Greg Van Avermaet

[Flamin]

Re:

Hey, where's your sense of optimism?

On the first work day of the week?!

 

[Ikbengodniet]

He is starting in LBL.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Very good decision by GVA.
Of course he might not get a result, but hopefully he can add some value in the entertainment department.

 

[Flamin]

Great. This is clearly a test for future reference if it's worth targetting it (still in combination with the cobble classics of course but perhaps he'll then drop a few races like Omloop or Strade).

Definitely a positive for the race since there's no pressure whatsoever and he has zero to lose. If he has the legs, he will attack.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

GVA is too heavy for Liege right now.

And it's properly too hard for him.

That's what they said of the Olympic road race...
That being said, his season has been quite full so far. He's someone (like Valverde) that can be very good for a long time, but this race may come a bit too late.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

GVA looked like a Boogerd type of rider, always making the race but never winning. However, GVA is now riding smarter and he actually has a good sprint, much better and more allround then the one I compared him with. So now he is unleashed.

When Sagan tried riding smarter than we'll see tho. I still believe Sagan in peak form is physically stronger then any other classics rider.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

GVA looked like a Boogerd type of rider, always making the race but never winning. However, GVA is now riding smarter and he actually has a good sprint, much better and more allround then the one I compared him with. So now he is unleashed.

When Sagan tried riding smarter than we'll see tho. I still believe Sagan in peak form is physically stronger then any other classics rider.

Maybe. I think he is the best for MSR when he can go 100% on Poggio, same for Flanders with Kwaremont and Paterberg if the race hasn't opened significantly beforehand, but right now, there are 3 better, all-round classics riders than Sagan. Sagan can't win Strade at his peak (I think history supports that), can't win Roubaix, cant win Amstel and most certainly can't win L-B-L and Lombardia.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

GVA looked like a Boogerd type of rider, always making the race but never winning. However, GVA is now riding smarter and he actually has a good sprint, much better and more allround then the one I compared him with. So now he is unleashed.

When Sagan tried riding smarter than we'll see tho. I still believe Sagan in peak form is physically stronger then any other classics rider.

Maybe. I think he is the best for MSR when he can go 100% on Poggio, same for Flanders with Kwaremont and Paterberg if the race hasn't opened significantly beforehand, but right now, there are 3 better, all-round classics riders than Sagan. Sagan can't win Strade at his peak (I think history supports that), can't win Roubaix, cant win Amstel and most certainly can't win L-B-L and Lombardia.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Re: Re:

GVA looked like a Boogerd type of rider, always making the race but never winning. However, GVA is now riding smarter and he actually has a good sprint, much better and more allround then the one I compared him with. So now he is unleashed.

When Sagan tried riding smarter than we'll see tho. I still believe Sagan in peak form is physically stronger then any other classics rider.

Maybe. I think he is the best for MSR when he can go 100% on Poggio, same for Flanders with Kwaremont and Paterberg if the race hasn't opened significantly beforehand, but right now, there are 3 better, all-round classics riders than Sagan. Sagan can't win Strade at his peak (I think history supports that), can't win Roubaix, cant win Amstel and most certainly can't win L-B-L and Lombardia.

I still can't believe he threw away that MSR win lol. That was pretty embarrassing imo. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to win Roubaix or Amstel though. I agree that LBL and Lombardia have too much climbing for him to win (unless it's raced very conservatively I suppose), but Roubaix and Amstel are definitely winnable for him.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

GVA looked like a Boogerd type of rider, always making the race but never winning. However, GVA is now riding smarter and he actually has a good sprint, much better and more allround then the one I compared him with. So now he is unleashed.

When Sagan tried riding smarter than we'll see tho. I still believe Sagan in peak form is physically stronger then any other classics rider.

Maybe. I think he is the best for MSR when he can go 100% on Poggio, same for Flanders with Kwaremont and Paterberg if the race hasn't opened significantly beforehand, but right now, there are 3 better, all-round classics riders than Sagan. Sagan can't win Strade at his peak (I think history supports that), can't win Roubaix, cant win Amstel and most certainly can't win L-B-L and Lombardia.

I still can't believe he threw away that MSR win lol. That was pretty embarrassing imo. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to win Roubaix or Amstel though. I agree that LBL and Lombardia have too much climbing for him to win (unless it's raced very conservatively I suppose), but Roubaix and Amstel are definitely winnable for him.

As is Strade, of course. Just because he has lost a couple of times does not mean that he will never win. Even though people often say that about Sagan but that doesn't really make any sense.

 

[El Pistolero]

Sagan would have definitely lost that sprint against Kwiatkowski in the Amstel Gold Race.

 

[Anderis]

Re: Re:

Sagan can't win Strade at his peak (I think history supports that)

I think it's the other way around.

If you can finish 2nd in a race twice, that means you can also win it if the stars align.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Sagan would have definitely lost that sprint against Kwiatkowski in the Amstel Gold Race.

You're quite the oracle, aren't you?

