Teams & Riders He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

People are forgetting how 'out there' a winner Óscar Freire was in 1999.

I was just about to post that from 1999 to 2003 we had three comparably very low-profile winners in Freire (the first time), Vainsteins and Astarloa. At least I hadn't heard about Astarloa when he won but at that time I was 11 and could only watch the Tour, so he might have been more well-known to others. Vainsteins too for that matter.

Vainsteins was very-very good at the time.

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=158&year=2000&all=0&current=0

Edit: Freire was sketchy as **** though - that he got selected and then making the final selection

Talking about sketchy, that 1999 podium as the time - not very high profile. :lol:

 

[roundabout]

1999 Zberg was very good

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=60&year=1999&all=0&current=0

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

People are forgetting how 'out there' a winner Óscar Freire was in 1999.

I was just about to post that from 1999 to 2003 we had three comparably very low-profile winners in Freire (the first time), Vainsteins and Astarloa. At least I hadn't heard about Astarloa when he won but at that time I was 11 and could only watch the Tour, so he might have been more well-known to others. Vainsteins too for that matter.

Vainsteins was very-very good at the time.

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=158&year=2000&all=0&current=0

Edit: Freire was sketchy as **** though - that he got selected and then making the final selection

Talking about sketchy, that 1999 podium as the time - not very high profile. :lol:

And then number 5: William Chann McRae. Literally a name I have never heard before in my life.

Edit: Okay, I must have, because he rode the Tour in 2000 and by then I had already begun memorising every year's Tour start list, but still...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Sure Zberg was good, but that looks like his by far best season and then you have Freire from 1999 and Cyril Robin. Yes, I have never heard about him before today.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Vainsteins was fantastic for a short time before injuries and lack of motivation killed him. He was the proto-Sagan (not as good but not far from it at all), just with 2nd places all over instead of so many wins since there were less bunch sprints then than now in the slightly hilly races that Sagan thrives on.

Astarloa was the Ibarguren effect. One season wonder. He won Fleche in April, the Worlds in September where he was - make no mistake - the strongest, he rode everyone off his wheel. Then nothing.

Costa was improving all the time and that Worlds was his peak which wouldn't normally be the case except since that day then he's had nothing but injury and lung illness after injury and lung illness. For example, this season he hasn't yet had a long enough injury free stretch to actually reach his best form. But at least the lung issues seem to finally be gone after 4 years.

Freire was extremely highly rated as a youngster, but spent a lot of his first 2 seasons injured. He went to those worlds because Minguez was one of the few who know how good he was and called him up. Imagine one of the world's strongest national teams calling up a 2nd year pro with 11 previous race days for the season. After his 3rd world title those injuries reoccurred and he wouldn't show up for a Worlds in proper fitness again until 2012, his last professional race. Otherwise with the 21st century's controlled racing and repetitive courses he'd have 5 or 6 world titles by now. Which is where Sagan is heading if he doesn't get injured.

Zberg was brilliant in 98 and especially 99. He was what Michael Matthews is right now, pretty much to a T. God knows what happened after that, he was never the same. Then again a lot of riders decline young

The 99 worlds would probably have been won by Konyshev, but he had a mechanical just as Freire attacked. Konyshev might be cycling's epitome of bad luck

As for McRae....great TT guy, really good, but not one for road races.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Moscon and Poels winning would be bad because they are Sky-bots but Leezer winning would be nice?

Although it would have been hilarious for a moment, it would have been Woods winning, squared, in terms of ridiculousness. Fortunately it didn't happen.

I think he would have been the fitting winner for that WC

 

[roundabout]

Vainsteins finished 5th and 3rd in the World Cup in 2000 and 2001, so he was genuinely among the best 1-day riders in the World at the time even if he did win less than I remembered.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

People are forgetting how 'out there' a winner Óscar Freire was in 1999.

I was just about to post that from 1999 to 2003 we had three comparably very low-profile winners in Freire (the first time), Vainsteins and Astarloa. At least I hadn't heard about Astarloa when he won but at that time I was 11 and could only watch the Tour, so he might have been more well-known to others. Vainsteins too for that matter.

