Giro d'Italia Giro Stage 5: Modena – Cattolica 175 km

[Zinoviev Letter]

didn't have them before we saw the 3 km rule.

See the races pre 2005 when the 3 km rule came in. Any sprint lead outs were mainly done in the final km. Much less risk of a wreck going in the red for 30-60 seconds vs 3 minutes

This is a perfect illustration of the distinction between correlation and causation.

Sprinters tactics have nothing to do with the 3km rule because sprinters don’t care about time. The train tactic evolved to help win sprints and it becomes more or less prominent as sprint tactics evolve.

 

[yaco]

Landa can regroup and target the Vuelta - Often something goods comes out of something bad.

 

[fbjim]

I feel like it was about 2012 or so when you actually started to see GC teams join in on the leadout game, which led to the weird stuff of GC teams leading into 3K and then having to move over for the sprint trains.

 

[Escarabajo]

Landa going down sucks, i hate that he's out of the race.
In retrospect he should have been on a teammate's wheel near the front.
Its the little things that you have to do to stay out of trouble and minimize chances of *** like this.

That is exactly what wears down small cyclists like Quintana. He usually stays out of trouble in the flat stages but that gets him tired also. So is life. I hate to see a GC contender tumble like this.

 

[titan31]

didn't have them before we saw the 3 km rule.

See the races pre 2005 when the 3 km rule came in. Any sprint lead outs were mainly done in the final km. Much less risk of a wreck going in the red for 30-60 seconds vs 3 minutes

I think Cipollini had a sprint train pre 05

 

[Escarabajo]

You completely disagree that conventional wisdom has proven to be wrong many times? I can think of a bunch of instances just in cycling technology regarding what is fastest.

Being at the front is safer. You have more control of where you or your team is going. That doesn't mean that you are not going to crash. Look Sivakov. But it is safer nevertheless.
I hate to see a GC contender go like this. And we always are looking to blame someone. But this is racing.

 

[SafeBet]

This is a perfect illustration of the distinction between correlation and causation.

Sprinters tactics have nothing to do with the 3km rule because sprinters don’t care about time. The train tactic evolved to help win sprints and it becomes more or less prominent as sprint tactics evolve.

Besides, I'm not sure trains weren't a thing before 2005. I have flashes of Saeco drilling it 10 km from the finish for Cipo.

 

[movingtarget]

Ok Landa has become the next Porte
And Sivakov the next Landa.
And just when i was thinking that the luck of Joe Dom has taken a turn for the better...

Just like Porte he often gets involved in crashes he didn't cause. Sivakov unfortunately seems to be another Russian rider with fairly limited bike handling skills especially on descents. I think it was a case of Dombrowski either getting distracted or losing concentration for a second. Often deadly at that time of the race.

 

[Fantastico]

didn't have them before we saw the 3 km rule.

See the races pre 2005 when the 3 km rule came in. Any sprint lead outs were mainly done in the final km. Much less risk of a wreck going in the red for 30-60 seconds vs 3 minutes

You sure about that? If I remember correctly Petacchi or Cipollini had very long leadouts way before that. Sometimes it was the whole Fassa Bortolo team in front for the last 20 minutes.
It just seems that there are way more trains at once now, competing for the few spots at the head of the bunch. And then we have the GC guys trying to stay in front as well.

 

[kingjr]

Saeco had trains back in the 90s. In fact, some were wondering before the Tour 2000 if the nature of the sprints that year would be different without Saeco there to control things.

 

[fbjim]

I think Cipollini had a sprint train pre 05

He did, but it was really HTC when they got superpowered and you started to see them really fight each other a relatively long distance from the line.

 

[Netserk]

Tbh some people are unlucky, Cadel Evans crashed a lot but was a great bike handler

He may have been a good bike handler, but he was poor at navigating through the peloton.

 

[Netserk]

It's a separate debate, but I think long, straight finishes with no bends can be just as dangerous because more teams can get involved. It's been discussed before but really they need to find a better way of getting the GC guys out of the way. It'll probably lead to more competitive sprinting too.

The safest is wide bends you have to pedal through where the bunch get stretched out but no one has to brake.

 

[titan31]

He did, but it was really HTC when they got superpowered and you started to see them really fight each other a relatively long distance from the line.

I think it was still ok in the HTC train days. They were so strong that they took the front and that was it. Now, and particularly without the QS train, you've a lot and all are similar strength, and as others have said you even have GC teams mixing in (Bernal and Ineos are always up there and it got a bit ridiculous on Sunday I thought) so it's a load of riders competing at the front.

 

[Sciatic]

Just take the time at 5km except if there's an uphill finish. If there's an uphill sprint, cap the time loss that can happen due to a mechanical/crash

But sprint trains start forming from10k out in a flat easy stage like this and the GC teams will join in pushing hard to the 5k to go banner, so how will that be that different? You’ll still have 200 riders jostling for position at high speed, on roads with obstacles (unless it’s an auto race track) with upcoming hazards invisible to riders who aren’t right at the front. True, the last 500 meters will be less dangerous, but what about the rest of the run-in?
Solutions from me? Why have a stage like this at all? Does the sport really need flat sprint stages? Or so many of them?

 

[Poursuivant]

When was the last GT a GC rider didn’t crash out in the first week?

 

[Rollthedice]

Crashes will happen regardless of the regulation, this is road cycling. Every big rider had his crashes, some more than others whether it's about worse bike handling skills, positioning or inexplicable bad luck.

 

[Arked]

Ah, typical Giro flat stage carnage. It becomes more difficult to survive those than mountains...

 

[Samu Cuenca]

If a rider rides into a marshall wearing a bright vest, standing on a traffic island and waving a flag that's not the organizer's fault....................

If you're sitting on the wheel of other riders, you may have to rely on them seeing the traffic islands ahead of time and moving to the side early enough for you to do the same. If they aren't visible for all riders in the pack, it definitely can be the organizers fault. Of course it might not always be possible for a rider to find the space to avoid them, but then it can also be because the organizers have picked a road that's too narrow.

 

[fbjim]

also road furniture is more common in general than even 10-15 years ago, ironically due to cycling infrastructure/traffic calming a lot of the time

 

[Bonimenier]

Just take the time at 5km except if there's an uphill finish. If there's an uphill sprint, cap the time loss that can happen due to a mechanical/crash

Instead of a preset amount of km from the finish, wouldn't it be better to take the time right before they enter the finishing city on stages like this. That's usually where it's starts getting dangerous, but organizers don't want the finish to be in the middle of nowhere.

 

[RedheadDane]

also road furniture is more common in general than even 10-15 years ago, ironically due to cycling infrastructure/traffic calming a lot of the time

Yeah... seems lots of things that are there to help ordinary cyclists is a hindrance to pro-riders.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

De Gendt said his team car told him about 10 times on the approach about the obstruction in the road so I would assume other team cars would have done the same for their riders. If there was a flag man at that obstruction then it's gotta be rider error or team car not informing rider.

 

[IndianCyclist]

I think the time for talking is past. For safety, the UCI should neutralise sprint stages for last 5-10 k in the smaller races. Get the data and see if it works. If it works then implement the same for GTs by next year. Year after year too many broken bones and too much work/effort is going to waste.

 

[Sciatic]

I legitimately think the GC teams should just have a gentleman's agreement to neutralize things between them and hang out behind the sprint trains. The trend which started last decade of GC teams massing at the front to get their riders to the 3KM barrier has kind of led to this kind of arms race.

Sprinting and flat stages have already been marginalized enough, we don't need any more special treatment for climbers.

I disagree. Let sprinters have the track and one-day races for flat sprints!