How to prove a negative?

[thehog]

Hear it a lot.

No way to prove a negative.

But there appears many things teams/cyclists could to demonstrate a level of cleanness.

JV says that we wouldn't' understand.

But what could be done to show that a team or individual cyclists are clean? (other than saying it).

 

[ebandit]

contrary

in contrast to the thoughts of many posters in the clinic.......it's not necesary

default position for ANY cyclist is clean

cycling teams unlike many here have better things to be doing with their time

rather than proving what is already known

Mark L

 

[ebandit]

pointless

in contrast to the thoughts of many posters in the clinic.......it's not necesary

aye! bandit..............pointless as pointless is.......just like this thread

.........just someone looking for more attention

Mark L

 

[RedheadDane]

Did you just... reply to your own post?

 

[Samson777]

Did you just... reply to your own post?

Well, it was a good post..

 

[ebandit]

aye!

Did you just... reply to your own post?

aye..............................pretty sad huh!

Mark L

 

[ebandit]

thanks

Well, it was a good post..

thanks! normally i seem to be thought of as a trolling drama queen

Mark L

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

aye..............................pretty sad huh!

Mark L

thanks! normally i seem to be thought of as a trolling drama queen

Mark L

GReat posts bandido.

On topic now. Lets make the SRM's public.

 

[Race Radio]

I usually like to wait for the good old bag of drugs dumped in a trashcan, toilet, field.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I usually like to wait for the good old bag of drugs dumped in a trashcan, toilet, field.

And then wait for 11 years? Thats not pro - active RR.

 

[LaFlorecita]

aye! bandit..............pointless as pointless is.......just like this thread

.........just someone looking for more attention

Mark L

Good post ebandit!

 

[sideshadow]

I think eventually something like this. http://cleanprotocol.org/

For now tough, SRM data, APB.

 

[mikehammer67]

http://www.cyclisme.ag2rlamondiale.fr/english/anti-doping/measures-uphold-clean-sport.asp

 

[pmcg76]

http://www.cyclisme.ag2rlamondiale.fr/english/anti-doping/measures-uphold-clean-sport.asp

Yes and how many of the usual suspects on here believe AG2R is clean.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

I think eventually something like this. http://cleanprotocol.org/

For now tough, SRM data, APB.

It would be interesting to know more about their methods of psychometric and deception testing.

 

[Race Radio]

And then wait for 11 years? Thats not pro - active RR.

I don't know about you but I certainly did not wait 11 years. I went full gas on this topic over a decade ago.

I form my opinions by talking to dozens of people close to the sport. Current and former Pro's, staff, administrators, testers, etc. Add to this physical evidence. Then add in Watts, VAM, W/kg. There are still many questions, a toxic culture, and many elements that need to be out of the sport.....but the top level of the sport is cleaner then ever. Significantly cleaner then even 5 years ago. The amateur side is a mess, but that is a different story

 

[thehog]

With the power of the Internet I'd like to see power tracking.

National & International.

Blood profiles would be a start also.

But a database of power levels per race. Not so much to sanction but to assist with target testing. In addition to demonstrating to the public that all is well.

SRMs need to be standised also. If the UCI can mandate seat angle parameters then they can issue standard SRM units.

The AIS already have a database when they do their talent profiling. Should be extended. Or a version of. Most national federations at a junior level have similar.

 

[Race Radio]

With the power of the Internet I'd like to see power tracking.

National & International.

Blood profiles would be a start also.

But a database of power levels per race. Not so much to sanction but to assist with target testing. In addition to demonstrating to the public that all is well.

SRMs need to be standised also. If the UCI can mandate seat angle parameters then they can issue standard SRM units.

The AIS already had a database when they do their talent profiling. Should be extended. Or a version of. Most national federations at a junior level have similar.

I doubt blood profile will ever be public....although there are a few I wish were. SRM would be good and have no reasonable reason to not distribute. Agree about the calibration though, I hear there are lots of issues with those asymmetric rings

 

[hektoren]

With the power of the Internet I'd like to see power tracking.

