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A lot of this as well. Cycling is has changed. Some in favour of all rounders, some in favour of pure climbers. Can't have it both ways.Netserk said:The sad thing is that we see proper mountain stages even more rarely than proper ITTs in the Tour. As it is now, one of the hardest mountain stages recently was 138km and with only 1 HC climb
I'm not (necessarily) asking for the epic of old, but really when are we to see proper hard stages where the attacks will/should come further from the finish than the last 5km?
It's not like France doesn't have the geography for it.
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*From the upcoming Netserk Fantasy Tour
Don't tell me 30km up and down is too much after Mont-Noir to see the contenders attack there. (If they need time)
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I mean riders shouldnt have it both ways in their favour, ie more tts with easier mountains, or vice versaNetserk said:Why can't you both have harder (instead of more, but for the sake of the argument more as well) mountain stages and proper long ITTs as well?![]()
Izoard and...? Which is the second?Red Rick said:Alps, just 2 MTF on climbs that are better as passes?
Galibier if I'm understanding correctly?mikii4567 said:Izoard and...? Which is the second?Red Rick said:Alps, just 2 MTF on climbs that are better as passes?
That will be a descent finish. Apparently the start will be in La Mure, so I assume Ornon - Croix-de-Fer (via Glandon from Bourg d'Oisans) - Telegraphe - Galibier, and the finish will be in Villeneuve-la-Salle, just under 30km after the last HC climb of the day. It may actually be one of the best designed stages in 2017, because next day looks like absolute rubbish...Red Rick said:Galibier if I'm understanding correctly?mikii4567 said:Izoard and...? Which is the second?Red Rick said:Alps, just 2 MTF on climbs that are better as passes?
mikii4567 said:Meanwhile, the next stage, may end up looking like this...
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Netserk said:First of, forget about Reallon and Pontis. As for no flat between Vars and Izoard...
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gregrowlerson said:mikii4567 said:Meanwhile, the next stage, may end up looking like this...
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What is wrong with this stage (apart from believing that Izoard should be used as a pass)?
The best designs tend to be stages where you have almost no flat between the penultimate and final climbs (like with the excellent Pailhares-AX3Domaines combo), which appears to be the case here. And Telegraphe/Galibier with descent finish is good also. The alps look balanced (and much tougher than 2012 for example where these pyrenees look similar, but they only had La Tousierre). Only 4 stages this time through the major mountain ranges is good for a change, and Mont du Chat and PBF stages will act as normal high mountain stages, so 6 high mountain stages which used to be the norm until recently.
They will need to throw in at least a few lumpy or classic like stages, with a couple that are more than likely to provide some GC interest, plus some potentially windy stages so as not to have too many boring pancake flat stages.
Unless they are going to put in 4 or 5 time trials, but I think that's rather wishful thinking on my behalf
Edit: Re Izoard. Unless you're annoyed that they are having the MTF stage after the descent finish stage (possibly discouraging long range attacks on the Galibier)? That, I would agree with, although the Telegraphe/Galibier combo is surely tough enough to see some action anyway. Especially if they're already had some significant time trialling beforehand so as to create serious time gaps.
Looks like the mountain stages could be weaker than "ever." Not sure why they're going with this approach.Alexandre B. said:So:
One mountain stage in the Vosges (La Planche des Belles Filles MTF) (?)
One mountain stage in the Jura (Chambéry via Grand Colombier-Mont du Chat)
Two mountain stages in the Pyrenees (Peyragudes MTF via Balès, Foix via Péguère)
Two mountain stages in the Alps (Serre-Chevalier via Galibier, Izoard MTF)
objectively, all the tour editions from 2013 until 2016 were really backloaded with mountains. I for myself don't see any tragedy in one more 2012-like parcours.18-Valve. (pithy) said:Looks like the mountain stages could be weaker than "ever." Not sure why they're going with this approach.Alexandre B. said:So:
One mountain stage in the Vosges (La Planche des Belles Filles MTF) (?)
One mountain stage in the Jura (Chambéry via Grand Colombier-Mont du Chat)
Two mountain stages in the Pyrenees (Peyragudes MTF via Balès, Foix via Péguère)
Two mountain stages in the Alps (Serre-Chevalier via Galibier, Izoard MTF)
gregrowlerson said:Netserk said:First of, forget about Reallon and Pontis. As for no flat between Vars and Izoard...
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That's only about 14 kms. Not too bad.
But about the non factor of early climbs, good point. For there would be no Queen stage in this Tour. No proper REALLY hard mountain stage, again! So they are still missing the 220 km, 4 or 5 HC/1 stage.
The death of queen stages and of long flat ITT's. It's like a chess game without the queen and rooks (come on, they look boring, only moving in a straight line!). Takes longer to find an obvious winner, but the game is no longer as exciting.
And showing us numerous castles is not a satisfactory substitute![]()
2012 was the shittiest parcours this century. It was designed for 2 riders specifically, and the easiest to control by one team, while gaps were massive in the TT's.dacooley said:objectively, all the tour editions from 2013 until 2016 were really backloaded with mountains. I for myself don't see any tragedy in one more 2012-like parcours.18-Valve. (pithy) said:Looks like the mountain stages could be weaker than "ever." Not sure why they're going with this approach.Alexandre B. said:So:
One mountain stage in the Vosges (La Planche des Belles Filles MTF) (?)
One mountain stage in the Jura (Chambéry via Grand Colombier-Mont du Chat)
Two mountain stages in the Pyrenees (Peyragudes MTF via Balès, Foix via Péguère)
Two mountain stages in the Alps (Serre-Chevalier via Galibier, Izoard MTF)![]()