Marcel Sieberg (Ger) Team HTC - Columbia 0:07
8 Linus Gerdemann (Ger) Team Milram 0:12
9 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Acqua & Sapone 0:15
11 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Androni Giocattoli 0:16
12 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Team Katusha 0:17
14 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas-Doimo 0:18
22 Graeme Brown (Aus) Rabobank 0:29
24 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:43
37 Alexander Efimkin (Rus) AG2R La Mondiale 1:26
43 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Cervelo Test Team 1:40
50 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini 2:07
55 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Sky Professional Cycling Team 4:28
135 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini 9:24
145 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) COG 9:30
178 Filippo Pozzato (Ita) Team Katusha 12:42


Oh shucks, even with a typewriter font, I can't make it to line up. Text editor pwns me.
Anyway, should be a starting point for discussion of the TTT.

Anyone agree with Millar in Pink after the TTT?

 

[trompe le monde]

Ok, let me contribute something useful:

GC watch:


1 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana 10:07:18
2 Richie Porte (Aus) Team Saxo Bank 0:00
3 David Millar (GBr) Garmin - Transitions 0:01
4 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Doimo 0:05
5 Marcel Sieberg (Ger) Team HTC - Columbia 0:07
8 Linus Gerdemann (Ger) Team Milram 0:12
9 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Acqua & Sapone 0:15
11 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Androni Giocattoli 0:16
12 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Team Katusha 0:17
14 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas-Doimo 0:18
22 Graeme Brown (Aus) Rabobank 0:29
24 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:43
37 Alexander Efimkin (Rus) AG2R La Mondiale 1:26
43 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Cervelo Test Team 1:40
50 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini 2:07
55 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Sky Professional Cycling Team 4:28
135 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini 9:24
145 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) COG 9:30
178 Filippo Pozzato (Ita) Team Katusha 12:42


Oh shucks, even with a typewriter font, I can't make it to line up. Text editor pwns me.
Anyway, should be a starting point for discussion of the TTT.

Thanks. I was trying to find this information but the gazetta website seems to be slightly testa dura at the moment when it comes to obtaining overall GC standings.

Bit of a shame that Simoni is so far behind.

 

[blackcat]

I saw him as a junior a number of times, his sprint is superior, always took them, he could get away fairly easily, with only the best staying with him until the finish or dropping them before it. Second in the Hillingdon Grand prix against the best home based pros, that as a junior as well. Fierce fierce altogether, never noisy, loud or full of himself. His fellow graduates from that year are struggling in minor races in Europe,except for Kennaugh. I'm not sure how it works but some go stellar, while others go into catastrophic meltdown.

Luke Rowe is not struggling. Building a very solid palmares. Probably will graduate in 2012 to Sky, but if they take Kennaugh as a second year, dont see why not on Rowe.

 

[offbyone]

These gaps are irrelevant. The mountains will decide this race.

These roads are dangerous. It seems like they need to reduce the size of the peloton if they plan to continue racing on these roads. The roads may have always been like this, but the peloton rides a lot faster nowadays.

 

[theyoungest]

Bobdrige and Meyer in the 'mongolenwaaier' (the mongol echelon) at 14 minutes. These guys still have a lot to learn

Do you have any idea what happened to them? Maybe they waited for Vande Velde? A bit quick to judge, I think.

 

[Cobblestones]

Thanks. I was trying to find this information but the gazetta website seems to be slightly testa dura at the moment when it comes to obtaining overall GC standings.

Bit of a shame that Simoni is so far behind.

Yes, it's kind of sad to see Simoni so far back. Same with Pozzato and Pozzovivo. Cunego is probably not so much a surprise. At least there's still 4 Italians in the running with Nibali, Garzelli, Scarponi and Basso.

About the TTT, I wouldn't be surprised to see HTC do a good effort. Garmin lost VDV today, so that must be a bit of a shock. Leaky, Katusha and Astana could also do pretty well. I'm not so sure about Cervelo, and BMC looks pretty shaky to me after today's performance. Cuddles was totally isolated. Most of his team came in 8 minutes late. It's going to be a team effort, so it's important that the riders of a team are well matched. That ain't the case for BMC.

