Greats among Active Riders (quick answer)

[Kwibus]

I always watch races with non-cycling fans or ones who only start to have some interests, so sometimes I get questions like 'who are the greats among active riders' without much time to explain more about rider/race type etc..
But I always try to give quick answer that I really believe myself.
My standard answer : Boonen, Contador, Cancellara in no particular order. If they push me to mention more I sometimes go with Cavendish or Petacchi.
In answering, I don't see too far into their palmares or how they race, I only imagine which riders' achievements people will remember the most from this group in the future, as the question is not specific either about what kind of 'great' they should be.
After today I will add Valverde to my standard answer. His talent always shone, but yet to do enough for me before today.

What would your quick answer be?

Agree with you on all your points. Except I would consider Valverde a legend even before today, let alone before this season. Cav and Petacchi both have a small amount of quality wins, so their inclusion shouldn't only be considered because of their enormous win-stack.

Petacchi imo obviously not, but Cav did win Milan - San Remo and a WC. (And ofcourse an endless heap of stage wins)We can discuss the route of that WC forever, but he did finish that one chance he had.
Cav is a special sprinter tbh and imo he is a name that can be mentioned in a list of current greats of cycling.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Echos we know where you stand on the classics, they are the only races that matter . Is that attitude the norm in your country? Which country are you from, Belgium?

It's not a matter of standing anywhere. I'm just observing facts. Yes I'm from Belgium (French-speaking part). In that part of the country, the races that are covered on TV are talked about, which typically means the classics, the Worlds and the Tour of France. The Tour of Italy is only covered by the Dutch-speaking part or on foreign broadcasters and anyway it's just a recent phenomenon. Same for the Tour of Spain. On RTBF, there's only a mention in the news. Besides, the Tour of Italy is in the exam period for students, so when I was a student, few people got interested in it. However, with my classmates, we would talk about Paris-Tours, about the Worlds, about the Tour of Lombardy while these classmates were not die-hard cycling fans like I now am. They rather were football or F1 fans and yet they talked about autumn non-Belgian classics...

My father is a huge De Vlaeminck fan and Van Looy fan. He's much more chauvinistic than I am. In his opinion the Belgians had the biggest stars, period. "Really, don't you agree, son?" If I mention Kelly, he would say, Kelly is a Belgian (because he's an adopted Belgian). My grandfather is more of a Coppi and Van Steenbergen fan, I'd say. He once told me that the Tour of Spain has never been regarded so high as people now say it is. Beware, there's always been talk about the Tour of Italy, he would say, but the Tour of Spain, nah.

This is confirmed by a quote that I have from Marc Jeuniau. Jeuniau was an RTBF commentator in the days of Merckx and Hinault. He said in 1981 ["La saison cycliste 1981 - les 400 coups de Freddy Maertens" (Gamma sports)]: "the fundamental structure that shapes the cycling calendar were the major classics, the World championship and the TWO great national tours." (read: the Tours of Italy & France)

Well my father taught me to appreciate all aspects of the sport, even track, so I know the famous classics riders as well as the stage racers. Back in the day the Great riders could handle both, but those days are gone it appears.

Now we throw around the word Great carelessly IMO.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Well my father taught me to appreciate all aspects of the sport, even track, so I know the famous classics riders as well as the stage racers. Back in the day the Great riders could handle both, but those days are gone it appears.

Now we throw around the word Great carelessly IMO.

I wonder how the greats of the past would have adapted to ride in the modern era, with so much specialisation and super strong domestiques. I would imagine Merckx would have a palmares similar to someone like Cancellara or Valverde (but perhaps with a couple more GT wins than the latter). Unless he lost weight he just wouldn't be able to stay with the super thin climbers, and if he lost the weight he wouldn't be able to get over the cobbles very well; it's pretty much impossible now to win a GT and the cobbled classics - or at least to win several of each.

I think he'd probably end up specialising in classics more than GT's. Hinault would certainly be a GT specialist, Coppi as well I guess.

 

[Mr.White]

I always watch races with non-cycling fans or ones who only start to have some interests, so sometimes I get questions like 'who are the greats among active riders' without much time to explain more about rider/race type etc..
But I always try to give quick answer that I really believe myself.
My standard answer : Boonen, Contador, Cancellara in no particular order. If they push me to mention more I sometimes go with Cavendish or Petacchi.
In answering, I don't see too far into their palmares or how they race, I only imagine which riders' achievements people will remember the most from this group in the future, as the question is not specific either about what kind of 'great' they should be.
After today I will add Valverde to my standard answer. His talent always shone, but yet to do enough for me before today.

