Grand Depart 2017 in Germany?

[Netserk]

Re:

A downhill finish to Briançon is a 1000% improvement on an Izoard MTF. Climbing up through the citadel after a day of tough mountains is a great way to finish a stage.

I am dead set against the Galibier MTF (from the north, it's a super climb to append to a descent finish or tempt longer moves because of its brutal two-stepped nature and high altitude, and from the south, if they can't do Izoard cos they're doing it the following day, it leaves few options for actually good stage design). We can probably do some easy guesses as to the passes in the Pyrenees, the repetitiousness of which has gone past the point of annoyance to the point of almost comedy. Let's take a nice guess: four climbs preceding Peyragudes = Portet d'Apset, Menté, Port de Balès, Peyresourde! Three climbs preceding Luz Ardiden = probably Loudenvielle as stage town? If so: Azet, Hourquette d'Ancizan or Aspin, Tourmalet!

SSDD.

Glandon - (Sarenne) - Galibier (- finish at Valloire)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

A downhill finish to Briançon is a 1000% improvement on an Izoard MTF. Climbing up through the citadel after a day of tough mountains is a great way to finish a stage.

I am dead set against the Galibier MTF (from the north, it's a super climb to append to a descent finish or tempt longer moves because of its brutal two-stepped nature and high altitude, and from the south, if they can't do Izoard cos they're doing it the following day, it leaves few options for actually good stage design). We can probably do some easy guesses as to the passes in the Pyrenees, the repetitiousness of which has gone past the point of annoyance to the point of almost comedy. Let's take a nice guess: four climbs preceding Peyragudes = Portet d'Apset, Menté, Port de Balès, Peyresourde! Three climbs preceding Luz Ardiden = probably Loudenvielle as stage town? If so: Azet, Hourquette d'Ancizan or Aspin, Tourmalet!

SSDD.

Glandon - (Sarenne) - Galibier (- finish at Valloire)

Would prefer that with a finish at Valmeinier 1600 or Les Karellis tho.

Also, just personal preference, but I like CDF more than Glandon when going from north early in a stage. Later in a stage it may be different, but I like the inconsistency of CDF for creating the break moves.

 

[Netserk]

I think Les Karellis would neuter any (/most/from a top contender) action from Galibier, and I am unsure if Valmeiner 1600 would add more than it would take away.

Gladon vs. CdF is comme ci comme ça for me, if it's not in the last 50km.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

A downhill finish to Briançon is a 1000% improvement on an Izoard MTF. Climbing up through the citadel after a day of tough mountains is a great way to finish a stage.

I am dead set against the Galibier MTF (from the north, it's a super climb to append to a descent finish or tempt longer moves because of its brutal two-stepped nature and high altitude, and from the south, if they can't do Izoard cos they're doing it the following day, it leaves few options for actually good stage design). We can probably do some easy guesses as to the passes in the Pyrenees, the repetitiousness of which has gone past the point of annoyance to the point of almost comedy. Let's take a nice guess: four climbs preceding Peyragudes = Portet d'Apset, Menté, Port de Balès, Peyresourde! Three climbs preceding Luz Ardiden = probably Loudenvielle as stage town? If so: Azet, Hourquette d'Ancizan or Aspin, Tourmalet!

SSDD.

Yes, inclusion of Briançon would be a good move. That good that I can't tell whether it's better after Izoard or Telegraphe - Galibier. I guess they should try to calculate which combo and order will provide greater thrill. Anyway, I don't think turning these two in regular MTFs should be a good move. Turning them into Alpine Port de Balès could be better. Briançon is a stage finish town every third year in average, so seeing one of these two alternatives every six years shouldn't be boring, and a downhill finish like this in three years is a good measure.
Excuse me for thinking in ASO box.
And, regarding the Pyrenees, they're mentioning Port de Les, Col du Portet-d'Aspet, Col de Mente, Col du Portillon, and to Luz-Ardiden: Col de Marie Blanque, le Col d'Aubisque, le Col de Spandelles.

I think there's a lot of unreliability in these early rumours.
The start and return to France, all the way to the Alps, looks logic, nevertheless.