 

[Francois the Postman]

As others have noted, perhaps the most important thing to come out of today's stage is the increased likelihood of massive attacks in the mountains.

Normally I am sorta lukewarm about the opening stages, but this was great viewing, and we certainly are hitting Italy with an almost perfect set-up for fireworks.

It's a shame some folk got really hurt on the road, but I totally disagree with the Eurosport commentators. To me the last two days highlighted what I really dislike in most stage races, that they are taking all risks out of racing by sticking to wide roads and perfect run-ins. Always felt they were neutering something that I think is part and parcel of a GT: endurance, trial, challenge.

Knowing that the end run ins are following the usual pattern, and cruising on great roads to it, it just breeds that calculated let's have an escape group dangling out there and then reel them comfortably in when it's "that time". A flat stage style that I hate, but have been forced to endure far far too often. Here, that really doesn't work as a race approach.

The only thing that would have worked, as pointed out, is to make the race on Dutch roads hard from the get-go, to make that big group smaller, and thus the road less risky. I know we have a long 3 weeks ahead of us. So what? Isn't it the point that no stage should be "comfortable, controllable and predictable? We got waaay to used to "the normal way" a 3 week GT rolls out. The last 2 days showed that that doesn't need to be the way. You don't even need tome bonuses to create interesting gaps artificially.

Everyone knew yard by yard where they would be racing. If they were so keen their main man really safe, teams were simply not deploying the right attack attitude: make the race a lot harder. They chose not to. And reaped the rewards for that attitude: Dutch lottery.

But why should only mountain stages run folk into the red in the last week and a bit?

It proved to me that the current crop of GT specialists, riders and directors, can learn a trick or two from the classic folk too: how to race here. We have started to specialize over the last decade and a bit. Well, please let that era come to end quickly if the stages can be this entertaining from the start.

As a group, they were bloody nervous, out of their comfort zone, and, ironically, too careful. And that was responsible for more crashes than anything the road threw at them.

And the main riders who actually have more all-round skills knew it. Even after yesterday's crash fest, the only thing I got from most interviews by the big names was that the nervousness was fingered more than the actual route taken.

So, to my delight, 2 great telly days. And we are having some great gaps, after the first 2 proper stages. And all we crossed was a pancake. Wow.

Glad they brought the Tour here too. Could keep me more awake than usual during the first days.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Normally I am sorta lukewarm about the opening stages, but this was great viewing, and we certainly are hitting Italy with an almost perfect set-up for fireworks.

It's a shame some folk got really hurt on the road, but I totally disagree with the Eurosport commentators. To me the last two days highlighted what I really dislike in most stage races, that they are taking all risks out of racing by sticking to wide roads and perfect run-ins. Always felt they were neutering something that I think is part and parcel of a GT: endurance, trial, challenge.

Knowing that the end run ins are following the usual pattern, and cruising on great roads to it, it just breeds that calculated let's have an escape group dangling out there and then reel them comfortably in when it's "that time". A flat stage style that I hate, but have been forced to endure far far too often. Here, that really doesn't work as a race approach.

The only thing that would have worked, as pointed out, is to make the race on Dutch roads hard from the get-go, to make that big group smaller, and thus the road less risky. I know we have a long 3 weeks ahead of us. So what? Isn't it the point that no stage should be "comfortable, controllable and predictable? We got waaay to used to "the normal way" a 3 week GT rolls out. The last 2 days showed that that doesn't need to be the way. You don't even need tome bonuses to create interesting gaps artificially.

Everyone knew yard by yard where they would be racing. If they were so keen their main man really safe, teams were simply not deploying the right attack attitude: make the race a lot harder. They chose not to. And reaped the rewards for that attitude: Dutch lottery.

But why should only mountain stages run folk into the red in the last week and a bit?

It proved to me that the current crop of GT specialists, riders and directors, can learn a trick or two from the classic folk too: how to race here. We have started to specialize over the last decade and a bit. Well, please let that era come to end quickly if the stages can be this entertaining from the start.

As a group, they were bloody nervous, out of their comfort zone, and, ironically, too careful. And that was responsible for more crashes than anything the road threw at them.

And the main riders who actually have more all-round skills knew it. Even after yesterday's crash fest, the only thing I got from most interviews by the big names was that the nervousness was fingered more than the actual route taken.

