I just have to ask ? Marianne Vos

[zigmeister]

Oh heavens dear, a woman would never dope. We could add 5 pages of posts of woman who have.

Here is a notable.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/09/news/longo-could-face-ban-over-whereabouts-rule_191546

Then her husband having EPO etc...

But seriously, there are just not enough woman in the sport of cycling that could dominate and make it more competitive. Swimmers, cross county skiing and such who have incredible VO2 and lactic threshold, I can imagine if they moved to cycling, they could give many a run for their money.

I'm quit amazed to see how over and over she can simply ride off the front of any race and win. Maybe she isn't female?

 

[Benotti69]

Women don't make enough money cycling to dope. They're busy trying to put food on the table.

Jeannie Longo begs to differ. Geneviève Jeanson agrees with Longo and Nicole Cooke remembers her fridge in Italy being full of dope for the team.

 

[pugdog]

Women don't make enough money cycling to dope. They're busy trying to put food on the table.

Oh that's funny. I suppose there's no doping in amateurs then.....

 

[Cycle Chic]

Funding your dope

deemfingtee is making the point that the women have no money to fund their doping....which is a good point...as there's not much money in the womens circuit.

However, its well worth borrowing some money or taking out a bank loan to get to the top.

 

[Cycle Chic]

I notice Nicole Cooke's been very quiet since last year....wasn't she meant to be spitting in the soup with her book ?

 

[Cycle Chic]

Mark Cavendish ‏@MarkCavendish28 Sep

Of all ages & genders, @marianne_vos is 1 of the purest bike racers on the planet. So exciting to watch. Congrats on another world title.

Whats all that about ??

 

[RownhamHill]

Mark Cavendish ‏@MarkCavendish28 Sep

Of all ages & genders, @marianne_vos is 1 of the purest bike racers on the planet. So exciting to watch. Congrats on another world title.

Whats all that about ??

Ermm, I can see it's a cryptically written tweet, but my guess at deciphering it is that Mark Cavendish thinks Marianne Vos is one of the greatest and most exciting riders in the world, and is congratulating her on winning the world championships.

It's just a wild guess though.

 

[oldcrank]

Ermm, I can see it's a cryptically written tweet, but my guess at deciphering it is that Mark Cavendish thinks Marianne Vos is one of the greatest and most exciting riders in the world, and is congratulating her on winning the world championships.

It's just a wild guess though.

Excellent deciphering! Did you spend the
war years at Bletchley Park, mate?

 

[D-Queued]

Jeannie Longo begs to differ. Geneviève Jeanson agrees with Longo and Nicole Cooke remembers her fridge in Italy being full of dope for the team.

Dede Demet doesn't agree with any of them. Remember that she and her husband are strongly anti-doping. Strongly.

deemfingtee is making the point that the women have no money to fund their doping....which is a good point...as there's not much money in the womens circuit.

However, its well worth borrowing some money or taking out a bank loan to get to the top.

Like Dede, they could also train others like Dave Zabriskie how to use EPO.

Maybe there is more money in that.

Dave.

 

[DirtyWorks]

deemfingtee is making the point that the women have no money to fund their doping....which is a good point...as there's not much money in the womens circuit.

However, its well worth borrowing some money or taking out a bank loan to get to the top.

Doping isn't that expensive though. Seriously. Testing is cheap too.

The idea that these women outside of maybe Vos and maybe two others are making more than a low-end salary is ridiculous. Was it last year at World's a woman still had the lawyer tabs on her fork that dramatically slowed a wheel change from neutral support? Some "pro" riders have complained they pay their own travel despite being on an elite ranked UCI team. Yes, it's that amateur.

In the U.S. the woman who qualifies for a spot on a WC team pays for everything including the kit worn during the race. Wiesel funds some riders through the USACDF, but who and how much is secret. A number of the riders have fund-raisers to fund their trip or in some cases their personal wealth is sufficient they don't need outside funding. Of course, other countries and athletes are totally different.

I will never definitively defend Vos as not doping, but she has rainbow jerseys across all disciplines and is always a podium threat if misfortune does not strike all year long for years in a row. That's not the profile of a doper.

 

[sniper]

Doping isn't that expensive though. Seriously. Testing is cheap too.

The idea that these women outside of maybe Vos and maybe two others are making more than a low-end salary is ridiculous. Was it last year at World's a woman still had the lawyer tabs on her fork that dramatically slowed a wheel change from neutral support? Some "pro" riders have complained they pay their own travel despite being on an elite ranked UCI team. Yes, it's that amateur.

