Giro d'Italia stage 6: Orvieto-Fiuggi, 216km

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Kennaugh is very impressive so far, but Sky managers think he can do even better tomorrow :

.

Lol

Kennaugh lost time on the uphill finish in Orvieto to Kreuziger, Kruijswijk and Duarte.

How do they think he is going to win back any on ALL of them. Kreuziger and Duarte already seem impossible to me (for Kennaugh to beat).
Kruijswijk is not a certainty, but should do better as well

 

[hatcher]

Lol

Kennaugh lost time on the uphill finish in Orvieto to Kreuziger, Kruijswijk and Duarte.

How do they think he is going to win back any on ALL of them. Kreuziger and Duarte already seem impossible to me (for Kennaugh to beat).
Kruijswijk is not a certainty, but should do better as well

To be fair to Kennaugh he spent a lot of energy getting Lofkvist into the front position on the bottom of that climb, and still only came in 10 seconds back.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yeah but even then, to expect him gaining time on a guy like Kreuziger? Or Duarte? Or even Kruijswijk (top 20 in his first GT, 13th up Zoncolan)

I do know he was 3rd in the Baby-Giro in 2009 and 4th at the U23 WC, so he does have the potential.

But up until now in the pro ranks he hasn't shown that much. 39th in the Dauphine, 31th in Pologne, 53th in Castilla y Leon.
Just think he'll need more time...It would be a very rare sudden explosion if he were able to suddenly content for top 10/top 15 (that's what you need for white)

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

To be fair to Kennaugh he spent a lot of energy getting Lofkvist into the front position on the bottom of that climb, and still only came in 10 seconds back.

how do you know he spent a lot of energy with that??

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Lol

Kennaugh lost time on the uphill finish in Orvieto to Kreuziger, Kruijswijk and Duarte.

How do they think he is going to win back any on ALL of them. Kreuziger and Duarte already seem impossible to me (for Kennaugh to beat).
Kruijswijk is not a certainty, but should do better as well

I don't think anyone's daft enough to think he can win the white jersey. Go look at CQ. He's never achieved anything whatsoever. The only actual result on there is the British championships.

If he can hang around and ride well for a week before he tanks it's a massive leap forward for him, regardless of where he finishes relative to those 3.

 

[hatcher]

Yeah but even then, to expect him gaining time on a guy like Kreuziger? Or Duarte? Or even Kruijswijk (top 20 in his first GT, 13th up Zoncolan)

I do know he was 3rd in the Baby-Giro in 2009 and 4th at the U23 WC, so he does have the potential.

But up until now in the pro ranks he hasn't shown that much. 39th in the Dauphine, 31th in Pologne, 53th in Castilla y Leon.
Just think he'll need more time...

I agree with you entirely.

Kennaugh will definitely have some really bad days in the next 2 weeks, but I like the idea of giving him something to target while he's still feeling good.

 

[hatcher]

how do you know he spent a lot of energy with that??

Because that sort of thing takes a lot of energy.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I agree with you entirely.

Kennaugh will definitely have some really bad days in the next 2 weeks, but I like the idea of giving him something to target while he's still feeling good.

As a motivation, yeah thought of that. But some riders also crack under the 'pressure' they give themselves.
This is his first GT right?

 

[hatcher]

As a motivation, yeah thought of that. But some riders also crack under the 'pressure' they give themselves.
This is his first GT right?

He started the Vuelta last year, but of course the whole team withdrew after a week. As far as I can remember he's only done one race this year (Castilla y Leon), so week 3 may be really really hard for him.

edit: tell a lie, he also did Driedaagse De Panne.

 

[Anonymous]

He started the Vuelta last year, but of course the whole team withdrew after a week. As far as I can remember he's only done one race this year (Castilla y Leon), so week 3 may be really really hard for him.

edit: tell a lie, he also did Driedaagse De Panne.

And Giro de Sardegna

 

[meandmygitane]

Bit strange tomorrow (somebody needs to make a new thread!)

The first cat. 2 to Serra Della Strada: 9,8km of 5,3%
The final cat. 2 to Montevergino Di Mercogliano: 17km of 5,02% (or 14.6km of 5,2%)

If we look at Le Tour 2007 Montée d'Hauteville (N.90-V.C): "15.3 km de montée à 4.7 % - 1 Catégorie"
and Le Tour 2010 stage 9: Col des Saisies "14.4 km de montée à 5.1 % - Catégorie 1"
then the last climb would be cat.1,

Giro d'Italia is so hard that they degrade a first category climb to a second category! (Anything over 15km at 5% is definitely cat. 1 for me).