I might forget something but I think the last time a stage finished in briancon was in 2007. So this isn't really a stage finish every 3rd year.
I also don't really like the rumored climbs in the pyrenees. The stages would be more innovative than what libertine wrote, but I'd rather take a good stage with overused climbs than a boring but innovative stage.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

A downhill finish to Briançon is a 1000% improvement on an Izoard MTF. Climbing up through the citadel after a day of tough mountains is a great way to finish a stage.

I am dead set against the Galibier MTF (from the north, it's a super climb to append to a descent finish or tempt longer moves because of its brutal two-stepped nature and high altitude, and from the south, if they can't do Izoard cos they're doing it the following day, it leaves few options for actually good stage design). We can probably do some easy guesses as to the passes in the Pyrenees, the repetitiousness of which has gone past the point of annoyance to the point of almost comedy. Let's take a nice guess: four climbs preceding Peyragudes = Portet d'Apset, Menté, Port de Balès, Peyresourde! Three climbs preceding Luz Ardiden = probably Loudenvielle as stage town? If so: Azet, Hourquette d'Ancizan or Aspin, Tourmalet!

SSDD.

Yes, inclusion of Briançon would be a good move. That good that I can't tell whether it's better after Izoard or Telegraphe - Galibier. I guess they should try to calculate which combo and order will provide greater thrill. Anyway, I don't think turning these two in regular MTFs should be a good move. Turning them into Alpine Port de Balès could be better. Briançon is a stage finish town every third year in average, so seeing one of these two alternatives every six years shouldn't be boring, and a downhill finish like this in three years is a good measure.
Excuse me for thinking in ASO box.
And, regarding the Pyrenees, they're mentioning Port de Les, Col du Portet-d'Aspet, Col de Mente, Col du Portillon, and to Luz-Ardiden: Col de Marie Blanque, le Col d'Aubisque, le Col de Spandelles.

I think there's a lot of unreliability in these early rumours.
The start and return to France, all the way to the Alps, looks logic, nevertheless.

I might forget something but I think the last time a stage finished in briancon was in 2007. So this isn't really a stage finish every 3rd year.
I also don't really like the rumored climbs in the pyrenees. The stages would be more innovative than what libertine wrote, but I'd rather take a good stage with overused climbs than a boring but innovative stage.

Yeah, a half of its appearances is in monochrome age.
Although before 2007. it featured in 2005., as well. That's two times in three years.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

A downhill finish to Briançon is a 1000% improvement on an Izoard MTF. Climbing up through the citadel after a day of tough mountains is a great way to finish a stage.

I am dead set against the Galibier MTF (from the north, it's a super climb to append to a descent finish or tempt longer moves because of its brutal two-stepped nature and high altitude, and from the south, if they can't do Izoard cos they're doing it the following day, it leaves few options for actually good stage design). We can probably do some easy guesses as to the passes in the Pyrenees, the repetitiousness of which has gone past the point of annoyance to the point of almost comedy. Let's take a nice guess: four climbs preceding Peyragudes = Portet d'Apset, Menté, Port de Balès, Peyresourde! Three climbs preceding Luz Ardiden = probably Loudenvielle as stage town? If so: Azet, Hourquette d'Ancizan or Aspin, Tourmalet!

SSDD.

Yes, inclusion of Briançon would be a good move. That good that I can't tell whether it's better after Izoard or Telegraphe - Galibier. I guess they should try to calculate which combo and order will provide greater thrill. Anyway, I don't think turning these two in regular MTFs should be a good move. Turning them into Alpine Port de Balès could be better. Briançon is a stage finish town every third year in average, so seeing one of these two alternatives every six years shouldn't be boring, and a downhill finish like this in three years is a good measure.
Excuse me for thinking in ASO box.
And, regarding the Pyrenees, they're mentioning Port de Les, Col du Portet-d'Aspet, Col de Mente, Col du Portillon, and to Luz-Ardiden: Col de Marie Blanque, le Col d'Aubisque, le Col de Spandelles.

I think there's a lot of unreliability in these early rumours.
The start and return to France, all the way to the Alps, looks logic, nevertheless.

I might forget something but I think the last time a stage finished in briancon was in 2007. So this isn't really a stage finish every 3rd year.
I also don't really like the rumored climbs in the pyrenees. The stages would be more innovative than what libertine wrote, but I'd rather take a good stage with overused climbs than a boring but innovative stage.

Yeah, a half of its appearances is in monochrome age.
Although before 2007. it featured in 2005., as well. That's two times in three years.