National & International.

Blood profiles would be a start also.

But a database of power levels per race. Not so much to sanction but to assist with target testing. In addition to demonstrating to the public that all is well.

SRMs need to be standised also. If the UCI can mandate seat angle parameters then they can issue standard SRM units.

The AIS already have a database when they do their talent profiling. Should be extended. Or a version of. Most national federations at a junior level have similar.

Having some experience with SRM's I'd have to say that you'd be amazed at the variability of power output as a single factor, unless you start to take into account the duration at max or near-max, frequency of repetitions at near or absolute max, reported subjective "form" on the day, abscence of personal problems (no nagging and *****ing significant other, a stable economy, optimal nutrition and restitution etc. etc. etc.) Unless you start taking all "outer" factors into consideration, having a close relationship with the riders, SRM-readouts are meaningless. Just my personal observation.

 

[veganrob]

I don't know about you but I certainly did not wait 11 years. I went full gas on this topic over a decade ago.

I form my opinions by talking to dozens of people close to the sport. Current and former Pro's, staff, administrators, testers, etc. Add to this physical evidence. Then add in Watts, VAM, W/kg. There are still many questions, a toxic culture, and many elements that need to be out of the sport.....but the top level of the sport is cleaner then ever. Significantly cleaner then even 5 years ago. The amateur side is a mess, but that is a different story

Can you explain why the top level is cleaner now if the amateur side is such a mess? Or are only comparing the top, now and then? thanks

 

[ebandit]

naive

to myself the op's ideas of publishing blood profiles and srm data are very naive and completely unrealistic

blood profiles need to be considered carefully by trained personnel with extensive medical knowledge

riders can't be trusted to publish their genuine weights what srm data
would be forwarded..............imagine the amount of misinformation?

ok world tour events could be competed on official bikes with the same equipment directly streaming srm data to the media

................dream on!

Mark L

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Can you explain why the top level is cleaner now if the amateur side is such a mess? Or are only comparing the top, now and then? thanks

Better tests cost more to implement; top level races can afford it (and often need to adhere to it to maintain their top level status), but many smaller Continental races go with lesser or even no testing; continue the trend down for amateur events. Also, the biopassport may not eradicate doping but it does reduce the amount that one can get away with, therefore doping at the pro levels has to be more subtle in order to get away with it, whereas riders at the amateur level can often still rely on decades-old methods to dope and get around what testing there is.

 

[Ripper]

I don't know about you but I certainly did not wait 11 years. I went full gas on this topic over a decade ago.

I form my opinions by talking to dozens of people close to the sport. Current and former Pro's, staff, administrators, testers, etc. Add to this physical evidence. Then add in Watts, VAM, W/kg. There are still many questions, a toxic culture, and many elements that need to be out of the sport.....but the top level of the sport is cleaner then ever. Significantly cleaner then even 5 years ago. The amateur side is a mess, but that is a different story

Well the top is definitely cleaner than it has been in 20-25 years. However, that is perhaps not the best benchmark. I think it could be cleaner still.

I think Hog actually has a point in the OP. Cycling has had such a history, and there is such a degree of cynicism, that every positive hammers the nails harder into the coffin. It is already doing more than many sports. I would like to see it do more.

E-B ... you are trolling this thread pretty heavily.

 

[the sceptic]

to myself the op's ideas of publishing blood profiles and srm data are very naive and completely unrealistic

blood profiles need to be considered carefully by trained personnel with extensive medical knowledge

riders can't be trusted to publish their genuine weights what srm data
would be forwarded..............imagine the amount of misinformation?

ok world tour events could be competed on official bikes with the same equipment directly streaming srm data to the media

................dream on!

Mark L

Finally the teams can get some good use of their doctors

 

[thehog]

Do we want a scandal free sport or a dope free sport?

The anwser is somewhere inbetween for the UCI.