I'm not denying he might have lost it, but we have really been robbed the chance to make that assessment, since he managed to not be in the mix in the finale of neither Strade, E3, GW, Flanders or Roubaix this season. And where were Kwiato and GvA when the going got rough in Tirreno? Nowhere, that's right (okay, Kwiatkowski had a different approach to that stage so we can't really compare his climbing skills to Sagan's). That win from Sagan was the true monster performance of the spring, yet people continue to discredit him.

My guess is that everyone who thinks that Sagan has lost it (which seems to be quite a surprisingly large number of people) may be in for a shocker when he returns and makes a fool of everyone in California, TdS and TdF (which of course is a boring race, where a true racer like Gilbert has nothing to do, I know).

 

[frisenfruitig]

I don't really think a lot of people are claiming Sagan has 'lost it' though. Perhaps I haven't been paying enough attention. I wouldn't be surprised to see him win a couple of stages in the TdF and win the WC again.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Sagan would have definitely lost that sprint against Kwiatkowski in the Amstel Gold Race.

You're quite the oracle, aren't you?

I'm not denying he might have lost it, but we have really been robbed the chance to make that assessment, since he managed to not be in the mix in the finale of neither Strade, E3, GW, Flanders or Roubaix this season. And where were Kwiato and GvA when the going got rough in Tirreno? Nowhere, that's right (okay, Kwiatkowski had a different approach to that stage so we can't really compare his climbing skills to Sagan's). That win from Sagan was the true monster performance of the spring, yet people continue to discredit him.

My guess is that everyone who thinks that Sagan has lost it (which seems to be quite a surprisingly large number of people) may be in for a shocker when he returns and makes a fool of everyone in California, TdS and TdF (which of course is a boring race, where a true racer like Gilbert has nothing to do, I know).

Tirreno-Adriatico is just a prep race. The stages are around 60km shorter than a real classic. They're not raced very hard either, especially when you compare it to classics like Gent-Wevelgem, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Paris-Roubaix and the Amstel Gold Race. When Sagan has to sprint from a small group after a hard, long race he almost always loses the sprint.

His two WC wins were due to very conservative racing until the final few kms (or final km in the case of Doha). That's how most World Championship are ridden lately, so I don't blame him for that. It's up to his rivals to make the race long and hard. If they fail to do that they only have themselves to blame. And his win in the Ronde was from a solo.

His only sprint win in a classic was Gent-Wevelgem last year. And he also won E3 Harelbeke from a sprint, but that was against Terpstra, Geraint Thomas and Stijn Vandenbergh. Almost anyone would win a sprint against those riders.

And nobody cares for races like California or Tour de Suisse. Those aren't serious races. California is a vacation ride and Tour de Suisse is a second rate prep race for the Tour (first rate being the Dauphiné).

 

[Valv.Piti]

I should rephrase that: I don't think he can win Strade Bianche, but Amstel and Roubaix are winnable races for him. He wouldn't have been able to win Amstel 2017 and Roubaix isn't his race, but obviously he can win them.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Sagan would have definitely lost that sprint against Kwiatkowski in the Amstel Gold Race.

You're quite the oracle, aren't you?

I'm not denying he might have lost it, but we have really been robbed the chance to make that assessment, since he managed to not be in the mix in the finale of neither Strade, E3, GW, Flanders or Roubaix this season. And where were Kwiato and GvA when the going got rough in Tirreno? Nowhere, that's right (okay, Kwiatkowski had a different approach to that stage so we can't really compare his climbing skills to Sagan's). That win from Sagan was the true monster performance of the spring, yet people continue to discredit him.

My guess is that everyone who thinks that Sagan has lost it (which seems to be quite a surprisingly large number of people) may be in for a shocker when he returns and makes a fool of everyone in California, TdS and TdF (which of course is a boring race, where a true racer like Gilbert has nothing to do, I know).

Tirreno-Adriatico is just a prep race. The stages are around 60km shorter than a real classic. They're not raced very hard either, especially when you compare it to classics like Gent-Wevelgem, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Paris-Roubaix and the Amstel Gold Race. When Sagan has to sprint from a small group after a hard, long race he almost always loses the sprint.

His two WC wins were due to very conservative racing until the final few kms (or final km in the case of Doha). That's how most World Championship are ridden lately, so I don't blame him for that. It's up to his rivals to make the race long and hard. If they fail to do that they only have themselves to blame. And his win in the Ronde was from a solo.

His only sprint win in a classic was Gent-Wevelgem last year. And he also won E3 Harelbeke from a sprint, but that was against Terpstra, Geraint Thomas and Stijn Vandenbergh. Almost anyone would win a sprint against those riders.

And nobody cares for races like California or Tour de Suisse. Those aren't serious races. California is a vacation ride and Tour de Suisse is a second rate prep race for the Tour (first rate being the Dauphiné).

Tirreno-Adriatico and Tour de Suisse are big races with rich history, certainly on the level with Gent-Wevelgem and Amstel Gold Race...

