I just have to ask ? Marianne Vos

[DirtyWorks]

And if we look hard enough I think we can find plenty of things to say about France (Dr. Mabuse), Germany (Freiburg, XC skiing, former East-Germany) and Belgium (Vdb, Leinders, Votes, Pottes Belges, etc.). The point being that if you want to cheat one country is as suitable as the next. Now I know that doesn't fit in well with your world of prejudice and preconceived ideas, but so be it.

Shouting down any discussion on the matter is weak. What's worse, is that some readers probably don't recognize your veiled personal attack.

Please bring some facts to make your case.

The bottom line here is, historically, going to far-off places is a very successful strategy for completing a doping cycle. Cross a few borders to eliminate any criminal prosecution regarding controlled substances, if the rules exist, and only the UCI is left as an authority.

The UCI enables the doping, so it brings even Vos into question. There's nothing wrong with collecting evidence and discussing it. IMHO, Vos is clean.

 

[johanb]

Problem though is, this whole Vos/South-Africa thing was because underneath one article here on CN, it said Vos was now off to South-Africa for a training camp. People immediatly shot to conclusions without even knowing the details of the training camp, without knowing it's a training camp by the Dutch nat. federation, has been going there for years now with several of the best Dutch female cyclists, and even though some of them are pretty good, most of the others don't really have the results that would immediatly point to doping.

 

[Benotti69]

What makes you think the Dutch Nat Fed are clean?????????????

 

[sniper]

Problem though is, this whole Vos/South-Africa thing was because underneath one article here on CN, it said Vos was now off to South-Africa for a training camp. People immediatly shot to conclusions without even knowing the details of the training camp, without knowing it's a training camp by the Dutch nat. federation, has been going there for years now with several of the best Dutch female cyclists, and even though some of them are pretty good, most of the others don't really have the results that would immediatly point to doping.

apparently some Dutch female cyclists are better responders than others.

 

[timbo25]

So let me get this straight. You can't train in Girona in particular or Spain in general because of the rampant PED-abuse there. You can't train in Italy because at best all well-known doping doctors are Italian. You can't train in South-Africa because of rampant PED-abuse there. You can't train on Tenerife because of Fuentes and because we all know why Sky trains there. You can't train in Hawaii because Hesjedal trains there and we all know why he does that and naturally you can't train in Israel because sniper says so.

In your reckoning, is there actually any country riders could train in that would not automatically associate them with PED-abuse? This is a serious question, because generally a good training place needs at least good weather, varied landscape, reasonably high standard of living (for hygiene purposes at least), reasonably good roads, easy air transfer and preferably as little time zones as possible between home and place of training. So please do tell us where a rider can train without being accused of PED-abuse instantly?

Vos has trained on Tenerife multiple times.

 

[GJB123]

Vos has trained on Tenerife multiple times.

Besides reacting to a past of mine of some 3 months ago, what exactly is your point?

 

[GJB123]

Vos has trained on Tenerife multiple times.

Besides reacting to a post of mine of some 3 months ago, what exactly is your point? Is it good, bad or neither that she trained on Tenerife?

 

[timbo25]

Besides reacting to a past of mine of some 3 months ago, what exactly is your point? Is it good, bad or neither that she trained on Tenerife?

its bad, because of suspious peds

 

[GJB123]

its bad, because of suspious peds

I see. You had no point.

But please enligthen me. Where can you train and not have a suspicion hanging over you?

 

[timbo25]

I see. You had no point.

But please enligthen me. Where can you train and not have a suspicion hanging over you?

why would you train near Fuentus office/practise if you can train everywhere?

 

[Cycle Chic]

Vos must be laughing all the way to her Rabobank.....going undetected all this time....cause no-ones interested in womens cycling.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Tell that to Bastianelli, Leleivyte or Bubnenkova, who've all served suspensions.

 

[Cloxxki]

Vos has been in a very protected family environment forever.

I know for a fact that some Dutch Olympic teams go to great length to obtain doping-tested supplements which they have good experiences with.
They take dope testing very seriously and don't want to be nandroloned.
One multi-athlete I know of (not Vos, but similar) that has WR's and such, puts great study into it. If you show up to multiple OG's, and don't like to gamble (or cheat), you put some thought into supplements.

