How dirty is SaxoBank-Tinkoff?

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May 25, 2011
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I don't think you will be able to convince a hater to change his preprogrammed opinions but nice try.

Dear Wiggo said:
Nope, don't have to try at all to counter your claims. Candy from a baby in fact.



Bayern-Rundfahrt is a race. He won it. That you can't accept it's a race is immaterial to the cold, hard, fact that it is in fact a race, and that he won it.



They are certainly at the forefront of not testing positive.



So I have to guess your definition of race is anything that isn't GC-related, but when it comes to my argument, you lump in a whole "Dear Wiggo is saying TS are immune from suspicion" based on evidence of Rogers having twice as many CQ points with Sky as he does with Tinkov?

Goodness. The irony is delicious.

Here, for your edification is how I feel: the top 5 teams on CQ are pretty much doping as well as each other this year and most of last.

They are not suspicious, they are all guilty.



Rogers scored more points. Points are what a dom trades for salary. Points and usefulness beyond being a good workhorse. Noone is hiring Rogers to win races. Noone. They hire him to be a road captain and a good domestique. And to get points. And his last 2 years at Tinkov have so far netted him 50% of his last 2 years at Sky points.

Further more, he only won a stage at the Tour because the team had no GC leader. Otherwise he would be emptying himself for his team leader.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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roundabout said:
Yes, let's use a season where he was cleared to ride in late April as a comparison.

Brilliant job.
If you're referring to me or my recent posts, it's the last 2 years at Sky vs the last 2 years at Tinkov.

Not one season.

If anything the prolonged break in 2014 means he's fresher and performing better at Giro.

YMMV.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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djpbaltimore said:
As noted above, I did not have the facts correct, so I amended my original post. My apologies to you as well Dear Wiggo. I also have deleted the first sentences of my response because it was more inflammatory than necessary.
Understood and apology accepted. I'm guilty of similar responses and it's not always clear when someone disagrees with or offers a counterpoint how far that goes.


djpbaltimore said:
Understood. I think we are mostly in agreement about doping in the sport and just arguing at the margins. Rogers' was in limbo for the early part of the season so I think his CQ points in 2014 are not completely indicative of the season he has had, but YMMV.
Sure. Speculation as to whether he would generate more points earlier in the season, but then be more tired come Giro, etc, is all too subjective to predict reliably.

He did have a cracker of a year in 2012 though ;)
 
Dear Wiggo said:
If you're referring to me or my recent posts, it's the last 2 years at Sky vs the last 2 years at Tinkov.

Not one season.

If anything the prolonged break in 2014 means he's fresher and performing better at Giro.

YMMV.
Okay, last 2 years at Sky, or alternatively only 2 years at Sky.

2011 - sick, mono or something like that, returned only in August, I think only 100something CQ points that year

2012 - full genius, but also helped by very favorable Dauphine and Romandie routes

Current team

2013 - "normal"

2014 - top-20 in the Giro and 2 stage wins with only 1 racing day before.

Not normal.
 
Mar 9, 2013
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One thing for sure such a a contrast of hate on here about this team this year compared to Sky in the past. Majka has been fairly disgusting this year yet was never an outrage like Richie Porte. I honesltly think Majka would have got 2nd in the TDF he was that strong. Same with Rogers funny how he was meant to get worst when he left Sky. I know it is mainly stages and not GC but you have too think with how strong Contador has came back they have gained big time in the arms race but cyclingnews clinic does not suprise me it is basically "we hate Froome section".
 
TANK91 said:
One thing for sure such a a contrast of hate on here about this team this year compared to Sky in the past. Majka has been fairly disgusting this year yet was never an outrage like Richie Porte. I honesltly think Majka would have got 2nd in the TDF he was that strong. Same with Rogers funny how he was meant to get worst when he left Sky. I know it is mainly stages and not GC but you have too think with how strong Contador has came back they have gained big time in the arms race but cyclingnews clinic does not suprise me it is basically "we hate Froome section".
This explains your problem.
http://media0.giphy.com/media/HJTBvT7cTQqFq/200_s.gif
 
Jun 19, 2009
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TANK91 said:
One thing for sure such a a contrast of hate on here about this team this year compared to Sky in the past. Majka has been fairly disgusting this year yet was never an outrage like Richie Porte. I honesltly think Majka would have got 2nd in the TDF he was that strong. Same with Rogers funny how he was meant to get worst when he left Sky. I know it is mainly stages and not GC but you have too think with how strong Contador has came back they have gained big time in the arms race but cyclingnews clinic does not suprise me it is basically "we hate Froome section".
The better rider and program won.
 
I think they and Contador win the award for most suspicious/ridiculous team/rider of the year. There was some competition, but in the end the winners were clear. Let's see if they will continue full genius next year as well.
 
Sep 3, 2012
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Netserk said:
I think they and Contador win the award for most suspicious/ridiculous team/rider of the year. There was some competition, but in the end the winners were clear. Let's see if they will continue full genius next year as well.
I can't see how they won't I mean to beat Froome/Sky in the Tour is the seasons top goal this year and next. Man it's still a shame we didn't get to see this July, as with Vincenso's lead it would've been fun viewing. Next season will be a full on program for July.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Netserk said:
I think they and Contador win the award for most suspicious/ridiculous team/rider of the year. There was some competition, but in the end the winners were clear. Let's see if they will continue full genius next year as well.
strictly performance-wise, yes.
otherwise, most ridiculous/suspicious was Sky, with some distance.
the Walsh books, the massive rider fall-out, inhaler-gate, the zorzoli TUE, the Henao-case, Wiggins, the JTL case, Michelle, etc. Way too much going on there.
Riis and Tinkoff otoh have somehow managed to keep things relatively quiet.
I do think you can dope more effectively and prosperously in a quiet environment.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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sniper said:
strictly performance-wise, yes.
otherwise, most ridiculous/suspicious was Sky, with some distance.
the Walsh books, the massive rider fall-out, inhaler-gate, the zorzoli TUE, the Henao-case, Wiggins, the JTL case, Michelle, etc. Way too much going on there.
Riis and Tinkoff otoh have somehow managed to keep things relatively quiet.
I do think you can dope more effectively and prosperously in a quiet environment.
i luv cound, i miss cound
 
May 26, 2010
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the sceptic said:
this is hillarious. Tinkoff reuniting the band.

Now they just need Walsh to write some books.
I can see Sky being finished at the end of 2015 and yep Oleg will hire that PR genius Walsh to write the new clean chapter of pro cycling.........
 

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