 

[frisenfruitig]

Gotta disagree on that one. TA I can somewhat understand but the TdS is nowhere near GW/AGR

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Sagan would have definitely lost that sprint against Kwiatkowski in the Amstel Gold Race.

You're quite the oracle, aren't you?

I'm not denying he might have lost it, but we have really been robbed the chance to make that assessment, since he managed to not be in the mix in the finale of neither Strade, E3, GW, Flanders or Roubaix this season. And where were Kwiato and GvA when the going got rough in Tirreno? Nowhere, that's right (okay, Kwiatkowski had a different approach to that stage so we can't really compare his climbing skills to Sagan's). That win from Sagan was the true monster performance of the spring, yet people continue to discredit him.

My guess is that everyone who thinks that Sagan has lost it (which seems to be quite a surprisingly large number of people) may be in for a shocker when he returns and makes a fool of everyone in California, TdS and TdF (which of course is a boring race, where a true racer like Gilbert has nothing to do, I know).

Tirreno-Adriatico is just a prep race. The stages are around 60km shorter than a real classic. They're not raced very hard either, especially when you compare it to classics like Gent-Wevelgem, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Paris-Roubaix and the Amstel Gold Race. When Sagan has to sprint from a small group after a hard, long race he almost always loses the sprint.

His two WC wins were due to very conservative racing until the final few kms (or final km in the case of Doha). That's how most World Championship are ridden lately, so I don't blame him for that. It's up to his rivals to make the race long and hard. If they fail to do that they only have themselves to blame. And his win in the Ronde was from a solo.

His only sprint win in a classic was Gent-Wevelgem last year. And he also won E3 Harelbeke from a sprint, but that was against Terpstra, Geraint Thomas and Stijn Vandenbergh. Almost anyone would win a sprint against those riders.

And nobody cares for races like California or Tour de Suisse. Those aren't serious races. California is a vacation ride and Tour de Suisse is a second rate prep race for the Tour (first rate being the Dauphiné).

Tirreno-Adriatico and Tour de Suisse are big races with rich history, certainly on the level with Gent-Wevelgem and Amstel Gold Race...

1) Sagan didn't win the GC in T-A, only some stages.
2) Tour de Suisse has an incredibly weak field every year and no one targets it as a main goal. It's way below Gent-Wevelgem and the Amstel Gold Race. Rui Costa wished he could win the AGR three times. Just because it has a rich history doesn't automatically make it a big race today. Just look at what happened to Paris-Tours.

 

[Nirvana]

Re:

I should rephrase that: I don't think he can win Strade Bianche, but Amstel and Roubaix are winnable races for him. He wouldn't have been able to win Amstel 2017 and Roubaix isn't his race, but obviously he can win them.

In my opinion Roubaix it's the hardest of the three for him. If he tried to escape with 77 km to go is because he knows that every year is going to crack in the finale.
Strade Bianche is definetly within his reach if he can go solo before the uphill sprint and in the Amstel with the new easier finale if it's not raced hard he could win sprinting from a group of 30/50 riders.

 

[fayeva77]

plenty of talking about Sagan in GVA thread.
maybe some moderator could move all those posts to Sagan's thread?

 

[Echoes]

Re:

GVA is too heavy for Liege right now.
And it's properly too hard for him.

Like he was too heavy for Rio or San Sebastian?

The Ardennes races are the races that suit him best, especially Amstel Gold. Only he's Flemish and wants to win the Tour of Flanders. Perhaps, now that he's won Paris-Roubaix, he might focus on both Tour of Flanders and Amstel/Liège while skipping Paris-Roubaix now that he's got it. I don't know if it's an aim of his to diversify his palmares the way Phil is attempting to but I'm afraid he would want to defend his title and then really focus on Liège when it's too late at age 33.

He's also not forced to be in such early form like for the Omloop or Kuurne. I agree there's no need for that.

 

[El Pistolero]

 

[Mr.White]

I'm curious what he is going to do at Liege. In top form he could do well, very well. But I think he's fading a little. Maybe he'll try some long range attack, I don't think he has much of a chance if he waits for the final.

As for the current season, he's still on top, but Valverde is closing. I guess if Valverde wins on Sunday he'll overcome him as the best rider of the season so far.

 

[Brullnux]

Greg Van Avermaet 2017:
Paris-Roubaix
Gent-Wevelgem
E3 Harelbeke
Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
UCI World Tour
Tour of Luxembourg (less prestigious I know, but bear with)
2nd Strade Bianche
2nd RVV
2nd Quebec
4th Eneco Tour
Top 10s in Kuurne, Worlds, Montreal, San Sebastian and Plouay

Peter Sagan:
Worlds
Quebec
Kuurne
A tour stage
A few WT stages
2nd Omloop
2nd MSR
3rd Gent Wevelgem
Top 10s in Eneco Tour and Montreal

Who comes third in the Velo d'or? The man with the best classics season wince Canc 2013? Nah, Sagan cos he's funny.