 

[Stetoe]

2002
1st Dutch National Mountain Biking Championships (Junior)
1st Dutch National Road Race Championships (Junior)
2nd Dutch National Time Trial Championships (Junior)
2003
1st Dutch National Mountain Biking Championships (Junior)
2nd Dutch National Time Trial Championships (Junior)
2004
1st Cyclo-cross race in Gieten
3rd Dutch National Road Race Championships (Junior)
3rd Dutch National Time Trial Championships (Junior)
1st Cyclo-cross race in Surhuisterveen
1st Cyclo-cross race in Pijnacker-Nootdorp
1st Dutch National Mountain Biking Championships (Junior)
1st UCI Road World Championships – Junior Women's Road Race
2005
2nd UCI Road World Championships – Junior Women's Road Race (Juniors)
1st European Championship Cyclo-cross
2nd Dutch National Cyclo-cross Championships
1st Dutch National Road Race Championships (Juniors)
3rd Dutch National Time Trial Championships (Juniors)
1st Dutch National Mountain Biking Championships (Juniors)
1st Mountain Bike World Cup meeting in Houffalize (Juniors)
1st Mountain Bike race in Heeswijk
1st Omloop van Borsele
1st Cyclo-cross race in Harderwijk
1st Cyclo-cross race in Sumar
1st Cyclo-cross race in Gieten
1st Cyclo-cross race in Loenhout
2006
1st UCI Road Race World Championships
1st UCI Cyclo-cross World Championships
1st European Road Race Championships
3rd UCI Cyclo-cross European Championships
1st Dutch National Road Race Championships
2nd Dutch National Cyclo-cross Championships
1st Cyclo-cross race in Pétange
1st Stage 5, Gracia-Orlova
1st Omloop van Borsele
1st Stage 1, Emakumeen Bira
1st Omloop van Valkenburg
1st Overall Tour Féminin en Limousin
1st Stage 1 and stage 3, Tour Féminin en Limousin
1st Criterium Steenwijk
1st Draai van de Kaai
1st Criterium Oostvoorne
1st Criterium Pijnacker
1st Stage 4, Trophée d'Or Féminin
2nd Overall, Giro della Toscana Int. Femminile – Memorial Michela Fanini
1st Stage 1 (Team Time Trial)
2007
1st UCI Women's Road World Cup
1st La Flèche Wallonne Féminine (World Cup)
1st Rund um die Nürnberger Altstadt (World Cup)
1st Ronde van Gelderland (1.2 W)
1st Overall, Giro di San Marino (2.1 W)
1st Stage 1 ITT, Stage 2 and Stage 3
1st Omloop van Borsele (1.2 W)
1st Stage 1, Tour de l'Aude Cycliste Féminin (2.1 W)
2nd Overall, Emakumeen Bira (2.1 W)
1st stage 2 and 3
2nd 2007 Novilon Internationale Damesronde van Drenthe (1.1W)
3rd 2007 Ronde van Drenthe World Cup (World Cup)
1st Stage 2, Giro d'Italia Femminile (2.1 W)
2nd UCI Road World Championships
2nd individual pursuit, 2007 Dutch National Track Championships
1st points race, 2007 Dutch National Track Championships
1st scratch, Dutch National Track Championships
2008
1st UCI Track Cycling World Championships – Points Race
1st Olympic Games – Points race
1st La Flèche Wallonne Féminine
1st Dutch National Road Race Championships
2nd UCI Road World Championships
2009
1st UCI Cyclo-cross World Championships
1st Overall UCI Women's Road World Cup
1st Trofeo Alfredo Binda
1st Ronde van Drenthe
1st La Flèche Wallonne Féminine
1st Dutch National Road Race Championships
2nd UCI Road World Championships
3rd European Under-23 championships, time trial
3rd European Under-23 championships, road race
1st Open de Suède Vargarda
1st Holland Ladies Tour
2010
1st UCI Cyclo-cross World Championships
1st Dutch National Time Trial Championships
1st Overall UCI Women's Road World Cup
1st Trofeo Alfredo Binda
1st Gracia - Orlova
1st Stages 1, 4 & 5
1st Emakumeen Saria
2nd Ronde van Vlaanderen voor Vrouwen
2nd UCI Road World Championships
1st Holland Ladies Tour
2011
1st Dutch National Cyclo-cross Championships
1st UCI Cyclo-cross World Championships
1st UCI Track World Championships, Scratch race
3rd Ronde van Vlaanderen voor Vrouwen
1st Ronde van Drenthe
1st La Flèche Wallonne Féminine
1st Grand Prix Elsy Jacobs
1st GP Ciudad de Valladolid
1st Emakumeen Saria
1st Iurreta-Emakumeen Bira
1st Stages 1, 2 & 4
1st Giro d'Italia Femminile
1st Stages 1, 3, 6, 7 & 9
Points classification
Mountain classification
1st Holland Ladies Tour
2nd UCI Road World Championships
2012
1st Dutch National Cyclo-cross Championships
1st UCI Cyclo-cross World Championships
1st Overall UCI Women's Road World Cup
1st Ronde van Drenthe
1st Trofeo Alfredo Binda
1st Grand Prix Elsy Jacobs
1st Giro d'Italia Femminile
1st Stages 1, 2, 4, 7 & 8
Points classification
1st Tour Féminin en Limousin
1st Stages 1 & 4
1st Olympic Games – Road race
1st GP de Plouay
1st BrainWash Ladies Tour
4th UCI Road Race World Championships, Team time trial
1st UCI Road Race World Championships, Road race
1st women 2012 Amstel Curaçao Race
1st Madison, Dutch National Track Championships (with Roxane Knetemann)
2013
1st Dutch National Cyclo-cross Championships
1st UCI Cyclo-cross World Championships
1st Drentse 8
1st Ronde van Drenthe
1st Tour of Flanders (Ronde van Vlaanderen)
1st La Flèche Wallonne Féminine
1st Grand Prix Elsy Jacobs
1st Emakumeen Saria
1st Emakumeen Bira Stage 1
1st Giro d'Italia Femminile Stage 3

