how long before Sagan trips the tripwire

[yourwelcome]

I have no idea if the efforts Sagan had to put in for his wins can be physiologically compared to Ricco's climbing feats. Can they?

But there's no getting around it - in pro cycling, history suggests that if it just even looks like a duck... 90% of the time it is.

 

[ChrisE]

I'll just drop this right here.

owow the guy hes very strong how could be the others going flat out mouth wide open running out of breath ,he past them has a bullet even slow down before the line how could be so many win this year then not slowing down something fishy never ever see that in my entire life ,does someone explain i am very suspicious here sure he has a huge talent .
maybe a new training program ha ha or maybe new drug hes impossible a guy performs so strong since the beginning of the season if he keep going sure it will win the Olympic race very easy.
next year many team will have a open check book too have signed up.
good Luke too him

 

[the delgados]

I'll just drop this right here.

Mr. Sagan has a great PR agent. S/he just needs to brush up on the english language and stop asking uncomfortable questions.

 

[patricknd]

Cannot WAIT to see what cocktail of peptide hormones it is that Sagan is using. Given EVERYTHING we know about pro cycling, and what we experienced during the last 14 years, it's completely reasonable to suspect that Sagan is doping, as to be able to out-sprint the world's OTHER most elite, awesome professional cyclists - and then be able to arrogantly mock them as you cross the line smiling, hardly breathing, doing a stupid chicken dance - it REEKS of Riccò!

And to suggest that Sagan has this dominant edge b/c of the fact that he's just 22 years old...wtf? What does that have to do w/ anything and why then aren't all the other 22 year old's manifesting the same insane, seemingly dope-fueled performance ability?

But regardless of whether or not he's doped, the arrogance and disrespect for his competitors that Sagan has displayed during these two TdF stage wins is regrettable.

brilliant !!!! **** all those expensive medical checks, let them adopt the victory salute test, that always identifies the dirty ones

 

[nighttrain]

Who cares about Sagan's victory salute?

The point of this thread was speculation of when Sagan would join the esteemed list below. I hope he's clean but can not reckon so while considering the past anomalous performances in pro cycling.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

 

[BigBoat]

Interesting you mention Duggan, i read that article stating his FTP at 315W but if you look at his race files e.g. from the ATOC, you'll see him doing 315W (336NP) for 23 minutes, 4hrs into an RR with the last 10minutes at 367W NP. To me it's clear that his FTP is way over 315 and the article/analyst is incorrect.

I won't embed the image since it's from Velonews.

http://velonews.competitor.com/files/2012/05/Duggan-ATOC2.png

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/05/tour-of-california/amgen-power-analysis-timmy-duggan_220966

Yeah....strange that his FTP is 350-60...then all of a sudden 315.

But really, to win the US pro championship you need higher than 5.0 w/kg FTP period. I mean there's not less than a few cat 1-2 sprinters who have higher than that. You need to normalize a good 300+ watts for 90 minutes in an NRC criterium just to get a pack finish at Duggan's weight.

I use the same SRM powermeter that he does and the zero offset resets automatically as you ride down the road so you get the same comparable data ride after ride as long as the slope stays set the same. There's no reason for it to vary that much unless he smashed his crank arms on the pavement or something!

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Great riders tend to be great at young age. This said, how many suspicious results has Liquigas had this season? Big big talent.

Puncheur supreme.

Must say I had to smile with his celebration, no chicken dance, a Forrest Gump imitation it was.

 

[Parrot23]

Papp smear test

UCI to introduce a new Papp smear test, I've heard.

Sagan is just exuberant and having fun. Videos of him mountain biking, far away from his competitors, show exactly the same guy.

Supposed to have a huge VO2 max AND anaerobic capacity together. But I do think he's on something(s) as well. Just look at Cancellara in comparison: you can SEE his thighs burning up. Not with our boy, Peter's Tourminator saga.

He's just a great "responder": feels lactate, and thinks, "Wow, that's a buzz, betta get some more! Luv'in it!" Just like a Forrest Gump, an unusual responder.

(It was very funny. Not like some of these lame victory salutes we've had over the years like sucking on a pacifier, and other oddities. Sagan was funny--was just thinking about his friends, not his competitors at all. A young guy. It sort of like when young mothers are polled, a lot of them admit to liking having a son instead of a girl--it's just their sheer exuberance, mischief and energy. Substitute Sagan here.)