What would your quick answer be?

Agree with you on all your points. Except I would consider Valverde a legend even before today, let alone before this season. Cav and Petacchi both have a small amount of quality wins, so their inclusion shouldn't only be considered because of their enormous win-stack.

Petacchi imo obviously not, but Cav did win Milan - San Remo and a WC. (And ofcourse an endless heap of stage wins)We can discuss the route of that WC forever, but he did finish that one chance he had.
Cav is a special sprinter tbh and imo he is a name that can be mentioned in a list of current greats of cycling.

Petacchi also won Milan-San Remo, not won WC though, but won more GT stages than Cav. In my book they're almost even, Cav is ahead by a slightest margin

 

[Happy dude]

I always watch races with non-cycling fans or ones who only start to have some interests, so sometimes I get questions like 'who are the greats among active riders' without much time to explain more about rider/race type etc..
But I always try to give quick answer that I really believe myself.
My standard answer : Boonen, Contador, Cancellara in no particular order. If they push me to mention more I sometimes go with Cavendish or Petacchi.
In answering, I don't see too far into their palmares or how they race, I only imagine which riders' achievements people will remember the most from this group in the future, as the question is not specific either about what kind of 'great' they should be.
After today I will add Valverde to my standard answer. His talent always shone, but yet to do enough for me before today.

What would your quick answer be?

Agree with you on all your points. Except I would consider Valverde a legend even before today, let alone before this season. Cav and Petacchi both have a small amount of quality wins, so their inclusion shouldn't only be considered because of their enormous win-stack.

Petacchi imo obviously not, but Cav did win Milan - San Remo and a WC. (And ofcourse an endless heap of stage wins)We can discuss the route of that WC forever, but he did finish that one chance he had.
Cav is a special sprinter tbh and imo he is a name that can be mentioned in a list of current greats of cycling.

Petacchi also won Milan-San Remo, not won WC though, but won more GT stages than Cav. In my book they're almost even, Cav is ahead by a slightest margin

I think the reason people put Cavendish above Petacchi is because of his tdf wins. Because those tour wins are slightly more important/impressive (facing better opposition) than the giro. And he won the world championship. And let's be honest. A lot of people love to hate him.

Regarding my list. I think greats should be better than their similar riders. Because its impossible for sprinters to transform into GT contenders. Its not Cavendish's fault he's built the way he is.

So my list
Contador GT Man
Boonen, Classics
Cancellara, TT, Monuments
Cavendish, Sprinter
Tony Martin, TT, Long range attacker ( much more impressive than Voight) and absolute selfless engine. He does so much work for Cavendish and more recently kwiato. How many tdf stage wins would Cav have without Tony martin as his HTC Power house.
Is it possible for there to be a 'greatest' domestique.
What about lead out men? Can they be considered great?

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Well my father taught me to appreciate all aspects of the sport, even track, so I know the famous classics riders as well as the stage racers. Back in the day the Great riders could handle both, but those days are gone it appears.

Now we throw around the word Great carelessly IMO.

I wonder how the greats of the past would have adapted to ride in the modern era, with so much specialisation and super strong domestiques. I would imagine Merckx would have a palmares similar to someone like Cancellara or Valverde (but perhaps with a couple more GT wins than the latter). Unless he lost weight he just wouldn't be able to stay with the super thin climbers, and if he lost the weight he wouldn't be able to get over the cobbles very well; it's pretty much impossible now to win a GT and the cobbled classics - or at least to win several of each.

I think he'd probably end up specialising in classics more than GT's. Hinault would certainly be a GT specialist, Coppi as well I guess.

It's a totally new game out there now so I don't think the Greats of yesterday year would rack up GTs plus classics in large quantities. The very best would have either many GTs and a few classics, or many classics and a few GTs. It is impossible to be dominate in all categories now, unless a true Alien appears!

But the Greats list is very short and certainly there are not 10 riders currently racing that will be spoken of with reverence 50 years from now. At least IMO.

 

[gunara]

Re: Re:

But the Greats list is very short and certainly there are not 10 riders currently racing that will be spoken of with reverence 50 years from now. At least IMO.