25 years old.
Currently holding nr. 1 spot in de Giro d'Italia with over +1,5 minutes on the number 2, after only 3 stages.

As a supporting Dutchie, I don't know what to believe anymore.
Even if she is using, dominating four different sports for over 10 years is still an incredible feat.

 

[Samson777]

Don't know a lot about womans cycling, but that is a crazy list.. But I guess the competition in womans cycling is not that tough? How many is earning good money, and is able to focus 120% on the sport? But anyway, crazy achievements.

 

[SeriousSam]

2002

Even if she is using, dominating four different sports for over 10 years is still an incredible feat.

As is winning the tour de france 7 time consecutively.

 

[Cloxxki]

It might well be that Vos won more pro races than Lance has starts post-cancer.
That 7 took a whole lot of focus, this was no hype. Because the competition is better than him, and needs to be out-cheated.
Vos, with so many races, so make herself very available to in-competition tests. She has no off-season to go into hiding.
Whomever wins this TdF, will likely be watching TV when VOS takes her next cross or track world title. Heck, he'll not be at the Olympics in Rio probably. Vos will be doing MTB for a change of pace.
Even if Vos were the only doper in all of women's cycling, and therefore on the sauce since early junior years (she was breathtakingly amazing in cross at 14, bettering most of the best boys of her age who in turn gave yours truly a run for his money in MTB), then still she is an out-of-this-world talent to win so early, and then for so long, so consistently, and in so many disciplines.
Don't be surprised that when cycling gets boring for her, when she takes up long track skating, doing a reverse Sablikova. She was great on skates, just had only 24 hours in a day.
Her CV system must be awesome beyond belief, with ultra-efficient leg muscles. See her compete with blown-up muscle balls in cross. Some can put time on her in shot bursts, or on specific courses. That's about it.

