Grand Depart 2017 in Germany?

[52520Andrew]

I would imagine in a Briancon to Izoard stage that they would loop around to the south through Barcelonnette and hit the Vars from the south before finishing on the Izoard which sounds a lot less spectacular than the proposed detour through Italy. Maybe we will get lucky and they will climb the Parpaillon before the Vars? I can dream right

 

[Red Rick]

I'm cringing at the through of an Izoard MTF.

 

[Netserk]

The Izoard stage is going to be a farce no matter what, so I hope for a Mount Fuji design. Youtube cycling to the extreme.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Why would an Izoard MTF be that bad?

 

[Red Rick]

You get 5km action max. If used as a pass, you can get action on it and then the whole rest of the stage as well. Even if it's just a Briancon finish

 

[zlev11]

5km of action would be a huge improvement over most of the stages this year though

 

[TheYouyou7]

Re:

5km of action would be a huge improvement over most of the stages this year though

So true... And so sad...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

You get 5km action max. If used as a pass, you can get action on it and then the whole rest of the stage as well. Even if it's just a Briancon finish

So finishing a stage downhill will not only make them race Izoard harder, but race the stage in general as well? Interesting. Just like Joux Plane I suppose

Also, by the '5 km of action', you can pretty much argue that over every MTF. Its not better or worse than any other MTF. It is a pass - and then what? You still have Agnello beforehand. It doesn't really change anything that it is a pass. I would rather see a MTF on Izoard than Risoul.

And I would sign on '5 km of action' any day as long as the peloton is in pieces at that point. Much, much better than this year.

 

[Netserk]

Ventoux is the only pass that makes any sense to use as a MTF. Therefore, Izoard as a MTF is worse than almost every other MTF.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Ventoux is the only pass that makes any sense to use as a MTF. Therefore, Izoard as a MTF is worse than almost every other MTF.

Why doesn't it make sense to use a pass as a MTF? As long as it is hard enough, I see no problemo. I remember Galbier in 2011 being okay, I think thats a pass as well.

 

[Netserk]

Lol, what's next, Tourmalet should be used as a MTF more often?

A pass is a pass. It's artificial to finish a race there. Have it end in a city or ski station.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Lol, what's next, Tourmalet should be used as a MTF more often?

A pass is a pass. It's artificial to finish a race there. Have it end in a city or ski station.

I haven't said that, but Tourmalet was also hands down the best MTF in that race as well.

I just see no reason to call it a farce or cringe 'at the thought of a MTF there'. As long as the racing is good, whats the problem? The racing won't automatically be better when it finishes in a ski station and the last two times the Tour have used passes as MTF's, If I remember correctly, it has pretty much been the best mountain stage. I would much rather watch a MTF to Izoard instead of Risoul.

 

[Netserk]

The farce comment from me stems from the fact that it will start in Briancon. Otherwise, it would 'just' be crap.

 

[Cannibal72]

I realise this Tour rather skews things, but it shouldn't be forgotten (from years of Vueltas) that racing is almost always less of a protracted sprint/wattage test if you go down the hill after going up it. That's exactly what Cols are for, anyway.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

https://www.lemedia05.com/2016/37392/le-tour-de-france-sera-present-trois-jours-dans-les-hautes-alpes-en-2017/

'Le Tour de France sera présent trois jours dans les Hautes-Alpes en 2017!'

Any rumors so far as to where that first stage with a Hautes-Alpes stage finish (Serre Chevalier -- Galibier descent finish) will start?

Could be compatible with a possible (kind of expected, but not rumored so far) Alpe d'Huez finish the day prior. In which case they'll likely go Croix de Fer - Télégraphe - Galibier and then descend into the valley ...but fortunately not all the way to Briancon if the rumor proves to be correct.

Also, by the '5 km of action', you can pretty much argue that over every MTF. Its not better or worse than any other MTF. It is a pass - and then what? You still have Agnello beforehand.

No way Agnello would be included. It's on Bastille Day, so the stage will be entirely within France. Possibly Briancon - Vars from the south - Izoard (MTF)

 

[Bavarianrider]

I don't like using passes as a MTf, as well. Just doesn't seem to make any sense. Ventoux being the exception.