So, to my delight, 2 great telly days. And we are having some great gaps, after the first 2 proper stages. And all we crossed was a pancake. Wow.

Glad they brought the Tour here too. Could keep me more awake than usual during the first days.

I completely agree. I was really expecting the same old boring flat stage where a few sacrificial lambs are allowed a few brief moments of attention before being reeled in within sight of the the finish line. Absolutely boring. Today was an exciting race, with implications for the rest of the Giro.

 

[Winterfold]

Not sure what to really make of it so far. Except Sky need to learn that they are supposed to protect their GC guy, not take him out when they are on the front of the peloton Oh to be a fly on the wall when Sean Yates debriefed that. It doesn't matter how fit and light Wiggins is in July, if they ride like that he will not top 5.

But gutted for Cuddles, not having a team, and bummer for VDV - would have had a punt on Millar in pink if they could put a full team in the TTT, but not now.

Still, there's a long way to go, and a lot of big steep hills.

 

[Michele]

I was supposed to see a bike race today but it looked much more like a war!

 

[theyoungest]

...
Glad they brought the Tour here too. Could keep me more awake than usual during the first days.

I remember some nice echelon riding in last year's Tour, as well. It wasn't a very nice stage from a Dutch perspective (although this had nothing to do with the echelons) but spectacular nonetheless.

You're right, though. A GT rider should be able to do this. I don't think Eddy Merckx would have complained about a stage like today.

 

[issoisso]

Just saw the stage.

Words cannot describe how *** these stages have been.

This is why I hate dangerous flat stages. They add absolutely nothing at all whatsoever except arbitratily crashing people.
Next time let's all stay home and throw darts at a board full of riders' names and say "you. broken collarbone. you. 50 second time loos. you. mangled face."

*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***


***


And that's not even going into what dopehead currently has the jersey.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Lots of words

Totally agree. Some people seem to want TT's and Mountaintop finishes only and maybe a few highway sprints. The way Vino rode and maintained today proved it's not even close to a lottery.

Every GT should have stages like this.

 

[theyoungest]

Just saw the stage.

Words cannot describe how *** these stages have been.

This is why I hate dangerous flat stages. They add absolutely nothing at all whatsoever except arbitratily crashing people.
Next time let's all stay home and throw darts at a board full of riders' names and say "you. broken collarbone. you. 50 second time loos. you. mangled face."

*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***


***


And that's not even going into what dopehead currently has the jersey.

Is this because you're Portuguese, and thus don't know how to appreciate the beauty of echelon riding?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

It's the wind that caused most contenders to lost 8 minutes though, not the falls....

It's not ***, it's cycling. Accept it or go cry

 

[red_flanders]

Normally I am sorta lukewarm about the opening stages, but this was great viewing, and we certainly are hitting Italy with an almost perfect set-up for fireworks.

It's a shame some folk got really hurt on the road, but I totally disagree with the Eurosport commentators. To me the last two days highlighted what I really dislike in most stage races, that they are taking all risks out of racing by sticking to wide roads and perfect run-ins. Always felt they were neutering something that I think is part and parcel of a GT: endurance, trial, challenge.

Knowing that the end run ins are following the usual pattern, and cruising on great roads to it, it just breeds that calculated let's have an escape group dangling out there and then reel them comfortably in when it's "that time". A flat stage style that I hate, but have been forced to endure far far too often. Here, that really doesn't work as a race approach.

The only thing that would have worked, as pointed out, is to make the race on Dutch roads hard from the get-go, to make that big group smaller, and thus the road less risky. I know we have a long 3 weeks ahead of us. So what? Isn't it the point that no stage should be "comfortable, controllable and predictable? We got waaay to used to "the normal way" a 3 week GT rolls out. The last 2 days showed that that doesn't need to be the way. You don't even need tome bonuses to create interesting gaps artificially.

Everyone knew yard by yard where they would be racing. If they were so keen their main man really safe, teams were simply not deploying the right attack attitude: make the race a lot harder. They chose not to. And reaped the rewards for that attitude: Dutch lottery.

But why should only mountain stages run folk into the red in the last week and a bit?

It proved to me that the current crop of GT specialists, riders and directors, can learn a trick or two from the classic folk too: how to race here. We have started to specialize over the last decade and a bit. Well, please let that era come to end quickly if the stages can be this entertaining from the start.