Can you spell epic for me?
Only at the Giro baby!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

At the Giro, anything under 5% grade is considered a descent.

 

[thirteen]

At the Giro, anything under 5% grade is considered a descent.

lol! i've got to remember that

 

[Mambo95]

As a motivation, yeah thought of that. But some riders also crack under the 'pressure' they give themselves.
This is his first GT right?

I doubt will be a problem for Kennaugh. He's certainly not short on self confidence.

 

[Escarabajo]

Bit strange tomorrow (somebody needs to make a new thread!)

The first cat. 2 to Serra Della Strada: 9,8km of 5,3%
The final cat. 2 to Montevergino Di Mercogliano: 17km of 5,02% (or 14.6km of 5,2%)

If we look at Le Tour 2007 Montée d'Hauteville (N.90-V.C): "15.3 km de montée à 4.7 % - 1 Catégorie"
and Le Tour 2010 stage 9: Col des Saisies "14.4 km de montée à 5.1 % - Catégorie 1"
then the last climb would be cat.1,

Giro d'Italia is so hard that they degrade a first category climb to a second category! (Anything over 15km at 5% is definitely cat. 1 for me).

Can you spell epic for me?
Only at the Giro baby!

You'll have to degrade Alpe d'huez to Cat 1 at the Giro if we compare to the Zoncolan / Crostis combo!

 

[dancing on pedals]

Originally Posted by kjetilraknerud
I thought I saw an angry Garzelli pointing his finger to a team mate just after finishing. Does anyone know why?

I could be wrong of course.

I was wondering the same thing, he really looked annoyed at his team-mate, I believe it was Cayetano José Sarmiento Tunarrosa

mmmm i thought it was Ruggero Marzoli - either way,obviously the soap and water squad's gameplan didnt wash clean.
Great stage again though ......

 

[Fus087]

Bit strange tomorrow (somebody needs to make a new thread!)

The first cat. 2 to Serra Della Strada: 9,8km of 5,3%
The final cat. 2 to Montevergino Di Mercogliano: 17km of 5,02% (or 14.6km of 5,2%)

If we look at Le Tour 2007 Montée d'Hauteville (N.90-V.C): "15.3 km de montée à 4.7 % - 1 Catégorie"
and Le Tour 2010 stage 9: Col des Saisies "14.4 km de montée à 5.1 % - Catégorie 1"
then the last climb would be cat.1,

Giro d'Italia is so hard that they degrade a first category climb to a second category! (Anything over 15km at 5% is definitely cat. 1 for me).

Can you spell epic for me?
Only at the Giro baby!

There is no HC category for mountains at the Giro; only the Cima Coppi for the highest point in the race (which isn't always the hardest climb).
Zoncolan, Crostis, Großglockner, Finestre - they're all Cat. 1.
And you can't say that Montevergine is anywhere near the same category as those.

Basically, Montevergine is still a Cat. 1 climb - only that the HC is called Cat. 1 at the Giro, therefore Cat. 1 is called Cat. 2 and so on.

 

[meandmygitane]

You'll have to degrade Alpe d'huez to Cat 1 at the Giro if we compare to the Zoncolan / Crostis combo!

Yes, Etna at 19.4km of 6.2% is 1 cat. and Port de Pailheres at 19.2km of 6.2% is Hors Catégorie.

Hm, maybe I should do a comparison of this Giro's climbs between the Prudhomme way of counting and the Zomegnan way of counting and post it in the Giro-thread?

If someone were interested I'd do it.

Maybe Zoncolan+Crostis should be Hors HC

 

[meandmygitane]

There is no HC category for mountains at the Giro; only the Cima Coppi for the highest point in the race (which isn't always the hardest climb).
Zoncolan, Crostis, Großglockner, Finestre - they're all Cat. 1.
And you can't say that Montevergine is anywhere near the same category as those.

Basically, Montevergine is still a Cat. 1 climb - only that the HC is called Cat. 1 at the Giro, therefore Cat. 1 is called Cat. 2 and so on.

It is more of an observation of the difference between the Giro and the Tour in terms of hardness, perceived (in terms of different categories) and real. perhaps I will make that comparison in the Giro-thread.

