Grand Depart 2017 in Germany?

[Netserk]

^^That sounds good, especially since the MTF would be before the downhill finish instead of after it.

 

[McLovin]

So a lot of 2012 Tour, again: PdBF, Grand Colombier in the middle of nowhere, Mur de Peguere, Peyragaudes. Climbs were first used on that Tour and again now.
I am sure they will celebrate Giro somehow.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

So a lot of 2012 Tour, again: PdBF, Grand Colombier in the middle of nowhere, Mur de Peguere, Peyragaudes. Climbs were first used on that Tour and again now.
I am sure they will celebrate Giro somehow.

Thats actually true. Ugh.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

So a lot of 2012 Tour, again: PdBF, Grand Colombier in the middle of nowhere, Mur de Peguere, Peyragaudes. Climbs were first used on that Tour and again now.
I am sure they will celebrate Giro somehow.

Thats actually true. Ugh.

But not necessarily bad. PdBF was so bad because it was a one climb stage which doesn't have to be the case this year. Grand Colombier was so bad because it was the only hard climb of the day, while this time it would be all about the great Mont du Chat anyway. Mur de Peguere was only bad because they did the stupid extra lap around Foix and Peyragudes isn't bad anyway.

 

[Red Rick]

How about when you have a *** idea, you come up with something that's not ***, instead of trying to hide that it's ***

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

How about when you have a **** idea, you come up with something that's not ****, instead of trying to hide that it's ****

What do you mean

 

[Red Rick]

I am mainly referring to Peyragudes here, but the literal recycling of overused, bad and *** climbs in the Tour de France is the worst. PdbF was nice in in the Vosges, let's use it every single *** time we pass through there, no matter how *** predictable.

All in all, it's just way too damn lazy for a race that's supposed to be the greatest of them all. No fresh ideas, no ingenuity, nothing that many genuine cycling fans couldn't do better all by themselves. It's like they're not even trying.

 

[McLovin]

Maybe they have a contract with PdBF, we knew since 2015 that it is going to be in 2017, at least velowire readers. I liked it in 2012 and 2014. It's short but not that indecent like some Vuelta finishes.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

So a lot of 2012 Tour, again: PdBF, Grand Colombier in the middle of nowhere, Mur de Peguere, Peyragaudes. Climbs were first used on that Tour and again now.
I am sure they will celebrate Giro somehow.

Thats actually true. Ugh.

But not necessarily bad. PdBF was so bad because it was a one climb stage which doesn't have to be the case this year. Grand Colombier was so bad because it was the only hard climb of the day, while this time it would be all about the great Mont du Chat anyway. Mur de Peguere was only bad because they did the stupid extra lap around Foix and Peyragudes isn't bad anyway.

Planche was a great early MTF for what it was worth IMO in 2012. I don't think Peyragudes either is a bad climb, especially not after Balés, but it has been very underwhelming the 2 times we've seen it.

 

[Svam]

Concerning the PBF, it is located in a remote "département" of France, Haute-Sâone, forgotten by the Tour (only one start in 99 édition). The chief of regional council is a fan of cycling and in 2012 he saw an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone by hosting a stage finish : correct this oblivion and develop sport turism in his region. The PBF site has benefited from a lot of public works to host the stage and Prudhomme has since said that the Tour will come back to help the Haute-Saône département to "soften" this investment. Additionnally, since 2012, the local boy Thibaut Pinot has risen to become a star of French cycling... This is why 2016 French road championships has been hosted in Vesoul, Haute-Sâone.

For Peyragudes, this is quiet the same "public investment" scheme. Each year, the département of Hautes-Pyrénées (often referred as HaPy in the decorations alongside the roads) host a stage. The Tour is probably the biggest event here each year (with the mid-august pilgrimage in Lourdes). The idea is to develop both summer and winter turism. Here, the difference is a rotation between the finishes (Ardiden, Hautacam, Pla-d'Adet, Bagnères-de-Bigorre, Payolle...). Peyragudes is one of the ski resort which benefits from this annual ticket for Hautes-Pyrénées.

On the sporting side, PBF is a perfect finish for a first week where one doesn't need big mountain stages. Bales+Peyragudes is a good finish which incites to attack early. However, this is not the perfect stage to be that early in the three weeks. A finish by Azet and the west-side has my preference in this position of the race.

Finally, it has to be noticed that ASO doesn't have the monopole of repetitive finishes. Zoncolan appears on a regular basis in the Giro and the Vuelta has also its redundancies (Angliru, Covadonga, Pena Cabarga).

 

[McLovin]

First, it's nice to have a velowire-er here. Nice story btw. So this explains (LS) why Pau and Tourmalet are there almost every year. And still ..... why no Superbagneres then?

 

[sir fly]

If the route stays according to the rumours, I believe ASO's idea is to serve Tour - Vuelta double to Froome.
It's not like he doesn't stand a chance on the harder routes, just the fact they'll throw a route clearly in his favour after the opposition hasn't showed they can capitalize on the routes inclined towards them.

The unknown parts of the route need to be something in order to avoid disappointment.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

If the route stays according to the rumours, I believe ASO's idea is to serve Tour - Vuelta double to Froome.
It's not like he doesn't stand a chance on the harder routes, just the fact they'll throw a route clearly in his favour after the opposition hasn't showed they can capitalize on the routes inclined towards them.

The unknown parts of the route need to be something in order to avoid disappointment.

There is nothing certain in this life. This year and last year was fit for Quintana and you saw what happened. So bring on any route. Force the other teams to do different things.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

If the route stays according to the rumours, I believe ASO's idea is to serve Tour - Vuelta double to Froome.
It's not like he doesn't stand a chance on the harder routes, just the fact they'll throw a route clearly in his favour after the opposition hasn't showed they can capitalize on the routes inclined towards them.

