Hot racing coming up in Australia

[42x16ss]

Re:

Did Howson go grey during the winter?

It looks like he either bleached his hair or spent the offseason swimming at the beach.

 

[claude cat]

Travis McCabe (United Healthcare) wins stage 3 from Docker and Howard.
I believe there was a big crash inside the final 3kms and the GC times might be neutralized.

 

[claude cat]

Sky reporting Van Poppel crashed.
There may have been 2 crashes - one at the 5km to go mark and one inside the final 3km.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Liggett saying Froome slowed down for Howson?

He did indeed say that.

It didn't look like there was any slowing down going on from the highlights by Sky or anyone else. Far from it? When is Froome meant to have slowed? Are the guys in the Froome group who are ahead of Froome on GC supposed to have slowed too? It looked like entertainingly ruthless racing from Sky and some of the smaller local teams.

And in fact Froome says there was no waiting, that trying to take time on the climb had been the plan from the start but the racing was on by the time anyone knew Howson had punctured. Liggett should not be listened to.

Yes it was race on and just an unfortunate incident for Howson, props to him and Orica for getting back to the Froome group. I didn't expect the bunch to sit up on the final climb, especially Froome who would have gone to Australia again for decent race km's in his legs and to have a dig like last season, not to ride piano up the final climb.

Looking at the Orica backstage pass it seems Chaves spilled his guts for the team. Of course it was a team effort, but I think Chaves did a lot.

 

[claude cat]

None of the GC riders involved in the 5km to go mark. So GC remains unchanged from yesterday on the whole.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Looking at the Orica backstage pass it seems Chaves spilled his guts for the team. Of course it was a team effort, but I think Chaves did a lot.

Whether bringing Chaves out to AUS for the start of the season will prove a good move in the context of the entire season will only be known in 8-9 months time. If it proves a net negative with regards to his major goals, then at least they've made this mistake at the beginning of this contract and will know not to repeat it

What he has, most certainly, done here was to "bank" a significant sum of goodwill from the rest of the team come his major races. Granted, they already know how much he appreciates THEIR sacrifices for him but here they have seen him return the favour in order that one of them can taste victory.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Looking at the Orica backstage pass it seems Chaves spilled his guts for the team. Of course it was a team effort, but I think Chaves did a lot.

Whether bringing Chaves out to AUS for the start of the season will prove a good move in the context of the entire season will only be known in 8-9 months time. If it proves a net negative with regards to his major goals, then at least they've made this mistake at the beginning of this contract and will know not to repeat it

What he has, most certainly, done here was to "bank" a significant sum of goodwill from the rest of the team come his major races. Granted, they already know how much he appreciates THEIR sacrifices for him but here they have seen him return the favour in order that one of them can taste victory.

With the TDU becoming a hillier race more suited to GC contenders, expect one of the Yates boys to ride the TDU in 2018 - Anyway Orica should have all their riders at a training camp in Australia, for the month of January - It's a no brainer.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

With the TDU becoming a hillier race more suited to GC contenders, expect one of the Yates boys to ride the TDU in 2018 - Anyway Orica should have all their riders at a training camp in Australia, for the month of January - It's a no brainer.

In recent years the riders that don't race in Australia usually go to a training camp in South Africa before the start of the European season.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

Looking at the Orica backstage pass it seems Chaves spilled his guts for the team. Of course it was a team effort, but I think Chaves did a lot.

Whether bringing Chaves out to AUS for the start of the season will prove a good move in the context of the entire season will only be known in 8-9 months time. If it proves a net negative with regards to his major goals, then at least they've made this mistake at the beginning of this contract and will know not to repeat it

What he has, most certainly, done here was to "bank" a significant sum of goodwill from the rest of the team come his major races. Granted, they already know how much he appreciates THEIR sacrifices for him but here they have seen him return the favour in order that one of them can taste victory.

Yes Chavez played a massive part in getting Howson back to the front, it seems he was paying him back after Howson buried himself for Chavez at the Vuelta last season so he could podium. It looks pretty sure that wherever Chavez rides this year we will see Howson too, they get on really well from what we've seen.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

With the TDU becoming a hillier race more suited to GC contenders, expect one of the Yates boys to ride the TDU in 2018 - Anyway Orica should have all their riders at a training camp in Australia, for the month of January - It's a no brainer.

