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giro doping thread

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Oct 16, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
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No need to think they are doping. It is obvious.
Not even David Walsh could say "this is what clean cycling looks like" and keep a straight face.

I think for commentators such as Walsh the solution is to go into full ignore mode.

I doubt he got any doping questions during that Times session with Sutton.
 
Jun 30, 2014
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gazr99 said:
Just did a little comparison between today & the 2004 giro stage 17 as both are mountain stages after the final rest day in week 3, with the 2004 stage 21km longer. Today's stage was 3kmh faster than 2004, even taking in the fact that today's stage is shorter that's very interesting, as 2004 was right in the middle of the doping years.
GC wise nothing really happened on that stage in 2004, yes the stage was won by Tonkov from the breakaway, but the gc group was 21 riders strong and they all arrived together, today if was chaos from the first climb onwards. Comparing average speeds of stages and gt is pretty pointless, the last Giro was faster than any full genius Giro durning the 90ies, but there's a huge difference between the climbing times.
 
May 26, 2010
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Valv.Piti said:
There is a high probability that Valverde is juiced, but thats not the point really. The point was blindly comparing average speeds is very unintelligent

High probablity? You're having a laugh!
 
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Valv.Piti said:
There is a high probability that Valverde is juiced, but thats not the point really. The point was blindly comparing average speeds is very unintelligent

Agreed, it was a very short stage after a rest day (no sniggering required) in good conditions, the average speed for the stage whilst super fast doesn't tell anyone a lot.
 
I hope i'm still alive when these conversations are rendered moot.
It would be nice to fast-forward 20 years and look back at these "what if what's-his-face-is doping" threads and realize how ridiculous the discussion is.
Of course they're on the gear!
I'm curious to know to what degree it will be accepted in the future. I mean, we already have TUE's for top level athletes with asthma. We have doctor scripts claiming Pharmstrong was using steroids to treat saddle sore issues.
What's next?
 
Apr 16, 2016
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the delgados said:
I hope i'm still alive when these conversations are rendered moot.
It would be nice to fast-forward 20 years and look back at these "what if what's-his-face-is doping" threads and realize how ridiculous the discussion is.
Of course they're on the gear!
I'm curious to know to what degree it will be accepted in the future. I mean, we already have TUE's for top level athletes with asthma. We have doctor scripts claiming Pharmstrong was using steroids to treat saddle sore issues.
What's next?

Clearly it's gene doping. #theholygrail.
 
BullsFan22 said:
Valverde is to cycling what Gatlin is to athletics. Both have been suspended (Gatlin on multiple occasions) and have come back to race as well, perhaps better than they did. All this while being clean. Brilliant. Though I find Valverde more likable.

This post is the truth. It's an absolute disgrace people would claim Valverde is clean. The guy miraculously hits the form of his life in his 30s and has monster years which sh*t all over his supposed prime 20's.

Gatlin is a joke because it's so mind-numblingly obvious he's on some extra good juice, but Valverde is equally a disgrace. Both talented, but both are risking their lives incredibly, and probably more than their younger peers with their stack.
 
Mar 14, 2016
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Pantani Attacks said:
Gatlin is a joke because it's so mind-numblingly obvious he's on some extra good juice, but Valverde is equally a disgrace. Both talented, but both are risking their lives incredibly, and probably more than their younger peers with their stack.
How so?
 
Valverde has been at more or less the same level since 2003, if he wasn't injured or banned
A lot less of a disgrace than certain "I only doped once in 2004" riders who actually improve a few levels in their 30s imo
 
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Benotti69 said:
https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/735187205480697858

Fast giro.......

It sure was fast but the stages were vastly different profile wise, Col does Saisies was the first of 4 big climbs on stage 16 of the 2000 TDF so I wonder how hard they were going compared to yesterday.
I wonder how this Giro will stack up speed wise compared to last years which was quite fast from what I remember
 
This is truly an all time low we're facing. Dutch cycling is the biggest sport after football (in terms of members, TV investment and professionals combined), and they've always been somewhat critical about 'the performances' in cycling. (yes mostly because of the failure to achieve what Sky did in just 3 years)

After Good old Rabo decided; 'we don't want our name on the outfit but we'll still hold the licence and keep most of the network' - talk about a new start - there was quite an outrage when the Rabo story came out and everybody except petty man Dekker confessed. But it was mostly because of the failure of Gesink and the whole Rasmussen thing that it got so much attention. So when Mollema and Ten Dam came back, the need to question the performances just disappeared like we were back in 2007. That brings me to...

This will all disappear for 2 whole decades again if Kruiswijk launches off like this. Nowadays the national trend is cyclists taking even more cheaper fake/dirty products just to be in shape for a few weeks in the summer.
If you look at it now, it looks like Lotto-Jumbo have finally caught up, with Astana and even Katusha.
The Dutch were one of the last massive cycling nations that failed to produce a GT winner in the last decades, which made the national media and Anti-Doping Authority receive more attention and more time for journalists to investigate, that's how Rabo was uncovered. Danny Nelissen got an full hour. Boogerd got an full hour on TV, etc etc.
Just last year the Dutch Anti Doping Authority released a report with the Dutch Union of General practitioners that they treated an average of 160.000 patients a year with health problems as a direct result of grabbing the wrong jar. Most medical specialists even suspected in the report that a lot of cases were not even recognized as substance-related = This is the just the number of the guys that chickened out.
People are going to die eventually, we already got close with Aicar when everybody thinned out and couldn't handle Carbon-bikes anymore.

Kruiswijk winning is not a good thing, just examine this;
He has been operated two times, one in '08 for his femoral artery which caused his left leg to give up earlier in intensive efforts and recuperation. Notably in TTs and GC Stages(!)
Second operation was in '13. The first one proved to not fix the problem which is causing him to this day (if you look at his strava) to have an uneven pedal stroke which reduces performance, you know, apart from the 6 years of structural problems in training.
How can a guy with structural problems in his femoral artery drown The Shark and just-keep-winning-at36-like-Puerto-never-happened Alejandro.
It is a disgrace.
 
It's hard to compare Giro speeds because on the one hand, there used to be loads of sprint stages for Super Mario, but on the other hand a lot of those stages were regularly ridden piano until a couple of years ago.
 
Just for fun let's say that VN is trying to ride cleaner (I know he rides for Vino and Astana so that's a stretch), in which case he is having a solid GdI, But the headlines, and discussions are about his collapse.. The media and the fans don't want clean cycling, they want racers to win.
 
Aug 6, 2011
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jmdirt said:
Just for fun let's say that VN is trying to ride cleaner (I know he rides for Vino and Astana so that's a stretch), in which case he is having a solid GdI, But the headlines, and discussions are about his collapse.. The media and the fans don't want clean cycling, they want racers to win.

I've got an alternative explanation, just as speculative as yours.

We know that anti-doping efforts change and, somehow*, most cyclists are aware of those changes. So, doping regiments evolve as well. To me, it looks like Nibali's new program isn't as effective as the programs of the competition. That would also explain the extended "medical" tests Nibali has announced to "explain" his performance: They' ll probably want to tune their program.

There are a couple of other names in the Giro who are under performing as well, while some are doing better than expected. Maybe the true key to winning this Giro is paying the right doctor.

* Exactly how is besides the point, but probably involves that almost no party benefits from scandals.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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I always wonder why they don't calculate them properly. chaves is 56 kg his watt per kg is higher than kruiswijk for instance by a much larger margin than it stands here. when I have time I calculate myself some now I have the times.