And funnily enough it was also a stage finish in the giro 2007

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

A downhill finish to Briançon is a 1000% improvement on an Izoard MTF. Climbing up through the citadel after a day of tough mountains is a great way to finish a stage.

I am dead set against the Galibier MTF (from the north, it's a super climb to append to a descent finish or tempt longer moves because of its brutal two-stepped nature and high altitude, and from the south, if they can't do Izoard cos they're doing it the following day, it leaves few options for actually good stage design). We can probably do some easy guesses as to the passes in the Pyrenees, the repetitiousness of which has gone past the point of annoyance to the point of almost comedy. Let's take a nice guess: four climbs preceding Peyragudes = Portet d'Apset, Menté, Port de Balès, Peyresourde! Three climbs preceding Luz Ardiden = probably Loudenvielle as stage town? If so: Azet, Hourquette d'Ancizan or Aspin, Tourmalet!

SSDD.

Yes, inclusion of Briançon would be a good move. That good that I can't tell whether it's better after Izoard or Telegraphe - Galibier. I guess they should try to calculate which combo and order will provide greater thrill. Anyway, I don't think turning these two in regular MTFs should be a good move. Turning them into Alpine Port de Balès could be better. Briançon is a stage finish town every third year in average, so seeing one of these two alternatives every six years shouldn't be boring, and a downhill finish like this in three years is a good measure.
Excuse me for thinking in ASO box.
And, regarding the Pyrenees, they're mentioning Port de Les, Col du Portet-d'Aspet, Col de Mente, Col du Portillon, and to Luz-Ardiden: Col de Marie Blanque, le Col d'Aubisque, le Col de Spandelles.

I think there's a lot of unreliability in these early rumours.
The start and return to France, all the way to the Alps, looks logic, nevertheless.

I might forget something but I think the last time a stage finished in briancon was in 2007. So this isn't really a stage finish every 3rd year.
I also don't really like the rumored climbs in the pyrenees. The stages would be more innovative than what libertine wrote, but I'd rather take a good stage with overused climbs than a boring but innovative stage.

Yeah, a half of its appearances is in monochrome age.
Although before 2007. it featured in 2005., as well. That's two times in three years.

And funnily enough it was also a stage finish in the giro 2007

There you go... Every year Briançon hosts a stage finish.

 

[Montecampione]

Are there some recent, new rumours about the route of the Tour de France 2017? The presentation is almost within in a month (October 18) and I'm starting to get very nervous and excited - like always during this period of the year when rumor mill starts turning.

On http://www.velowire.com there is no prediction thread yet, unfortunately.

I encountered this two probable profiles about the mountain stages in the Alpes though:

 

[Valv.Piti]

Would be cool if we could get this thread going.

I found this: http://velopeloton.com/2017-tour-de-france-route/

IMO, it doesnt look too good, but who knows.

 

[Le Blaireau_13]

Hmm, that's interesting: that article names an anti-clockwise Tour, so again a conclusion in the Alps. I'd expect, after two years of Pyrenees-Alpes, that it's the other way round this your. Although, of course, nothing is set in stone on this point.

Méribel-Mottaret is a strong candidate, so I think we could expect a stage finish there.

 

[Le Blaireau_13]

On the website of Velowire (http://www.velowire.com/article/951/nl/het-is-nu-officieel--dusseldorf-organiseert-het-grand-depart-van-de-tour-de-france-2017-.html#comments) I read some strong rumours confirming an anti-clockwise Tour de France, confirming Rodez and Le Puy-en-Velay as stage finishes.

 

[Le Blaireau_13]

So, as a grand scheme of what we know now:

1. Start in Germany (time trial)
2. Some stages for the sprinters, probably one for the puncheurs.
3. Mountain top finish (PDBF) in the Vosges.
4. Rest day + time trial afterwards in Dordogne.
5. Two days in the Pyrenees.
6. Some hilly stages in the Massif Central (with a possibility of a Col du Béal-finish?!)
7. Conclusion in the Alps.

 

[barmaher]

I actually think it sounds nice enough so far. The long ITT, potential hilly stages and early MTF all augur better than recent tours.

 

[rghysens]

According to the newspaper "Het Nieuwsblad", the first stages will be like this:
1) Dusseldorf, itt
2) Düsseldorf - Düsseldorf, flat
3) Düsseldorf - Liege (Boulevard de la Sauvinière, the former finish of LBL), no idea how hilly
4) Verviers - ...