In recent years the riders that don't race in Australia usually go to a training camp in South Africa before the start of the European season.

There is some type of training camp happening, though riders are all over the place - 15 cyclists are currently riding in races, Verona is in South Africa, Kreuziger is training in Spain, believe Ewan is in Monaco - Plus Orica ride again in Spain Feb 11 and 12 and do the Tour of Dubai Feb 23-26 and of course Omloop Het on Feb 25. So it will be a mix n match camp.

It's been a good highlights package of the Herald Sun Tour - Kudos to the producers - My guess is Orica will put Chaves in the break ( at least on the circuits ) and have Howson follow Froome - And they must not underestimate the young Australians.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Windy AF today

 

[claude cat]

Stannard wins the final stage out of the remains of the break. Only just got it as he slowed up to do up his jersey.
Howson finishes with all the other GC riders to take out the overall.

 

[claude cat]

Final stage results:

1. 6 Ian STANNARD (SKY) GBR
2. 54 Aaron GATE (ABS) NZL
3. 27 Taco VAN DER HOORN (RNL)
4. 81 Benjamin HILL (ATG) AUS
5. 93 Robbie HUCKER (IWS) AUS
6. 67 Alistair SLATER (JLT) GBR
7. 147 Jason CHRISTIE (NZL) NZL
8. 124 Daniel FITTER (NIS) AUS
9. 105 Cyrus MONK (DPV) AUS
10. 45 Travis MCCABE (UHC) USA
11. 94 Cameron BAYLY (IWS) AUS
12. 131 Cameron MEYER (AUS) AUS
13. 122 Dylan SUNDERLAND (NIS) AUS
14. 134 Jai HINDLEY (AUS) AUS
15. 133 Lucas HAMILTON (AUS) AUS
16. 142 James ORAM (NZL) NZL
17. 41 Janier Alexis ACEVEDO CALLE (UHC) COL
18. 97 Timothy ROE (IWS) AUS
19. 21 Tim ARIESEN (RNL) NED
20. 13 Damien HOWSON (ORS) AUS

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Looking at the Orica backstage pass it seems Chaves spilled his guts for the team. Of course it was a team effort, but I think Chaves did a lot.

Whether bringing Chaves out to AUS for the start of the season will prove a good move in the context of the entire season will only be known in 8-9 months time. If it proves a net negative with regards to his major goals, then at least they've made this mistake at the beginning of this contract and will know not to repeat it

What he has, most certainly, done here was to "bank" a significant sum of goodwill from the rest of the team come his major races. Granted, they already know how much he appreciates THEIR sacrifices for him but here they have seen him return the favour in order that one of them can taste victory.

The whole team worked well for Howson and it's only natural that Chavez will appear more on the climbs. It was all hands on deck when Howson had a mechanical and Chavez obviously appreciates Howson's efforts for him in previous races. This a was a short race with some short stages as well and I don't think the work that Chavez did will have any effect on his season. He will arrive in Europe in good shape and riders that have an early start to the season often have a break before the GT they decide to ride. I don't think Matt White would have risked Chaves with bigger races coming up later. Chaves may not have trained much before these races anyway and some riders prefer racing to get them fit and have much quieter off seasons than others. Enjoyed the Sun Tour this year probably more than the TDU. Porte seems to be further along in his prep than Chaves and will probably have to ease off before the Tour. Most riders do the TDS or Dauphine before the Tour and Porte may ride one of them more for training than for a result but Porte should forget the TDU next year and maybe try what Cadel did with less racing miles and a later start but if he performs well in the Tour well he might just back up again at the TDU. If something works well most people stick to their usual schedule. Be interesting to see if Howson gets more opportunities further down the track. He probably will.

 

[yaco]

Howson's climbing skills are on an upward trajectory but he still has a way to go for European one week stage races - Of course his TT skills will help - Howson continues to improve and he may be a GC option for the 2018 TDU - There are 4 or 5 genuine young Aussie WT riders from the Herald Sun - Will be interesting to see how many Orica get on their books.