 

[Cycle Chic]

It might well be that Vos won more pro races than Lance has starts post-cancer.
That 7 took a whole lot of focus, this was no hype. Because the competition is better than him, and needs to be out-cheated.
Vos, with so many races, so make herself very available to in-competition tests. She has no off-season to go into hiding.
Whomever wins this TdF, will likely be watching TV when VOS takes her next cross or track world title. Heck, he'll not be at the Olympics in Rio probably. Vos will be doing MTB for a change of pace.
Even if Vos were the only doper in all of women's cycling, and therefore on the sauce since early junior years (she was breathtakingly amazing in cross at 14, bettering most of the best boys of her age who in turn gave yours truly a run for his money in MTB), then still she is an out-of-this-world talent to win so early, and then for so long, so consistently, and in so many disciplines.
Don't be surprised that when cycling gets boring for her, when she takes up long track skating, doing a reverse Sablikova. She was great on skates, just had only 24 hours in a day.
Her CV system must be awesome beyond belief, with ultra-efficient leg muscles. See her compete with blown-up muscle balls in cross. Some can put time on her in shot bursts, or on specific courses. That's about it.

You can bet your last dollar the Italian girls are doped to the gills...so Vos is also.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Marianne cracked today! Very uncommon sight, losing over 5 minutes.

The big fear for her for me is not that she pops positive (after all, if anybody were going to be caught by testing in women's cycling, it would be the woman who wins so much that she's pretty much guaranteed to be the most tested athlete in competition in women's cycling by a factor of many), but more that, now she's won the Ronde van Vlaanderen, which was the last big gap on her palmarès, that she will go the same way as Magdalena Neuner and retire before even reaching potential peak years, as the expectations of victory increase and the personal satisfaction of winning is devalued to the point of mere statistics.

 

[Cloxxki]

Marianne cracked today! Very uncommon sight, losing over 5 minutes.

The big fear for her for me is not that she pops positive (after all, if anybody were going to be caught by testing in women's cycling, it would be the woman who wins so much that she's pretty much guaranteed to be the most tested athlete in competition in women's cycling by a factor of many), but more that, now she's won the Ronde van Vlaanderen, which was the last big gap on her palmarès, that she will go the same way as Magdalena Neuner and retire before even reaching potential peak years, as the expectations of victory increase and the personal satisfaction of winning is devalued to the point of mere statistics.

That's a scenario yes. But Neuner is very special in that way. Doesn't live for the fame, just likes sports and can barely be beaten. Nice boyfriend, lots of media love, stays in own village.
Vos being so "protected", she might feel urge to pull a Longo of sorts. I mean, failing to quit.
If Vos has been beating the tests, and stays out of the Clinic news for having bad docs etc, from a family run life, there is a LOT that WADA could learn from her.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Vos said herself that losing time in the mountains was also because of specific mtb training she had been done for this season. Somehow makes her less good on climbing on the road

 

[Cloxxki]

Vos said herself that losing time in the mountains was also because of specific mtb training she had been done for this season. Somehow makes her less good on climbing on the road

I'm a mountainbiker. Can tell you being a fast lapper in MTB takes different legs than rolling up an Alp. Road climbing is done close to lactate threshold, above or under. MTB climbing is much more like an intermediate sprint, and hundreds of those in a race.

 

[Ripper]

I'm a mountainbiker. Can tell you being a fast lapper in MTB takes different legs than rolling up an Alp. Road climbing is done close to lactate threshold, above or under. MTB climbing is much more like an intermediate sprint, and hundreds of those in a race.

To highlight this point, take Alison Sydor. World champ at MTB cross country, she was more of a sprinter on the road than a climber.

The other matter is the length of the race. A typical MTB x-Country race is much shorter than a road race, never mind a stage race.

One thing I like about Vos is when she focuses on one thing, she gets really good at it, but then is a bit weaker in other areas. For example - when she focuses on road racing, her time trial results tend to suffer. This is unlike some other racers appear to be able to do well at any time on cols, short hills, TTs, and sprints Of course, those folks just needed longer races to really show their true talent

 

[deemfingtee]

Women don't make enough money cycling to dope. They're busy trying to put food on the table.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Women money earners

Women don't make enough money cycling to dope. They're busy trying to put food on the table.

I think you,ll find the likes of Lizzie Armistead and Marianne Vos are making a very nice salary from cycling....Have you heard of endorsements and sponsorship ?