Vainsteins was very-very good at the time.

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=158&year=2000&all=0&current=0

Edit: Freire was sketchy as **** though - that he got selected and then making the final selection

Talking about sketchy, that 1999 podium as the time - not very high profile. :lol:

And then number 5: William Chann McRae. Literally a name I have never heard before in my life.

Chann and Lance went to the same high school in Texas at the same time. He also finished 8th at Worlds the following year and is a former US road champ. I see him around every once in awhile.

As for McRae....great TT guy, really good, but not one for road races.

Well, that's not true.

 

[joe_papp]

Re: Re:

People are forgetting how 'out there' a winner Óscar Freire was in 1999.

I was just about to post that from 1999 to 2003 we had three comparably very low-profile winners in Freire (the first time), Vainsteins and Astarloa. At least I hadn't heard about Astarloa when he won but at that time I was 11 and could only watch the Tour, so he might have been more well-known to others. Vainsteins too for that matter.

Vainsteins was very-very good at the time.

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=158&year=2000&all=0&current=0

Edit: Freire was sketchy as **** though - that he got selected and then making the final selection

Talking about sketchy, that 1999 podium as the time - not very high profile. :lol:

And then number 5: William Chann McRae. Literally a name I have never heard before in my life.

Edit: Okay, I must have, because he rode the Tour in 2000 and by then I had already begun memorising every year's Tour start list, but still...

Chan McRae was a solid rider, a few years older than me, a contemporary of Lance's, and was both amateur and professional US national champion at different times in his career iirc. No Valverde though! lol

Edit: he's a cop now, too, iirc.

 

[GuyIncognito]

As for McRae....great TT guy, really good, but not one for road races.

Well, that's not true.

He was great at setting tempo, but not a good enough climber to drop others to win, too slow to win sprints and didn't have the nose for breakaways.
He got placings, but that's about it. AFAIK the only road race he ever won as a pro was that infamous stage in germany when everyone fell all over each other at the last corner but him

I'm not saying he's a bad rider, I said quite the opposite. Great TT guy, the right chracteristics to be a valuable domestique in road races, but he wasn't a guy to take any wins in them.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

As for McRae....great TT guy, really good, but not one for road races.

Well, that's not true.

He was great at setting tempo, but not a good enough climber to drop others to win, too slow to win sprints and didn't have the nose for breakaways.
He got placings, but that's about it. AFAIK the only road race he ever won as a pro was that infamous stage in germany when everyone fell all over each other at the last corner but him

I'm not saying he's a bad rider, I said quite the opposite. Great TT guy, the right chracteristics to be a valuable domestique in road races, but he wasn't a guy to take any wins in them.

He didn't win too much, TT or road, but he had several high placings. I certainly don't consider him a TT specialist. Biggest win would have been the US road title, I guess.

 

[GuyIncognito]

He was US road champion, but does that count as a race win considering he didn't win the race?

Until not that long ago - and it was the case that year - there was no proper one off race for the national US title. At one of the UCI races, in Philadelphia, race teams and riders from all over the road would show up and race like any other race. And the first american across the line would be declared US champion for the year. He didn't actually win the race, he was just first american.

Anyway, giving it a quick look through a few sites and it seems that he had 2 road wins, the Niedersachsen stage I mentioned above and something called the Corestats Invitational Lancaster Classic, assuming that was a road race and not a TT. If so, shockingly he never won a pro TT, that I can find. Can't think of any guys as good as him that applies to.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

He was US road champion, but does that count as a race win considering he didn't win the race?

Until not that long ago - and it was the case that year - there was no proper one off race for the national US title. At one of the UCI races, in Philadelphia, race teams and riders from all over the road would show up and race like any other race. And the first american across the line would be declared US champion for the year. He didn't actually win the race, he was just first american.

Anyway, giving it a quick look through a few sites and it seems that he had 2 road wins, the Niedersachsen stage I mentioned above and something called the Corestats Invitational Lancaster Classic, assuming that was a road race and not a TT. If so, shockingly he never won a pro TT, that I can find. Can't think of any guys as good as him that applies to.