 

[yaco]

Actually Orica will now have a 3 week camp in South Africa - It will be mix and match with riders riding in Spain on Feb 11/12, Abu Dhabi Feb 23-26, Impey in South Africa preparing for their Nationals on the 12th, and Chavez back to Columbia for their Nationals on the 19th.

 

[Alexandre B.]

The first time I heard of Howson he was wearing the young jersey at Romandie versus the likes of Latour, Formolo, Kudus or Meintjes.

Latour eventually beat him but he was 23rd on queen stage, and third young of the stage after Latour and Kudus.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Looking at the Orica backstage pass it seems Chaves spilled his guts for the team. Of course it was a team effort, but I think Chaves did a lot.

Whether bringing Chaves out to AUS for the start of the season will prove a good move in the context of the entire season will only be known in 8-9 months time. If it proves a net negative with regards to his major goals, then at least they've made this mistake at the beginning of this contract and will know not to repeat it

What he has, most certainly, done here was to "bank" a significant sum of goodwill from the rest of the team come his major races. Granted, they already know how much he appreciates THEIR sacrifices for him but here they have seen him return the favour in order that one of them can taste victory.

The whole team worked well for Howson and it's only natural that Chavez will appear more on the climbs. It was all hands on deck when Howson had a mechanical and Chavez obviously appreciates Howson's efforts for him in previous races. This a was a short race with some short stages as well and I don't think the work that Chavez did will have any effect on his season. He will arrive in Europe in good shape and riders that have an early start to the season often have a break before the GT they decide to ride. I don't think Matt White would have risked Chaves with bigger races coming up later. Chaves may not have trained much before these races anyway and some riders prefer racing to get them fit and have much quieter off seasons than others. Enjoyed the Sun Tour this year probably more than the TDU. Porte seems to be further along in his prep than Chaves and will probably have to ease off before the Tour. Most riders do the TDS or Dauphine before the Tour and Porte may ride one of them more for training than for a result but Porte should forget the TDU next year and maybe try what Cadel did with less racing miles and a later start but if he performs well in the Tour well he might just back up again at the TDU. If something works well most people stick to their usual schedule. Be interesting to see if Howson gets more opportunities further down the track. He probably will.

Last year's race schedule/approach for Chaves netted 2 GT podiums plus 1 monument so that is quite a steep benchmark to match; therein lies the gist of my comment regarding the wisdom (or potential lack thereof) in changing what payed such dividends in 2016.

We'll only know whether it was wise or not post Vuelta/Lombardie but if its proven a net negative then they know not to repeat it for the remaining 2 years of his contract ...... and think twice about dragging either of the Yates for a similar outing.

I will fully agree that he was at a distinctly different stage of preparation to Porte at TDU but taken as a whole, his indicators have looked positive. Whilst his top end climbing isn't yet there, his "engine" has continued to develop as evidenced by his grunt work for Howson.

Further opportunities for Howson ??? Hhmm, other than perhaps being given the nod for other 2nd level one-weekers; I'm struggling to see too many ...... and even those will be limited due to him being first lieutenant for the prime GC men at either the GTs or lead-in one-weekers.

DOES he actually have what it takes to bridge from being a potentially top-drawer "super dom" to being a GC man in his own right ?? Colour me sceptical. He climbs very well but against the very best day in/day out ?? He's a good TTer (and had an excellent junior pedigree in this discipline) but I'm not sure he's necessarily elite ..... and it will probably be de-emphasised in favour of further development as a climber.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Looking at the Orica backstage pass it seems Chaves spilled his guts for the team. Of course it was a team effort, but I think Chaves did a lot.

Whether bringing Chaves out to AUS for the start of the season will prove a good move in the context of the entire season will only be known in 8-9 months time. If it proves a net negative with regards to his major goals, then at least they've made this mistake at the beginning of this contract and will know not to repeat it

What he has, most certainly, done here was to "bank" a significant sum of goodwill from the rest of the team come his major races. Granted, they already know how much he appreciates THEIR sacrifices for him but here they have seen him return the favour in order that one of them can taste victory.