 

[Gigs_98]

The problem of passes as a mtf is that there are way more potential mtf's than passes. People say it makes sense to make a mtf on the Mont Ventoux, but what if there was a 2nd HC climb which could be climbed directly after the Ventoux descent, but that climb isn't a pass. If the aso would still use the Ventoux as the mtf we would have a ___/ stage, but if they use the Ventoux earlier the stage suddenly gets way more interesting.
Now we have the example of the Izoard. So let's say there is a stage which goes through Briancon just before the final climb of the day starts. Wanna have a HC mtf? Perfect, what about the super steep Col de Granon? Afaik never been used in the tdf before although it would be a great climb with unusually high gradients for France.
But you want a a slightly easier climb to encourage attacks on the penultimate climb? In that case I propose Puy Richard or Les Fonts, both never been used before. But which climb gets chosen? Of course the pass which we see every 2nd or 3rd year anyway. To be fair, I wouldn't even complain that they don't make mtf's on the climbs mentioned above since there are no skiing stations there, and there isn't a lot of place. It only annoys me because they instead use a pass which also neither has a skiing station, nor a big parking place. That just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Netserk]

Granon was used in 1986.

Totally agree by the way. Passes as MTFs is a step on the way from epic stages like Coppi's famous stage to Pinerolo to today's Vuelta stages ____/

 

[sir fly]

The peloton won't stay for too long in Germany, it seems.
Already on Monday they should be in Benelux continuing downwards south to PDF and Alsace. A tt before the Alps where MTFs will be on Galibier and Izoard.
... Wonder what the ASO wants to remind us on with this first half of the course... Luxembourg, Galibier, Izoard...
Transit to Pyrenees via Marseille and Carcassonne, and then some too optimistic expectations of the Pyrenees for Tour standards. MTFs on Peyragudes and Luz-Ardiden preceded by four and three passes successively.
And a time trial on penultimate day.

So, 5 heavyweight MTFs, of which 4 is in couples, a pair of rolling time trials and a prologue. Plenty of hills already in the first week, a visit to the coastline.
If Contador doesn't rediscover his form of the Schleck rivalry days, Galibier and Izoard won't be merciful.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

The peloton won't stay for too long in Germany, it seems.
Already on Monday they should be in Benelux continuing downwards south to PDF and Alsace. A tt before the Alps where MTFs will be on Galibier and Izoard.
... Wonder what the ASO wants to remind us on with this first half of the course... Luxembourg, Galibier, Izoard...
Transit to Pyrenees via Marseille and Carcassonne, and then some too optimistic expectations of the Pyrenees for Tour standards. MTFs on Peyragudes and Luz-Ardiden preceded by four and three passes successively.
And a time trial on penultimate day.

So, 5 heavyweight MTFs, of which 4 is in couples, a pair of rolling time trials and a prologue. Plenty of hills already in the first week, a visit to the coastline.
If Contador doesn't rediscover his form of the Schleck rivalry days, Galibier and Izoard won't be merciful.

So they swapped the downhill finish after the Galibier with a Galibier mtf, and the return of Superbagneres with a mtf we have already seen in gt's in 2012 and 2013 and the climb is more or less a pass we see basically ever year? WHYYYYYYYYY?

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

The peloton won't stay for too long in Germany, it seems.
Already on Monday they should be in Benelux continuing downwards south to PDF and Alsace. A tt before the Alps where MTFs will be on Galibier and Izoard.
... Wonder what the ASO wants to remind us on with this first half of the course... Luxembourg, Galibier, Izoard...
Transit to Pyrenees via Marseille and Carcassonne, and then some too optimistic expectations of the Pyrenees for Tour standards. MTFs on Peyragudes and Luz-Ardiden preceded by four and three passes successively.
And a time trial on penultimate day.

So, 5 heavyweight MTFs, of which 4 is in couples, a pair of rolling time trials and a prologue. Plenty of hills already in the first week, a visit to the coastline.
If Contador doesn't rediscover his form of the Schleck rivalry days, Galibier and Izoard won't be merciful.