In the U.S. the woman who qualifies for a spot on a WC team pays for everything including the kit worn during the race. Wiesel funds some riders through the USACDF, but who and how much is secret. A number of the riders have fund-raisers to fund their trip or in some cases their personal wealth is sufficient they don't need outside funding. Of course, other countries and athletes are totally different.

I will never definitively defend Vos as not doping, but she has rainbow jerseys across all disciplines and is always a podium threat if misfortune does not strike all year long for years in a row. That's not the profile of a doper.

althougi consistency might make an athlete less suspicious, idont think it is the ultimate sign of cleanliness either.,
guys like federer or messi are very constant performers year in year out, week after week, yet few would seriously argue these guys dont dope.

 

[DirtyWorks]

althougi consistency might make an athlete less suspicious, idont think it is the ultimate sign of cleanliness either.,
guys like federer or messi are very constant performers year in year out, week after week, yet few would seriously argue these guys dont dope.

True enough, but different sport in every sense.

But compare her performance to a Froome/Porte and I think it becomes clear when Froome/Porte destroy fields from February to July just can't seem to develop enough power to finish on a course suited to them. Meanwhile Vos is still racing consistently.

If it eventually comes out that she's been doping, then it's consistent with the sport. My personal opinion of her is kind of like Schrodinger's cat. Both cases exist simultaneously, but I choose to be optimistic she isn't doping while admitting she may very well be.

 

[D-Queued]

Doping isn't that expensive though. Seriously. Testing is cheap too.

The idea that these women outside of maybe Vos and maybe two others are making more than a low-end salary is ridiculous. Was it last year at World's a woman still had the lawyer tabs on her fork that dramatically slowed a wheel change from neutral support? Some "pro" riders have complained they pay their own travel despite being on an elite ranked UCI team. Yes, it's that amateur.

In the U.S. the woman who qualifies for a spot on a WC team pays for everything including the kit worn during the race. Wiesel funds some riders through the USACDF, but who and how much is secret. A number of the riders have fund-raisers to fund their trip or in some cases their personal wealth is sufficient they don't need outside funding. Of course, other countries and athletes are totally different.

I will never definitively defend Vos as not doping, but she has rainbow jerseys across all disciplines and is always a podium threat if misfortune does not strike all year long for years in a row. That's not the profile of a doper.

Sorry, but this is pretzel logic.

1. I still have the lawyer tabs on my forks. Costs maybe an extra 2s to flip a wheel on and off.

But, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

2. Are you joking?

Dominating in all disciplines would NOT be a sign of doping?

Dave.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Sorry, but this is pretzel logic.

1. I still have the lawyer tabs on my forks. Costs maybe an extra 2s to flip a wheel on and off.

But, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

The point I was trying to make is a race populated with the best female road racing cyclists barely has more than neutral support. The poor woman who qualified for racing the World Championships didn't even have the bike prepped for "racing." AKA filing the lawyer tabs off. That would never happen in the Men's field.

2. Are you joking?

Dominating in all disciplines would NOT be a sign of doping?

Dave.

It would take too long to sort out and I may be entirely wrong anyway. Just call it crazy talk.

 

[D-Queued]

The point I was trying to make is a race populated with the best female road racing cyclists barely has more than neutral support. The poor woman who qualified for racing the World Championships didn't even have the bike prepped for "racing." AKA filing the lawyer tabs off. That would never happen in the Men's field.



It would take too long to sort out and I may be entirely wrong anyway. Just call it crazy talk.

Appreciate that, and not looking to argue, but was reminded of how much people will 'cut corners' with the news item the other day that Disney was eliminating the exemption for handicapped people to have direct access to rides at their theme parks.

Turns out people have been faking it, or hiring handicapped people to get to the head of the line.

Like the women cyclists you are referring to, these people don't get paid to go on rides either. But, they are willing to pay to get around the system and get the results that they want.

Whether they file off the fork tabs or not, women cheat.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

Marianne Vos likes to train in South Africa........is it because foreign athletes rarely get tested?

http://www.iol.co.za/blogs/kevin-mccallum-1.2505/too-many-doping-loopholes-1.1665441#.UzBCM1DD_qA

"Jan Ullrich and Erik Zabel, both of whom doped, were regular visitors. It’s a potential promised land for Europeans to train in when the days are short and cold in their home countries. There is a worry, no matter how small, that some may be abusing the rule that allows those athletes to charge up in South Africa ahead of the European season."

 

[Justinr]

althougi consistency might make an athlete less suspicious, idont think it is the ultimate sign of cleanliness either.,
guys like federer or messi are very constant performers year in year out, week after week, yet few would seriously argue these guys dont dope.