The whole team worked well for Howson and it's only natural that Chavez will appear more on the climbs. It was all hands on deck when Howson had a mechanical and Chavez obviously appreciates Howson's efforts for him in previous races. This a was a short race with some short stages as well and I don't think the work that Chavez did will have any effect on his season. He will arrive in Europe in good shape and riders that have an early start to the season often have a break before the GT they decide to ride. I don't think Matt White would have risked Chaves with bigger races coming up later. Chaves may not have trained much before these races anyway and some riders prefer racing to get them fit and have much quieter off seasons than others. Enjoyed the Sun Tour this year probably more than the TDU. Porte seems to be further along in his prep than Chaves and will probably have to ease off before the Tour. Most riders do the TDS or Dauphine before the Tour and Porte may ride one of them more for training than for a result but Porte should forget the TDU next year and maybe try what Cadel did with less racing miles and a later start but if he performs well in the Tour well he might just back up again at the TDU. If something works well most people stick to their usual schedule. Be interesting to see if Howson gets more opportunities further down the track. He probably will.

Last year's race schedule/approach for Chaves netted 2 GT podiums plus 1 monument so that is quite a steep benchmark to match; therein lies the gist of my comment regarding the wisdom (or potential lack thereof) in changing what payed such dividends in 2016.

We'll only know whether it was wise or not post Vuelta/Lombardie but if its proven a net negative then they know not to repeat it for the remaining 2 years of his contract ...... and think twice about dragging either of the Yates for a similar outing.

I will fully agree that he was at a distinctly different stage of preparation to Porte at TDU but taken as a whole, his indicators have looked positive. Whilst his top end climbing isn't yet there, his "engine" has continued to develop as evidenced by his grunt work for Howson.

Further opportunities for Howson ??? Hhmm, other than perhaps being given the nod for other 2nd level one-weekers; I'm struggling to see too many ...... and even those will be limited due to him being first lieutenant for the prime GC men at either the GTs or lead-in one-weekers.

DOES he actually have what it takes to bridge from being a potentially top-drawer "super dom" to being a GC man in his own right ?? Colour me sceptical. He climbs very well but against the very best day in/day out ?? He's a good TTer (and had an excellent junior pedigree in this discipline) but I'm not sure he's necessarily elite ..... and it will probably be de-emphasised in favour of further development as a climber.

Spot on with your post about Howson, though his climbing is improving each year, and he still has more to give. TDU GC is a major priority for Orica, so with the change in parcours, expect one of the Yates to be there in 2018. POssibly a Haig or Power will be ready in 2019.

There is about 5 young Australian riders in the Herald Sun Tour that scream WT level - Which one's will Orica sign ?

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Looking at the Orica backstage pass it seems Chaves spilled his guts for the team. Of course it was a team effort, but I think Chaves did a lot.

Whether bringing Chaves out to AUS for the start of the season will prove a good move in the context of the entire season will only be known in 8-9 months time. If it proves a net negative with regards to his major goals, then at least they've made this mistake at the beginning of this contract and will know not to repeat it

What he has, most certainly, done here was to "bank" a significant sum of goodwill from the rest of the team come his major races. Granted, they already know how much he appreciates THEIR sacrifices for him but here they have seen him return the favour in order that one of them can taste victory.

The whole team worked well for Howson and it's only natural that Chavez will appear more on the climbs. It was all hands on deck when Howson had a mechanical and Chavez obviously appreciates Howson's efforts for him in previous races. This a was a short race with some short stages as well and I don't think the work that Chavez did will have any effect on his season. He will arrive in Europe in good shape and riders that have an early start to the season often have a break before the GT they decide to ride. I don't think Matt White would have risked Chaves with bigger races coming up later. Chaves may not have trained much before these races anyway and some riders prefer racing to get them fit and have much quieter off seasons than others. Enjoyed the Sun Tour this year probably more than the TDU. Porte seems to be further along in his prep than Chaves and will probably have to ease off before the Tour. Most riders do the TDS or Dauphine before the Tour and Porte may ride one of them more for training than for a result but Porte should forget the TDU next year and maybe try what Cadel did with less racing miles and a later start but if he performs well in the Tour well he might just back up again at the TDU. If something works well most people stick to their usual schedule. Be interesting to see if Howson gets more opportunities further down the track. He probably will.

Last year's race schedule/approach for Chaves netted 2 GT podiums plus 1 monument so that is quite a steep benchmark to match; therein lies the gist of my comment regarding the wisdom (or potential lack thereof) in changing what payed such dividends in 2016.