 

[fauniera]

Re:

I actually think it sounds nice enough so far. The long ITT, potential hilly stages and early MTF all augur better than recent tours.

It always sounds nice. Until the real parcours appears.

 

[staubsauger]

According to the newspaper "Het Nieuwsblad", the first stages will be like this:
1) Dusseldorf, itt
2) Düsseldorf - Düsseldorf, flat
3) Düsseldorf - Liege (Boulevard de la Sauvinière, the former finish of LBL), no idea how hilly
4) Verviers - ...

That would delay the Vosges to the weekend which opens the door for a proper PDBF stage including Petit Ballon while the Lake area around Gerardmer hosts a stage either on the day before or after.

Probably they go from Verviers to Luxembourg and from Luxembourg to Straßbourg the day after!?

 

[Montecampione]

It took a while this year, but the yearly thread on velowire.com (Thomas Vergouwen) 'sur le parcours et les villes étapes' is finally online. Less then a month to go till the official presentation on the 18th of October, so the rumors will heap up quickly the coming weeks. Pretty excited!

http://www.velowire.com/article/989/fr/tour-de-france-2017---les-rumeurs-sur-le-parcours-et-les-villes-etapes--.html

 

[TromleTromle]

Re:

It took a while this year, but the yearly thread on velowire.com (Thomas Vergouwen) 'sur le parcours et les villes étapes' is finally online. Less then a month to go till the official presentation on the 18th of October, so the rumors will heap up quickly the coming weeks. Pretty excited!

http://www.velowire.com/article/989/fr/tour-de-france-2017---les-rumeurs-sur-le-parcours-et-les-villes-etapes--.html

Concluding only on the velowire route forecast - this looks like a diaster. Extreme backload and no sat/sun worthwhile stages.

Ofc if you dont want dawg to build a huge lead the first two weeks - this is perhaps the way to go...

 

[Poursuivant]

Marseille on the Saturday rumoured, maybe a TT, if true.

 

[portugal11]

We should close this thread. Every year, we get too excited with tour's route and when comes july, it is a authentic fiasco

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

It took a while this year, but the yearly thread on velowire.com (Thomas Vergouwen) 'sur le parcours et les villes étapes' is finally online. Less then a month to go till the official presentation on the 18th of October, so the rumors will heap up quickly the coming weeks. Pretty excited!

http://www.velowire.com/article/989/fr/tour-de-france-2017---les-rumeurs-sur-le-parcours-et-les-villes-etapes--.html

Concluding only on the velowire route forecast - this looks like a diaster. Extreme backload and no sat/sun worthwhile stages.

Ofc if you dont want dawg to build a huge lead the first two weeks - this is perhaps the way to go...

There's a likely 54km TT on stage 10 he will end Quintana there if that's true.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

We should close this thread. Every year, we get too excited with tour's route and when comes july, it is a authentic fiasco

I remember people (including myself) being reasonably excited for the 2016-course. Not that it mattered one bit considering the extremely poor racing, but still.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Re: Re:

There's a likely 54km TT on stage 10 he will end Quintana there if that's true.

Please yes 54km on stage 10! At least make the anorexic dwarfs fight for their GC ffs!

 

[Montecampione]

http://www.dici.fr/actu/2016/09/23/tour-de-france-l-etape-tour-hautes-alpes-l-ete-prochain-913089

'Une très bonne nouvelle pour le département, le retour du Tour de France en 2017 sur les routes des Hautes-Alpes. Vous le savez depuis déjà plusieurs semaines grâce à D!CI Radio, le tour de France revient 3 jours dans les Hautes-Alpes, à Serre Chevalier, à Briançon, au col Izoard et à Embrun.

Après une arrivée à Serre Chevalier via le col du Galibier, le Tour partira ensuite de Briançon via Guillestre, Embrun, Savines le Lac, Le Lauzet Ubaye, Barcelonnette, le Col de Vars, Guillestre de nouveau, puis une arrivée à 2360 m au col Izoard.'

 

[Netserk]

Briancon - Izoard was always going to be that route, I guess, but it's still quite underwhelming. If only they had started more to the south so they could have had a climb before Vars and then finished the stage in Briancon.