True about past US Nationals. I'd totally forgotten about that. Same is still currently true for most of our State Championships. Lancaster was a rr. He apparently also won a road race in Belgium, Erembodegem-Terjoden, but I'm not familiar with that one. 5th in Milano Torino, 13th in Lombardia, 5th in Romandie, 6th in Milano-Torino, top 20s in the Giro and Vuelta, nothing earth-shattering but he certainly wasn't pack fodder, not that you ever implied that.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

Freire was extremely highly rated as a youngster, but spent a lot of his first 2 seasons injured. He went to those worlds because Minguez was one of the few who know how good he was and called him up. Imagine one of the world's strongest national teams calling up a 2nd year pro with 11 previous race days for the season. After his 3rd world title those injuries reoccurred and he wouldn't show up for a Worlds in proper fitness again until 2012, his last professional race. Otherwise with the 21st century's controlled racing and repetitive courses he'd have 5 or 6 world titles by now. Which is where Sagan is heading if he doesn't get injured.

Freire was helped by the fact you had teams of up to 12 in those days as well, and with a tough Vuelta having just finished Minguez was also able to make the argument that fresh legs would be beneficial for a domestique given how late the Worlds were that year (mid October). He was highly rated, but because he'd been injured and not raced that much he was a bit of an unknown quantity even in that group of 9, where everybody's eyes were primarily on Casagrande, on home roads, and Vandenbroucke after his Vuelta performances. That enabled Freire to pull a fast one when Casagrande swung right to try to get people off his wheel, then back left again to try to force somebody to come through; Freire stayed right and not so much attacked but didn't ease or soft-pedal like everybody else was doing, then opened up his sprint once the others noticed he'd got a bit of a gap to maintain it.

 

[joe_papp]

Re: Re:

Freire was extremely highly rated as a youngster, but spent a lot of his first 2 seasons injured. He went to those worlds because Minguez was one of the few who know how good he was and called him up. Imagine one of the world's strongest national teams calling up a 2nd year pro with 11 previous race days for the season. After his 3rd world title those injuries reoccurred and he wouldn't show up for a Worlds in proper fitness again until 2012, his last professional race. Otherwise with the 21st century's controlled racing and repetitive courses he'd have 5 or 6 world titles by now. Which is where Sagan is heading if he doesn't get injured.

Freire was helped by the fact you had teams of up to 12 in those days as well, and with a tough Vuelta having just finished Minguez was also able to make the argument that fresh legs would be beneficial for a domestique given how late the Worlds were that year (mid October). He was highly rated, but because he'd been injured and not raced that much he was a bit of an unknown quantity even in that group of 9, where everybody's eyes were primarily on Casagrande, on home roads, and Vandenbroucke after his Vuelta performances. That enabled Freire to pull a fast one when Casagrande swung right to try to get people off his wheel, then back left again to try to force somebody to come through; Freire stayed right and not so much attacked but didn't ease or soft-pedal like everybody else was doing, then opened up his sprint once the others noticed he'd got a bit of a gap to maintain it.

Not exactly how it played out! I only know because I was captivated by your description and decided to rewatch the finale lol.

Here it is on YouTube starting w/ 1km to go: https://youtu.be/kGtQeEX3PIk?t=1h30m43s

(Casagrande had already been off the front and brought back, and then Freire was off the front but mainly sitting on Camenzind until Konyshev pulls the rest back up to them, just before the red kite; time stamp should be t=1h30m43s for the moment the group comes back together.)

EDIT: I love the reaction of the commentators btw when they realize Freire is clearly going to win w/ such a cheeky move. Literally lol'ing :lol:

 

[Koronin]

Here are some pictures from the festivities in Murcia today. Basically they had a huge celebration for Alejandro. Starting with having him in a convertible with a bunch of people from the area riding bikes behind him almost as a parade. Then a celebration downtown.

 

[Koronin]

One more picture from the celebration. This one is Alejandro with his 4 kids and wife.