 

[Kazistuta]

Hate to say it, but the Sagan victory salute haters seems like old grumpy men. Let's have the same kind of (lame) celebration in every race/stage, by all means let's not allow the riders some individuality. WRONG!

This reminds me of the NFL (No Fun League), where commisioners are trying their best to diminish the celebrations after a score, thus limiting the spectator show. Let's not go there. Sagan is (as several pointed out) a young guy, driven by his eagerness and pure racing enjoyment, why shouldn't he celebrate his wins like he pleases?

Maybe the first win, mostly due to Spartacus' work, could be handledmore delicately (but after all it was his first TDF win ever, a little excitement was to be expected), but yesterdays impressive win deserved a proper salute...and got it!

 

[lostintime]

I thought Sagan was a bit arrogant too .... but when he explained about the dance thing being the "forest gump" impersonation ..... it changed my perspective on him.

Nobody knows him, let alone any of theses riders .. not truly. We assume they "Should" know better or act better or whatever ..... but based on what ? Our own assumptions of ourselves. He is who he is. We all think we know what we'd do in crossing the finish line or if had great talent .... but unless we are in there shoes ... which we're not going to be .... I for one may still judge him as I cannot NOT judge in some way, but I'm not going to hold anything against him that's for sure.

All these indictments of these guys .... man ... take a look in the mirror . See Snow White ? I thought not. Have fun with it ! I laughed with the Forest Gump thing ..... that was the first celebration I've seen in a looong time that I laughed with ! His success may be as surprising to him as it is to us.... and in interviews and such they throw you these softballs of dumb questions and who knows how you'd respond ? .... these guys are cyclists ... not PR specialists .

 

[sniper]

IMO his arrogance and doping are not unrelated.
the latter feeds the former.
clearly, this guy's been choreographing his victory salutes well before the start of the tour. that's not what I'd call spontaneous celebrating.
the guy is so doped up that he knew well before the start of the tour that he was going to beat all those micro-dosers out there and win a couple of stages.

 

[ChrisE]

IMO his arrogance and doping are not unrelated.
the latter feeds the former.
clearly, this guy's been choreographing his victory salutes well before the start of the tour. that's not what I'd call spontaneous celebrating.
the guy is so doped up that he knew well before the start of the tour that he was going to beat all those micro-dosers out there and win a couple of stages.

That was pretty good. Bravo.

 

[Ripper]

Re: the victory salute - It is great to see the craziness and fun. What arrogance? And really ... is the bang bang better?

Re: possible doping - I get a little concerned when there is loads of talent in the field and not only does he make it look easy with the gaps, but he looks like he is taking it easy. You can't say much just 'cause someone looks like they are working hard. But when everyone else looks like they are giving birth and you look like you have not broken a sweat or really need much air, it gets a bit worrisome. At first I thought it was just really good anaerobic tolerance, but this is getting a bit much. I have not made up my mind yet, but it does raise an eyebrow.

 

[hrotha]

I bet he's doping, because I see Liquigas as a dirty team, but come on, grimacing or lack thereof and arrogance are very poor indicators of doping. I don't remember Sagan's thighs letting any trouble show when he couldn't follow the leaders in Flanders anymore.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

IMO his arrogance and doping are not unrelated.
the latter feeds the former.
clearly, this guy's been choreographing his victory salutes well before the start of the tour. that's not what I'd call spontaneous celebrating.
the guy is so doped up that he knew well before the start of the tour that he was going to beat all those micro-dosers out there and win a couple of stages.

Wait, Sagan is having his victory salutes choreographed? By whom?
Because if it's by Paula Abdul then he he may not be doping but he is definitely dirty.

 

[function]

IMO his arrogance and doping are not unrelated.
the latter feeds the former.
clearly, this guy's been choreographing his victory salutes well before the start of the tour. that's not what I'd call spontaneous celebrating.
the guy is so doped up that he knew well before the start of the tour that he was going to beat all those micro-dosers out there and win a couple of stages.

There are rumours of arrests by the gendarmerie at dance studios all over France.