As a group, they were bloody nervous, out of their comfort zone, and, ironically, too careful. And that was responsible for more crashes than anything the road threw at them.

And the main riders who actually have more all-round skills knew it. Even after yesterday's crash fest, the only thing I got from most interviews by the big names was that the nervousness was fingered more than the actual route taken.

So, to my delight, 2 great telly days. And we are having some great gaps, after the first 2 proper stages. And all we crossed was a pancake. Wow.

Glad they brought the Tour here too. Could keep me more awake than usual during the first days.

Hell of a good post. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[issoisso]

Is this because you're Portuguese, and thus don't know how to appreciate the beauty of echelon riding?

What does one thing have to do with the other?

It's the wind that caused most contenders to lost 8 minutes though, not the falls....

It's not ***, it's cycling. Accept it or go cry

Right. I must have dreamed up those two mass crashes. It's not like people even retired with broken bones or anything.

As for that last sentence, I'll remind you of that next time you complain that dutch riders keep crashing and flatting.

 

[theyoungest]

What does one thing have to do with the other?

I'm just trying to understand why you didn't enjoy watching today's stage. Phrased it a bit bluntly though, sorry for that, but then again, *** *** *** ad infinitum is not that subtle either.

 

[Moondance]

Seems like an interesting stage... Shame I had to miss it. Also, Millar is not getting the pink on Wednesday (as someone suggested). He has a couple seconds to defend vs. Nibali, and Garmin is down to 8 men with one of their top TTers in Vande Velde out.

Biggest loser of this opening three days: Cervelo. Both Sastre and Tondo are way down. They're gonna have to really ace the TTT to get some of the mojo back. Sastre is down a 1'30 on guys like Vino, Nibali & Basso and a minute on Evans. I doubt Cervelo will win any time on Liquigas, although they should be able to win back on Astana, Acqua & Sapone and Androni as well as an 8-man BMC.

Biggest winner: Liquigas. Team looks very strong; Basso & Nibali are both up there, and time has already been won on the two biggest rivals in Evans & Sastre. After the TTT i expect the Liqui duo to have around two mins at least on Carlos and Cadel, and maybe a minute on Vino. Good business all in all.

 

[issoisso]

I'm just trying to understand why you didn't enjoy watching today's stage. Phrased it a bit bluntly though, sorry for that, but then again, *** *** *** ad infinitum is not that subtle either.

When there's a crash in the pack, it's a lot about dumb luck. Sastre and Wiggins were extremely well positioned yesterday....and the guy in front of them crashed and who got through? The guys who were at the back in bad positions.

When it's about skill in navigating the wind, I love it as much as anything else in this sport

When it's about arbitrary crashing because someone else made a mistake, that's not what sport is about. Sport is about being the best and the smartest, not about who can roll the dice and get a high number.

 

[Irish2009]

Strange, but i thought it was exciting, windy/flat/fast/technical stage. Some so called GC riders teams should really learn how to ride in these conditions, felt sorry for Cadel Evans, he must be wondering tonight about how he's going to ride the TTT without a team!! He rode like a champion on the front trying to keep the gap down, more than you could say for Carlos Sastre. Main GC contenders in front group Vino/Basso/Miller........ all dopers, sorry..... ex-dopers!!!!!!!!. At this stage if anyone(clean?) is going to win this I'd put money on Garzelli/Evans....Oh and every team knows from the race manual what the stage is going to be like, every team there knew it was a twisty technical run in. As for Vino in Pink, well he is allowed race so we have to accept it, he rode well today and deserved it. There could have been 3 SKY riders in that second group today but they were called back to help Bradley Wiggans.......

 

[dgodave]

When there's a crash in the pack, it's a lot about dumb luck. Sastre and Wiggins were extremely well positioned yesterday....and the guy in front of them crashed and who got through? The guys who were at the back in bad positions.

When it's about skill in navigating the wind, I love it as much as anything else in this sport

When it's about arbitrary crashing because someone else made a mistake, that's not what sport is about. Sport is about being the best and the smartest, not about who can roll the dice and get a high number.

I agree. And someone pointed out the wind did cause some major splits today.