True, that's why I'm only sure about Boonen, Contador, and Cancellara, I'm almost 100% sure that in the future cycling fans will still make some references to these three. Cav will also get a lot of mentions and Valverde will be familiar to more serious fans who in turn may inspect further on his unique palmares. And that's only my opinion, I'm sure most posters here also try to project the future when picking their 'greats', of course with different results and numbers.
As for the mentions of the 'top 10' among the current riders, I think it's just for more fun

 

[SyroboiII]

I'm still glad I brought Voigt into the discussion. Now you guys are forced to take him very seriously and admit that he is one of the best all-rounders of his generation. Name 20 current riders who have a greater legacy. Oh wait, you can't.

You are missing the point about heroes. They are not judged by the numbers of wins but by their initiative and courage.

 

[SyroboiII]

The real elite trio. Riding with the best climbers while he sacrifices his own chances of winning for Andy. Now tell me again that Voigt is not a legend?

 

[Noverca]

Re:

The real elite trio. Riding with the best climbers while he sacrifices his own chances of winning for Andy. Now tell me again that Voigt is not a legend?

Like every domestique does?

Sylvester Szmyd, a legend.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Like every domestique does?

Sylvester Szmyd, a legend.

Dani Navarro, a legend.
Luca Paolini, a legend.

 

[SyroboiII]

Re: Re:

The real elite trio. Riding with the best climbers while he sacrifices his own chances of winning for Andy. Now tell me again that Voigt is not a legend?

Like every domestique does?

Sylvester Szmyd, a legend.

http://www.startstrongmonday.com/2013/07/19/15-reasons-jens-voigt-cyclist-planet-earth/

I'm not the only one who admit that Jens is one of the best cyclists that ever have been there.

 

[SyroboiII]

Re: Re:

Like every domestique does?

Sylvester Szmyd, a legend.

Dani Navarro, a legend.
Luca Paolini, a legend.

Lol, not even close. They are not riding with the best up a brutal mountain stage like Jens.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

The real elite trio. Riding with the best climbers while he sacrifices his own chances of winning for Andy. Now tell me again that Voigt is not a legend?

Voigt is not a legend.

He's a cheap trading card at best.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

The real elite trio. Riding with the best climbers while he sacrifices his own chances of winning for Andy. Now tell me again that Voigt is not a legend?

Like every domestique does?

Sylvester Szmyd, a legend.

http://www.startstrongmonday.com/2013/07/19/15-reasons-jens-voigt-cyclist-planet-earth/

I'm not the only one who admit that Jens is one of the best cyclists that ever have been there.

Go home, shill.

 

[Mr.White]

Voigt is not legend, by any means

Luca Paolini is a rider with big R compared to Voigt

 

[SyroboiII]

Re:

Voigt is not legend, by any means

Luca Paolini is a rider with big R compared to Voigt

Contador, Froome and Valverde would disagree with you.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Voigt is not legend, by any means

Luca Paolini is a rider with big R compared to Voigt

Contador, Froome and Valverde would disagree with you.

Posts an image of the climb up to Annecy-Semnoz, where he attacked from the break and was caught 9 (nine) kilometers from the summit.

Talk about shooting one's own foot.

 

[Eagle]

Re: Re:

Like every domestique does?

Sylvester Szmyd, a legend.

Dani Navarro, a legend.
Luca Paolini, a legend.

Lol, not even close. They are not riding with the best up a brutal mountain stage like Jens.

 

[SeriousSam]

Decidedly too many photos depicting Andy Scheck being posted considering this is a thread about both great and active riders

 

[Netserk]

Contador is great. Is it just me or are his arms slimmer nowadays?

edit: Just to add two other greats, although retired, Di Luca and Simoni.

edit2: Who can forget grande Lance!

 

[Eagle]

Re:

Decidedly too many photos depicting Andy Scheck being posted considering this is a thread about both great and active riders

Haha, Andys always lurking

 

[woodenswan]

Contador, Cancellara, and Boonen. Aaaaand Samuel Dumoulin.

Aaaand Nairito! Turned professional at the age of 46, now 50, and showing no signs of slowing down!

Which brings us to Rebellin!

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Contador, Cancellara, and Boonen. Aaaaand Samuel Dumoulin.

Aaaand Nairito! Turned professional at the age of 46, now 50, and showing no signs of slowing down!

Which brings us to Rebellin!

Nairo does look about 46 doesn't he.
I don't think he's a great yet...maybe down the road he'll win enough to have that title someday.

 

[jaylew]

No order:

True greats: Valverde, Contador, Cancellara, Boonen

Next Teir: Cavendish, Gilbert, Nibali, Cunego, Rodriguez, Froome,

Wiggins, Rebellin, Basso, and Petacchi miss out