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How do Lowlanders learn to climb? (Official Mollema/Ten Dam/Belkin thread)

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Mar 9, 2013
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I was shocked by Kelderman i must be honest i like the guy but it is unny when we hear all the stuff about CF and hardly anything against AC and WK.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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TANK91 said:
I was shocked by Kelderman i must be honest i like the guy but it is unny when we hear all the stuff about CF and hardly anything against AC and WK.
3 different cases: Contador and Froome we all know about their past and we all know that Contador has been suspended for doping in 2012.
Kelderman is a young guy, very strong since his junior years, with no really suspect performance until now. Of course yesterday's perf was surprisingly high especially for a guy who just finished the Giro last week. Of course he's a guy nurtured in the dutch Rabo system but is it enough to suspect him of doping? I don't think so !
What AC & WK have in common they were not the most impressive riders yesterday, they ride in conventional style and they don't come out of nowhere.
 
lllludo said:
Of course yesterday's perf was surprisingly high especially for a guy who just finished the Giro last week.
Actually, riders who come off a GT and who have had a chance to rest for a bit have an edge over everyone else, as long as they didn't finish the GT sick or extremely exhausted. They come out of it extra lean and fit. This is why the Vuelta is the preferred method to prepare the WC.
 
hrotha said:
Actually, riders who come off a GT and who have had a chance to rest for a bit have an edge over everyone else, as long as they didn't finish the GT sick or extremely exhausted. They come out of it extra lean and fit. This is why the Vuelta is the preferred method to prepare the WC.
In keeping with the topic what do you think about post at number 18 that Nepalese and Tibetan should be good climbers and hell even Shaolin monks will be a good GT riders as they seem to have great endurance. :D
 
May 26, 2009
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TANK91 said:
I was shocked by Kelderman i must be honest i like the guy but it is unny when we hear all the stuff about CF and hardly anything against AC and WK.
Tank, don't embarass yourself. You know as well as anyone here there is plenty of flak against AC. Your mancrush on Froome is unbecoming.

WK is another case considering he just pops up now. You can rest assured that if he keeps this up there will be plenty of threads on how suspect he is and on how dirty the past of his team is.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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hrotha said:
Actually, riders who come off a GT and who have had a chance to rest for a bit have an edge over everyone else, as long as they didn't finish the GT sick or extremely exhausted. They come out of it extra lean and fit. This is why the Vuelta is the preferred method to prepare the WC.
The Giro is probably the hardest Grand Tour and usually riders finish tired after and have lower hematocrit values. Successful riders in the Dauphine, one week after a successful Giro, are very rare.
Sometimes you can see riders perform well in the Tour de Suisse. 10 years ago it was common for guys like Frigo, Simoni, Belli, Casagrande to be strong on both races but now we know they were doing it with blood doping.
 
May 26, 2009
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lllludo said:
The Giro is probably the hardest Grand Tour and usually riders finish tired after and have lower hematocrit values. Successful riders in the Dauphine, one week after a successful Giro, are very rare.
Sometimes you can see riders perform well in the Tour de Suisse. 10 years ago it was common for guys like Frigo, Simoni, Belli, Casagrande to be strong on both races but now we know they were doing it with blood doping.
1. I dispute that the Giro is the hardest GT.
2. I'm stongly doubting this is true considering what we see in San Sebastian-San Sebastian.

The claim that a rider can emerge in top form from a GT and then with a week rest can be top of his game is very plausible.

And yeah, that can be with or without blood vector doping as the pre-epo years also show that a rider can emerge from a GT extremely strong.
 
Everyone who has cycled before knows about supercompensation. It just doesn't last very long anymore. Soon Kelderman will get a huge dip, either this dauphine or just after, but then he's resting already.

I mean even i as a simple tour rider notice that. If I've done a few very long hard exhausting rides in a week. I feel incredible tired the next week, but if I go out on the bike that week, you feel really strong
 
Jul 21, 2012
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They seem plausible this tour too. Doesnt mean they are clean but I wouldnt call them dopers without anything to back it up with.
 
Oct 25, 2012
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the sceptic said:
They seem plausible this tour too. Doesnt mean they are clean but I wouldnt call them dopers without anything to back it up with.
Ten Dam in particular.