Armstrong was consistent for 7 years in the TdF ...

 

[zigmeister]

I think it was last season, forget the race, where there was a break away of like 10 riders. Vos was sitting in the peloton free wheeling it and soft pedaling.

Then, with like 10 miles to go, she casually just rides off the front of the Peloton. Mind you, nobody follows her, or is capable of following her, for whatever reason. That made no sense first of all.

Then, she bridges the 1-2 minute gap to the break away easily.

After she sits in the break for a few minutes, she then just rides off the front of that group, winning by like 1 minute. Nobody could follow her wheel, even only needing to put out 25-30% less power she is laying down in her draft to do this.

I was dumbfounded and highly confused over that entire situation.

One of two things about woman's cycling struck me in general. One, they suck in comparison and and she is in another league entirely. Yet, I've seen her get smoked by other riders in cross and other races....or.....I think you know the other explanation.

It had to be one of the most ridiculous displays of suspicious cycling I've ever seen.

 

[GJB123]

I think the level in women's cycling is generally pretty low. If you read back in this thread you will also see that Vos smoked her competition from a very young, junior age. From her early teens on she was for all intents and purposes in a league of her own in all cycling and some longtrack skating events.

Now she was either on the juice from let's say age 12-14 already or she really is just a freak of nature.

EDIT: let it be clear that it was no Riis-Armstrong-Wiggings-Froome like transformation for Vos. She didn't go from donkey to racehorse overnight. Doe stat mean she is definitely not doping? Nope but me personally, I think she is a total freak of nature in the way Lemond was and then some. But naturally I could be wrong.

 

[Benotti69]

Nicole Cooke has talked about opening fridges in team apartments that were full of PEDs.

That women's cycling doesn't do doping because there is no money is untrue. Look at Longo, Jeannson, Tammy Thomas and others.

It would be nice if Vos is clean, but this is cycling and women's cycling is dominated by male coaches, DS, soigneurs who learnt the sport the dirty way.

 

[Arnout]

Vos makes in excess of €100k per year excluding sponsor deals, so the no money can't be taken that seriously either.

 

[sniper]

...I think she is a total freak of nature in the way Lemond was and then some. But naturally I could be wrong.

she looks like a freak of nature, that's for sure.
could be her genes, could also be something else.

 

[proffate]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/i-am-marianne-vos

B: In your own career, how have you made your decisions about doping?
MV: I never really had this question. Honestly. I came from juniors into the elite category. In the second race, I was already racing for the victory.

I was really lucky with that and I never had to make a choice like this. Nobody ever even asked me. There was no point. I was already winning.

Of course, I can say, really proud, I've never used doping and I won't. These guys in the '90s, they're all bad guys. But I've never been in their position. I'm happy I didn't have to make that choice, because I like cycling. I don't want to step out of cycling because everybody dopes. I don't know what I should have done in that position. It would have been really difficult for me.

B: You've been outspoken in favor of more testing in women's cycling.
MV: Yes, it shouldn't be a question. The barriers have to be so high that you don't think about it because you will get caught—especially when women's cycling is growing at this moment. It's more professional, more money is involved. If you continue, if you want a contract, the pressure is on. So there might be riders who get the question.

B: How often would you say you are tested out of competition?
MV: Three or four times a year. The total is about 50 a year. Out-of-competition controls are more important than in competition. Because, you're stupid if you win a race and you know you doped; you have to pee, and of course, you will get caught. Out of competition, racers have to fill in our whereabouts so they can test us—but if you're cheating you can be lucky and they don't come. At this point, that percentage can be quite high that you're lucky. And that shouldn't be.

Seems legit. Moreso than any current male cyclist I can think of. Instead of platitudes, actual criticisms: calling out the level of OOC testing as pathetic, and pointing out the futility of over-reliance on in-competition controls.

 

[Merckx index]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/i-am-marianne-vos



Seems legit. Moreso than any current male cyclist I can think of. Instead of platitudes, actual criticisms: calling out the level of OOC testing as pathetic, and pointing out the futility of over-reliance on in-competition controls.

Sounds to me like she's saying the same thing a "current male cyclist" said a few weeks ago while training in Tenerife.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Sounds to me like she's saying the same thing a "current male cyclist" said a few weeks ago while training in Tenerife.

And yet, no "investigation" by the UCI from the sport's greatest cyclist since probably Lemond.

Probably worth reviewing if you haven't seen it already, Inga Thompson just did an interview. She's from a different era, and excellent, but a step below Vos and gives some interesting detail regarding Women's cycling. http://www.theouterline.com/perspectives-on-doping-in-pro-cycling-2-inga-thompson-5/