 

[joe_papp]

Re:

Here are some pictures from the festivities in Murcia today. Basically they had a huge celebration for Alejandro. Starting with having him in a convertible with a bunch of people from the area riding bikes behind him almost as a parade. Then a celebration downtown.

So cute! I love that his wife is driving him like he's homecoming queen lol.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Here are some pictures from the festivities in Murcia today. Basically they had a huge celebration for Alejandro. Starting with having him in a convertible with a bunch of people from the area riding bikes behind him almost as a parade. Then a celebration downtown.

So cute! I love that his wife is driving him like he's homecoming queen lol.

LOL, I think it's the best they could manage on short notice for a parade.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

Here are some pictures from the festivities in Murcia today. Basically they had a huge celebration for Alejandro. Starting with having him in a convertible with a bunch of people from the area riding bikes behind him almost as a parade. Then a celebration downtown.

So cute! I love that his wife is driving him like he's homecoming queen lol.

LOL, I think it's the best they could manage on short notice for a parade.

Short notice? They've had a year to plan it!

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Re:

But guys, come on, Woods would be the better 'story'! You gotta remember he speaks english and was very good at running a few years back! Please, Valverde wearing the jersey instead of a one trick without any palmarés is most definitely better for cycling. I hate mediocre world champions, thankfully we havent seen too many lately.

What is all this crap about it being something to do with speaking English? I think the reason people are not too happy about him winning the stripes is because of his past and nothing to do with the language or whichever country he is from. Also, it doesn't matter who wins the world championships, they would have deserved it. Yes, to some it looks better if a high profile rider wins it, but at the end of the day the worlds is just another one day race like the rest. If someone's favourite didn't win PR or Flanders or whatever, the winner would have been deserving because he beat the rest on the day and not because he's the best in the world and whatever rider won it would wear it with pride regardless of his/her palmares.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re: Re:

But guys, come on, Woods would be the better 'story'! You gotta remember he speaks english and was very good at running a few years back! Please, Valverde wearing the jersey instead of a one trick without any palmarés is most definitely better for cycling. I hate mediocre world champions, thankfully we havent seen too many lately.

What is all this crap about it being something to do with speaking English?

Whooosh

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

That's putting it mildly. It's the worst of the cycling databases. At least of the 8 or so I'm aware of.
And that's not even getting into the owners' disgusting behavior towards other people.

I can't find any sources that list Poblet's wins, only a wins total. I see different numbers, but all well above 200. 262 is the highest I've seen given.

In any case, it's impossible to compare. On one hand any stage race had way more stages in the past than they do now. But now a far far higher percentage of races are bunch sprints so the fastest sprinters in the world get a huge number of wins that they wouldn't get before the 90s.

Is it really that bad? I think it's very useful at least for current races.

But yeah, Mr van der Zwan doesn't strike me as a sympathetic fellow in the slightest, either.

Since a couple of years ago i follw PCS on twitter and seems that they don't give a f**k about older races, i still remember when one user asked about the fact that even for monuments like Lombardia they only have the top three in older editions and they asked that are more than enough and their all time ranking count only top three so they don't need more. And it's not the only odd idea they have.

Anyway regarding Perurena i don't think Valverde is close to him as wins numeber, in wikipedia list of wins on his page i counted more than 150 races and probably the real number is even higher.

 

[Moviestar]

According to Garcia-Acosta, Valverde might ride Milan-Torino before Lombardia. Afterwards he might also ride in Guanxi to possibly secure the first place in the UCI rankings.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

According to Garcia-Acosta, Valverde might ride Milan-Torino before Lombardia. Afterwards he might also ride in Guanxi to possibly secure the first place in the UCI rankings.

I hoped he'd race Emilia, but Milan-Turin isnt bad either before Lombardia, definitely. I actually didnt think he would race any of the races before Lombardia. Its pretty close to Lombardia tho, but he knows what he is doing and as he has shown many times that his recovery between races is pretty amazing.

Please not China. I hate, hate, hate, hate races in the Middle East and Asia - should just rest up after this tough season.