We'll only know whether it was wise or not post Vuelta/Lombardie but if its proven a net negative then they know not to repeat it for the remaining 2 years of his contract ...... and think twice about dragging either of the Yates for a similar outing.

I will fully agree that he was at a distinctly different stage of preparation to Porte at TDU but taken as a whole, his indicators have looked positive. Whilst his top end climbing isn't yet there, his "engine" has continued to develop as evidenced by his grunt work for Howson.

Further opportunities for Howson ??? Hhmm, other than perhaps being given the nod for other 2nd level one-weekers; I'm struggling to see too many ...... and even those will be limited due to him being first lieutenant for the prime GC men at either the GTs or lead-in one-weekers.

DOES he actually have what it takes to bridge from being a potentially top-drawer "super dom" to being a GC man in his own right ?? Colour me sceptical. He climbs very well but against the very best day in/day out ?? He's a good TTer (and had an excellent junior pedigree in this discipline) but I'm not sure he's necessarily elite ..... and it will probably be de-emphasised in favour of further development as a climber.

Howson is only 23 and who knows in two years time where the Yates bros and Chaves will be riding if they keep improving. The team does not have the budget of Sky or BMC type teams. I think Howson can develop it's just a matter of how much and of course there are a few other Australian riders that look promising as well. Gerrans will retire soon, Matthews has already moved on so I think some of the younger riders will get chances as the team changes personnel. Good junior form does not always indicate future stardom. Bobridge and the Meyer brothers while getting some good results never made it to the elite level like Gerrans who was actually a late starter to the road, even though they were tipped for big futures. Bobridge was unfortunate with his illness as well which did hurt his career. But not all track converts make it on the road. But most Australian riders have some background on the track and always did, Porte and Evans were notable exceptions. When Gerrans was stage hunting and getting in breaks as a young pro if anyone had said to me that one day he would win MSR and Liege I would have laughed. I think it's a tricky thing trying to map the future of young talents.

 

[dirkprovin]

Sorry, Yaco, but I categorically DISAGREE with you with regards to dragging one of the Yates twins out to race in AUS. It may/may not prove a smart move in the context of Chaves' overall season but there are, again, different circumstances for different riders.

Firstly, Chaves has the far higher fan profile in AUS than either Yates so there is far less of the PR argument. Secondly, Chaves seemed to be willing to make the trip/race out here but can the same be said for either of the Yates ? Thirdly, whilst the nature of the TDU has evolved; there's only so much they can do with regards to parcours and it will always be more a puncheur's race than one for the specialist climbers.

IF both the Yates have 2017s with at least similar success to 2016, WHY change what has been working ? Yes, TDU success is important but probably far less so than in the first couple of years. The team trajectory has changed and whilst its nice to pick up a nice swag of WT points to start the year .... its far from the be all & end all.

Do agree that there were at least 3 young AUS riders high up in the HST GC who clearly look WT prospects. The question is whether all or some make the jump for next season or will at least one wait another year; Hindley & Hamilton both 21/Storer 20. ORS will have at least 2 retirements at the end of this year and maybe another couple of departures so there should be scope for at least one but I can only see them picking up 2 at most.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Following discussion of the Aussie road nats in the GreenEdge thread, it will be interesting to see how strong a team Sunweb bring.
Potentially a stronger team than OricaScott.
EF Drapac should be well represented too.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Following discussion of the Aussie road nats in the GreenEdge thread, it will be interesting to see how strong a team Sunweb bring.
Potentially a stronger team than OricaScott.
EF Drapac should be well represented too.

Bora will probably have a solid team based around McCarthy as well, Sagan is confirmed for the second year running. I wouldn't be surprised if Valverde returns as well to get his legs back like he did after his suspension.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Following discussion of the Aussie road nats in the GreenEdge thread, it will be interesting to see how strong a team Sunweb bring.
Potentially a stronger team than OricaScott.
EF Drapac should be well represented too.[/quot

Strong teams mean little if Porte is on song. Possibly Sunweb could try a Sam Oomen type, though I doubt EF will bring Woods. Sky will probably try with Sergio Henao who is a definite factor for GC.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I meant the Nationals rather than TDU though