 

[Caruut]

A poker face isn't exactly a bad asset for a rider to have, either.

 

[hiero2]

Normally i like when Papp is writing. But he is wrong to accuse Sagan of doping b/c of his arrogant celebrations.
. . .

. . .
Accusing someone of doping based on a victory salute seems a bit hysterical.
How 'bout the next guy who displays some semblance of "respect?" Is he doping?

I have to wonder if anybody is actually reading Joe's post. He never associated the finish celebrations with his suspicion that Sagan is doping. Only the performances. It seems more like somebody misread the post, and shot out a one-liner that is getting repeated.

Has this turned into "he's kind of a **** so he's doping?" Come on, people. The two things are unrelated.

True, and I think most of the posts here are saying the same thing. Even Joe's post did not associate the two things.

No dude. LA spoiled the presumption of innocence for all *****.

Very true, and also unfortunate. I think that, above all, is what annoys me about that whole bit. Until there is some clarity about those years, and about events today, it is very difficult to presume innocence.

 

[hrotha]

Well, hiero...

Cannot WAIT to see what cocktail of peptide hormones it is that Sagan is using. Given EVERYTHING we know about pro cycling, and what we experienced during the last 14 years, it's completely reasonable to suspect that Sagan is doping, as to be able to out-sprint the world's OTHER most elite, awesome professional cyclists - and then be able to arrogantly mock them as you cross the line smiling, hardly breathing, doing a stupid chicken dance - it REEKS of Riccò!

...I don't think anyone misread.

 

[gatete]

IMO his arrogance and doping are not unrelated.
the latter feeds the former.
clearly, this guy's been choreographing his victory salutes well before the start of the tour. that's not what I'd call spontaneous celebrating.
the guy is so doped up that he knew well before the start of the tour that he was going to beat all those micro-dosers out there and win a couple of stages.

I'm a little puzzled by the sentiments of doping innuendo towards Sagan, he's the Cavendish of Hilly finishes, and yet Mark doesn't get the same treatment? even the salutes were odd in Mark's earlier victories and nothing was mentioned. why does Sagan gets more of these doping accusations and not Cavendish????

 

[usedtobefast]

Wait, Sagan is having his victory salutes choreographed? By whom?
Because if it's by Paula Abdul then he he may not be doping but he is definitely dirty.

dirty little Paula...hahaha!

 

[lostintime]

I'm a little puzzle by the sentiments of doping innuendo towards Sagan, he's the Cavendish of Hilly finishes, and yet Mark doesn't get the same treatment? even the salutes were odd in Mark's earliers victories and nothing was mentioned. why does Sagan gets more of these doping accusations and not Cavendish????

Yeah.. I was just thinking the SAME thing ! I think back to the year he won in Paris and beat everyone by a considerable distance for one . This suspicion thing is getting silly .... if EVERYONE who wins is doping ... why does anyone watch ?

Hey, what about Cancellara ..... he's "like a machine" ? Right ? Oh .. maybe he's got one in his bike ? Maybe he's got one in his chest ? Nope .. he must be a dope too then. If he's considered a "good guy" .... nah .. he wouldn't dope. If he's a "punk"... then yeah ... he must be doping. Wow ......

Yes, I'm generalizing .... but generally this goes on .

Yeah .. I find all this rather funny really .... it's like people complaining about going to a movie they consider is gruesome before they go ... but go anyways and watch it ....then complain about it.

 

[metaCYCLE]

Let's get back to serious business: Sagan is the new Vino. Only the awesomeness. Not the dope.

 

[BigBoat]

I'm a little puzzled by the sentiments of doping innuendo towards Sagan, he's the Cavendish of Hilly finishes, and yet Mark doesn't get the same treatment? even the salutes were odd in Mark's earlier victories and nothing was mentioned. why does Sagan gets more of these doping accusations and not Cavendish????

Its his versatility that seems insane to posters here in the clinic.

.....but really there's enough dope to go around Cav..... No need to be jealous of Sagan's accusations.

 

[orangerider]

Recent wide open flat stages show Sagan doesn't have the same power delivery of the big boy sprinters, so he isn't that unbeatable at all. Just good at what he does best - uphill or technical end sprints. Sure, he'll destroy the second tier flat sprinters in races like the ToC but that's different.