Froomey and Sky like, Sky will choke life out of race in mountains and Froome will win by four minutes.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

The peloton won't stay for too long in Germany, it seems.
Already on Monday they should be in Benelux continuing downwards south to PDF and Alsace. A tt before the Alps where MTFs will be on Galibier and Izoard.
... Wonder what the ASO wants to remind us on with this first half of the course... Luxembourg, Galibier, Izoard...
Transit to Pyrenees via Marseille and Carcassonne, and then some too optimistic expectations of the Pyrenees for Tour standards. MTFs on Peyragudes and Luz-Ardiden preceded by four and three passes successively.
And a time trial on penultimate day.

So, 5 heavyweight MTFs, of which 4 is in couples, a pair of rolling time trials and a prologue. Plenty of hills already in the first week, a visit to the coastline.
If Contador doesn't rediscover his form of the Schleck rivalry days, Galibier and Izoard won't be merciful.

So they swapped the downhill finish after the Galibier with a Galibier mtf, and the return of Superbagneres with a mtf we have already seen in gt's in 2012 and 2013 and the climb is more or less a pass we see basically ever year? WHYYYYYYYYY?

Nothing definite, yet. Just repeated rumours.
Could be really hard route if true and avoid Alpine letdown. PDF always produces action, time trials are something to count in advance, fatiguing already from the first week should definitely reflect on the third week... I think this kind of route, although in favour of better time trialists among the climbers, is giving everybody a chance.

Actually, the Izoard stage could end up being a downhill finish to Briançon.
Not sure should it be improvement.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

A downhill finish to Briançon is a 1000% improvement on an Izoard MTF. Climbing up through the citadel after a day of tough mountains is a great way to finish a stage.

I am dead set against the Galibier MTF (from the north, it's a super climb to append to a descent finish or tempt longer moves because of its brutal two-stepped nature and high altitude, and from the south, if they can't do Izoard cos they're doing it the following day, it leaves few options for actually good stage design). We can probably do some easy guesses as to the passes in the Pyrenees, the repetitiousness of which has gone past the point of annoyance to the point of almost comedy. Let's take a nice guess: four climbs preceding Peyragudes = Portet d'Apset, Menté, Port de Balès, Peyresourde! Three climbs preceding Luz Ardiden = probably Loudenvielle as stage town? If so: Azet, Hourquette d'Ancizan or Aspin, Tourmalet!

SSDD.

 

[robin440]

lol germany only one day?

 

[sir fly]

Re:

A downhill finish to Briançon is a 1000% improvement on an Izoard MTF. Climbing up through the citadel after a day of tough mountains is a great way to finish a stage.

I am dead set against the Galibier MTF (from the north, it's a super climb to append to a descent finish or tempt longer moves because of its brutal two-stepped nature and high altitude, and from the south, if they can't do Izoard cos they're doing it the following day, it leaves few options for actually good stage design). We can probably do some easy guesses as to the passes in the Pyrenees, the repetitiousness of which has gone past the point of annoyance to the point of almost comedy. Let's take a nice guess: four climbs preceding Peyragudes = Portet d'Apset, Menté, Port de Balès, Peyresourde! Three climbs preceding Luz Ardiden = probably Loudenvielle as stage town? If so: Azet, Hourquette d'Ancizan or Aspin, Tourmalet!

SSDD.

Yes, inclusion of Briançon would be a good move. That good that I can't tell whether it's better after Izoard or Telegraphe - Galibier. I guess they should try to calculate which combo and order will provide greater thrill. Anyway, I don't think turning these two in regular MTFs should be a good move. Turning them into Alpine Port de Balès could be better. Briançon is a stage finish town every third year in average, so seeing one of these two alternatives every six years shouldn't be boring, and a downhill finish like this in three years is a good measure.
Excuse me for thinking in ASO box.
And, regarding the Pyrenees, they're mentioning Port de Les, Col du Portet-d'Aspet, Col de Mente, Col du Portillon, and to Luz-Ardiden: Col de Marie Blanque, le Col d'Aubisque, le Col de Spandelles.

I think there's a lot of unreliability in these early rumours.
The start and return to France, all the way to the Alps, looks logic, nevertheless.