The unknown parts of the route need to be something in order to avoid disappointment.

There is nothing certain in this life. This year and last year was fit for Quintana and you saw what happened. So bring on any route. Force the other teams to do different things.

Well, what organizers can do is to set the route that would bring suspense. Everything else is on riders.
Next year, it appears, they've decided to couple the challenge... The Tour's just one half of it.

 

[Gigs_98]

It would be kinda strange if the tour gets a route which makes riders try the double. Such a route makes sense in the giro since that could mean a better field, but the best riders usually ride the tour anyway. However it's indeed striking that after two very climber friendly routes they make a route which seems to favor riders like Froome but still the only long ITT comes late to let the race be close for as long as possible. And ofc the Vuelta is also an ASO event so maybe there is some truth in this assumption.

 

[Poursuivant]

I think if they wanted to make it a good route for Froome they would have 100km of TT.

 

[Red Rick]

They do have to keep it Dumoulin proof to appease Sky.

Seriously though, if ASO wants Tour-Vuelta double to happen, you'll see it in the Vuelta parcours. Not to even start about riders doing that anyway as they have to sacrifice no Tour chances at all.

 

[sir fly]

Froome has already expressed an intention to target Tour - Vuelta double next season. His attempts so far weren't specifically targeted attempts.
So, I'm assuming the ASO will design TDF route suitable for conservative approach, stretching and uniting their GT business saga through entire summer.
TDF will have high ratings, no matter how the route will look like, but Vuelta will gain a lot from the double story.
As I've already mentioned, the logic might be: "Why don't we give a chance to someone who'll appreciate it."

 

[guncha]

Do I read it correctly that after stage 12 to Peyragudes the next meaningful mountain stage for GC will be stage 17 to Serre Chevalier?

 

[mikii4567]

Do I read it correctly that after stage 12 to Peyragudes the next meaningful mountain stage for GC will be stage 17 to Serre Chevalier?

Stage 13 may be mountainous, including Mur de Peugere, and end in Foix, after the descent. Thing is, if they do the loop around town, like in 2012, nothing will happen. After that, the next mountain stage will probably be 17 (stage 16 could be medium-mountain)

 

[guncha]

Do I read it correctly that after stage 12 to Peyragudes the next meaningful mountain stage for GC will be stage 17 to Serre Chevalier?

Stage 13 may be mountainous, including Mur de Peugere, and end in Foix, after the descent. Thing is, if they do the loop around town, like in 2012, nothing will happen. After that, the next mountain stage will probably be 17 (stage 16 could be medium-mountain)

Mur de Peugere will make sence as MTF only. Even without loop it will be too far from finish to create gaps. Second week looks weak.
I don't have much expectations from Serre Chevalier because stages to Briancon in 2005 and 2007 did not provide much of action.

 

[52520Andrew]

Re:

The sad thing is that we see proper mountain stages even more rarely than proper ITTs in the Tour. As it is now, one of the hardest mountain stages recently was 138km and with only 1 HC climb

I'm not (necessarily) asking for the epic of old, but really when are we to see proper hard stages where the attacks will/should come further from the finish than the last 5km?

It's not like France doesn't have the geography for it.

*From the upcoming Netserk Fantasy Tour

Don't tell me 30km up and down is too much after Mont-Noir to see the contenders attack there. (If they need time)

Was making a stage with the same exact finish. Would be a very fun stage in the right situation and the Vercors are a very underutilized place. Didn't have a race to go with it though as I have been busy on other routes. Curious to see what else you have in store in that Tour

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

The sad thing is that we see proper mountain stages even more rarely than proper ITTs in the Tour. As it is now, one of the hardest mountain stages recently was 138km and with only 1 HC climb

I'm not (necessarily) asking for the epic of old, but really when are we to see proper hard stages where the attacks will/should come further from the finish than the last 5km?

It's not like France doesn't have the geography for it.

*From the upcoming Netserk Fantasy Tour

Don't tell me 30km up and down is too much after Mont-Noir to see the contenders attack there. (If they need time)

That would be great stage. It looks more like a Giro stage.

 

[McLovin]

So we'll have a +200 km stage to Peyragaudes (from Pau), without Aubisque, Tourmalet and Aspin but with Ares, Mente and Bales.

 

[Axis]

to sum up

S 01/07 : Düsseldorf (CLM)
S 02/07 : Düsseldorf > Liège
M 03/07 : Verviers > Longwy
T 04/07 : Mondorf-les-Bains > Vittel
W 05/07 : Vittel > Planche-des-Belles-Filles
T 06/07 : Vesoul > Troyes
F 07/07 : Troyes > Nuits-St-Georges
S 08/07 : Dôle > Les Rousses
S 09/07 : Nantua > Chambéry (Biche/Grand Colombier/Mont du Chat)
M 10/07 : ----------
T 11/07 : Périgueux > Bergerac
W 12/07 : Eymet > Pau
T 13/07 : Pau > Peyragudes (Comminges/Ares/Menté/Balès/Peyresourde)
F 14/07 : Saint-Girons > Foix (Latrape/Agnes/Mur de Péguère)
S 15/07 : Blagnac > Rodez
S 16/07 : Laissac > Puy-en-Velay
M 17/07 : ----------
T 18/07 : Brioude/Puy-en-Velay > Romans-sur-Isère
W 19/07 : La Mûre > Serre-Chevalier (Ornon/Croix de Fer/Télégraphe/Galibier)
T 20/07 : Briançon > Col d'Izoard (Vars/Izoard)
F 21/07 : Embrun > Salon-de-Provence
S 22/07 : La Ciotat > Marseille (CLM)
S 23/07 : Montgeron > Paris