To clarify: I slapped Tour-stickers on Giro-climbs and looked how they measured up in the french way of counting them. As Hors Catégorie is not italian, I didn't make the mistake that you thought I did.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The Giro, before this year, didn't award cat.4 at all, only 1-3, and many tough climbs weren't categorised at all. Plus, all mountaintop finishes used to pay the same number of points as a cat.1 climb does now (which is more than a cat.1 climb used to). This meant that the GC contenders would always be close to the maglia verde, so a rider would either need some big points-accumulating performances (Pérez Cuapio 2002, Piepoli 2007), to be a GC contender themselves (Garzelli 2009), to be a rider who dominated the category by being GC capable and targeting the jersey to the point of making competing for it pointless for all others (Rujano 2005, Sella 2008), or to go in an insane number of breakaways to accumulate the small points (Wegmann 2004, Lloyd 2010). The MTF category also meant that short climbs, such as Pescocostanzo in 2008 or San Luca in 2009, would give more points than legit hors catégorie climbs.

This year, the old system would have had Macugnaga and Montevergine di Mercigliano offering more points than Crostis, Finestre or Fedaia, which is why they've shuffled it a bit.

Cima Coppi = Cima Coppi
Old Giro MTF category = New Giro cat.1
Old Giro cat.1 = New Giro cat.2
Old Giro cat.2 = New Giro cat.3
Old Giro cat.3 = New Giro cat.4.

 

[meandmygitane]

The Giro, before this year, didn't award cat.4 at all, only 1-3, and many tough climbs weren't categorised at all. Plus, all mountaintop finishes used to pay the same number of points as a cat.1 climb does now (which is more than a cat.1 climb used to). This meant that the GC contenders would always be close to the maglia verde, so a rider would either need some big points-accumulating performances (Pérez Cuapio 2002, Piepoli 2007), to be a GC contender themselves (Garzelli 2009), to be a rider who dominated the category by being GC capable and targeting the jersey to the point of making competing for it pointless for all others (Rujano 2005, Sella 2008), or to go in an insane number of breakaways to accumulate the small points (Wegmann 2004, Lloyd 2010). The MTF category also meant that short climbs, such as Pescocostanzo in 2008 or San Luca in 2009, would give more points than legit hors catégorie climbs.

This year, the old system would have had Macugnaga and Montevergine di Mercigliano offering more points than Crostis, Finestre or Fedaia, which is why they've shuffled it a bit.

Cima Coppi = Cima Coppi
Old Giro MTF category = New Giro cat.1
Old Giro cat.1 = New Giro cat.2
Old Giro cat.2 = New Giro cat.3
Old Giro cat.3 = New Giro cat.4.

Great post, just thought I'd say that, both analysis and facts!
Nicely done, sir, QFT, +1, thumbs up and all that.

Gonna do my cross-over comparison now (2011 Giro-grading on TdF climbs of 2010 and vice versa plus gradient and length-comparisons)

 

[Je ne sais quoi]

But there was no sharp pull up like you usually get with cramps, think that's what makes it look so strange.

I've had cramps where my limb just stopped working like it was just hanging off the joint. Well, maybe not cramps exactly, but total lactic acid overload. Take drink and try again 30 seconds later, same thing. Scary.

 

[will10]

Yeah but even then, to expect him gaining time on a guy like Kreuziger? Or Duarte? Or even Kruijswijk (top 20 in his first GT, 13th up Zoncolan)

I do know he was 3rd in the Baby-Giro in 2009 and 4th at the U23 WC, so he does have the potential.

But up until now in the pro ranks he hasn't shown that much. 39th in the Dauphine, 31th in Pologne, 53th in Castilla y Leon.
Just think he'll need more time...It would be a very rare sudden explosion if he were able to suddenly content for top 10/top 15 (that's what you need for white)

I don't think he's suggesting Kennaugh can win the white jersey overall, he's suggesting he might be able to take it tomorrow. Frankly I doubt it but Montevergine is a weird climb, perhaps he'll hang on and if there are only gaps he does have a chance of taking it.

I don't think anyone's daft enough to think he can win the white jersey. Go look at CQ. He's never achieved anything whatsoever. The only actual result on there is the British championships.

If he can hang around and ride well for a week before he tanks it's a massive leap forward for him, regardless of where he finishes relative to those 3.

CQ results tell barely half the story for new pros, look at his U23 results.

 

[roundabout]

Yes, Etna at 19.4km of 6.2% is 1 cat. and Port de Pailheres at 19.2km of 6.2% is Hors Catégorie.

Hm, maybe I should do a comparison of this Giro's climbs between the Prudhomme way of counting and the Zomegnan way of counting and post it in the Giro-thread?

If someone were interested I'd do it.

Maybe Zoncolan+Crostis should be Hors HC

Thing is Etna is relatively steady all the way up while Pailheres is more irregular which makes it a harder climb.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Thing is Etna is relatively steady all the way up while Pailheres is more irregular which makes it a harder climb.

Don't badmouth the Giro.

Everyone knows only fanboys who know nothing about cycling watch the Tour.