I'd still like to know what they do to recover from stage to stage, but to me LTD looks about the yardstick for clean riding this year.

even moreso considering the future of the team was in doubt and many of those riders might have juiced for fear they'd be without a contract for 2015.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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elduggo said:
Ten Dam in particular.

I'd still like to know what they do to recover from stage to stage, but to me LTD looks about the yardstick for clean riding this year.
i'd be more cautious.
last year ten dam got interviewed on doping and he couldn't keep a straight face, was telling journos to look into the future rather than at the past. (i'll see if i can find the footage.)
he didn't convince me.
last year on most climbs ten dam and mollema finished only one or two groups behind froome.
last year and this year they are riding at boogerd level, and we all know boogerd didn't spend a single clean year in the peloton, even though he was considered our finest talent for years.
they have been at this level ever since they moved to girona spain.

even moreso considering the future of the team was in doubt and many of those riders might have juiced for fear they'd be without a contract for 2015.
i'm missing your point here.
the fear of losing out on a contract is perhaps nr. 1 reason why most riders dope or start doping.
why would ten dam and mollema be any different?
 
Oct 25, 2012
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sniper said:
i'm missing your point here.
the fear of losing out on a contract is perhaps nr. 1 reason why most riders dope or start doping.
why would ten dam and mollema be any different?
no thats what I mean. The fear of their losing a contract (ala Froome in 2011) might have seen them challenging for podium rather than just to get into the top 10.

Edit: and I can't argue with the other points. Didn't he also disappear to Turkey for a few weeks to train? Not exactly a known hotbed of cycling now is it.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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elduggo said:
no thats what I mean. The fear of their losing a contract (ala Froome in 2011) might have seen them challenging for podium rather than just to get into the top 10.
i see, thanks for expanding.
true, they could've been tempted to juice froome style.
but i personally don't think either of them has had any real fear of missing out on a pro-contract for next year, especially if they could repeat their 2013 performance, which is exactly what they've done.
in my layman view they doped 2013 and 2014 to get into the top 10, although certainly not froome style. more like garmin/greenedge style.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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elduggo said:
Ten Dam in particular.

I'd still like to know what they do to recover from stage to stage, but to me LTD looks about the yardstick for clean riding this year.

even moreso considering the future of the team was in doubt and many of those riders might have juiced for fear they'd be without a contract for 2015.
Agree. Ten Dam is the first on the GC i would bet money on being clean.

I dont think there is anything about him that makes me think he is doping, other than being a pro cyclist I suppose.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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must say i think belkin again rode kind of cowardly this tour, pretty much like last year. no attacks, just following.
between ten dam and mollema, i would have appreciated at least one of them going for a stage win rather than a boring 10th place which hardly anybody will remember.
 
Sep 26, 2009
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Laurens Ten Dam

LAURENS TEN DAM

So, Mr 'I have nothing to hide just look at all my data' Ten Dam just ruined his smokescreen...

He attributes his fine overall result to hitting peak form at the right time, but also to what he said was a cleaner race.

“It’s more of a personal thing for me. I can’t point fingers at the other riders,” he said, speaking of his position on ethics. “I know how I did it and I am really happy with how I did it. But to be honest, I believe the race was really clean.

“For me, when I see the guys ahead of me, I think it’s a clean Tour and I am happy with the results I am getting at age 33. I’m not thinking about results I could have gotten at age 25 but I am happy with my life. I can look everyone in the eye and for me that’s important.”
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/07/laurens-ten-dam-interview-dutchman-really-happy-with-tour/
 
Oct 16, 2010
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i might be wrong but i think what Cycle Chic is getting at is that, according to JV's logic, if Ten Dam were clean he'd be busy ostracizing (former) dopers rather than singing hallelujah.

i personally don't think that's how it works though these days.
i think even if there are clean riders these days they won't be spitting in the soup.
i do think that if there were a majority of clean riders in the peloton, the dopers might become isolated and, eventually, ostracized.
but obviously i don't think they constitute a majority. at best a voiceless minority.

whether Ten Dam belongs to that minority is another question.
i don't think the statements singled out by Cycle Chic give as any indication either way.
 
Sep 26, 2009
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hrotha said:
I don't get it.
well to say that he thinks the tdf was really clean is laughable.

when he looks at the guys ahead of him he thinks its a clean tour - need i say more.
 

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