I think Lance Armstrong is the greatest rider in the last 20 yrs

[grimpeur]

You guys have to know when your being wound up and not, Hinault and Merckx have the greatest palmeres on the planet and are gods of the sport.

It's palmarès troll.

 

[Anonymous]

Well of course Armstrong acts on self interest. It's in his self interest to protect the sport, including the perception of the sport. Therefore it's in his interest to not support those who do things that damage that perception.

Again, there is a difference between narcissism and self interest.

I'm not sure what you mean by, "It isn't as though he passively engages the public in any of this". So what?

What I mean is that his actions are nefarious in nature, and not passively undertaken. He continues to keep his thumb on his "problems" whenever possible. He will however back off when it becomes clear that the truth will come out. Funny how he never sued anyone over those 6 samples with synthetic EPO in them. I wonder why he didn't want any of that presented as evidence in a trial?

Yes, he twitters a few times a day. Again, so what? I've been following him for a few months and haven't seen him mention Lemond (except a link to an article about Lemond) or skin care products. Where do you get this stuff?

You ever ask him to send him a pair of dirty cycling shorts? Anyway, you obviously miss the point.

No doubt. What's your point?

The point is, that is the basis for my dislike of his actions

I'm not following this either. I will say that of course money gives someone power, but as long as that power is not used to violate anyone's rights, what's the problem? How is it your business or mine, or "ours", what Armstrong does with his power and money? If he violates the rights of others, then the line is crossed and it becomes all of ours business, but, so far as I know, he has not done that.

I am not making it my "business" as this is not my profession. To see how he has violated the rights of others, just call the people I mentioned and ask. I think you will find that in any honest assessment, to negatively alter the lives of people who have only been honest about their opinions or what they heard in a hospital room falls under the category of a violation of rights. Then again, maybe you are trying to be argumentative rather than honest.

Again, have they stolen anything? Committed fraud? Murder? What is the problem?

Fraud, why yes, they have.

Yes, I like logic and facts.

Obviously you have some work to do then.

 

[BroDeal]

Why are the Armstrong true believers always the most clueless "fans"?

 

[neil69cyclist]

It's palmarès troll.

You **** !!

 

[Anonymous]

You **** !!

grimpeur, he called you a "****"

I'd chase him down and bring him back to the peloton if I were you.

 

[neil69cyclist]

It's palmarès troll.

Sorry the rude word police caught that one what i said was 'you coc*' sorry I didn't spell Palmeres properly I do make lots of smelling pistakes !!!

 

[Anonymous]

Why are the Armstrong true believers always the most clueless "fans"?

Because they need a hero so that their lives will have meaning.

 

[VeloFidelis]

Thanks for the thread. While you are obviously trolling, I like the direction. I hope you catch all the big ones you're looking for.

It never ceases to amaze me, the amount of emotional investment displayed here in the attacks on, and in the defense of, particular riders and issues. It is a constant reminder that the term Fan is rooted in the word Fanatic.

It's obvious we all love the sport, and pay attention to the details to a much higher degree than most, but it is a huge leap to think that even a small percentage of our deductions and postulations made here are even close to reality.

The most interesting of these being the assumptions made about character of a rider based on an appreciation of riding style, results, charisma, interviews, quotes, or any media based criteria. These are not the insights that they are purported to be.

I have come into contact with a large number of Olympic and world class athletes from many sports in the course of my career, and I am sorry to report that about 1 in 10 of them are people that you would actually enjoy hanging out with. All talent aside, you don't get to the level they have attained in their sports by being a great neighbor, husband, wife, parent, Little League coach, or PTA member. Their athletic pursuits generally take president over all else, or they just don't get to the top.

For some it's pure megalomania, for others it's an all consuming drive and sacrifice they may come to regret later in life. But for all of them it is a work ethic that we cannot really comprehend, and a choice with consequences we never see. Some become more mellow as their competitive prowess fades, and some are made bitter by the experience, but all are kept in the game by a competitive nature that we can only wonder about.

It's great to be entertained by their performance and athleticism. It's great to have favorites base on any criteria that you want to use. But projecting that any of that gives you some kind of insight into their personality or character is a waste of your time. Enjoy your favorites for what they are; a guy on a bike riding his *** off, and trying his hardest to support a winning effort.

That and the fact that he a is a lot better cyclist than you or I, is all you really know about him anyway, and that should be enough.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry the rude word police caught that one what i said was 'you coc*' sorry I didn't spell Palmeres properly I do make lots of smelling pistakes !!!

"one eyed trouser snake" will get past the censors.

 

[titan_90]

Why are the Armstrong true believers always the most clueless "fans"?

Because, hey never take their head out of Armstrong's *** long enough to see the real world.

 

[neil69cyclist]

Sorry guys what is trolling or should I google it

 

[neil69cyclist]

Sorry guys what is trolling or should I google it

Yeah just googled it ... you might be right but it it does show some of you up to being slightly bitter and twisted but hey aren't we all at times

 

[Anonymous]

As to jackhammer's typically ignorant response (the number of times you stupidly fall into asserting thoughts that are clearly ignorant and easily refuted it amusing. See just about any thread for clarification.), well, I really intended to address the author of the thread in a respectful manner. I guess this is all a game of "Gotcha" favored by people with simple minds and opinions for you, so I will leave it and move on to discussion with people who have thoughtful ideas to present.

If you are going to comment on my comments you should quote them not just go off on you typical tiresome rants about me.

 

[grimpeur]

Why are the Armstrong true believers always the most clueless "fans"?

I think the blind adulation leads to much of the doping centric threads in these forums.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Again, there is a difference between narcissism and self interest.

Sure, fine. Perhaps not all superstars are narcissistic, but many obviously are. So what?

What I mean is that his actions are nefarious in nature, and not passively undertaken. He continues to keep his thumb on his "problems" whenever possible. He will however back off when it becomes clear that the truth will come out. Funny how he never sued anyone over those 6 samples with synthetic EPO in them. I wonder why he didn't want any of that presented as evidence in a trial?

Well of course he didn't want that evidence presented - it would destroy his clean image.

You ever ask him to send him a pair of dirty cycling shorts? Anyway, you obviously miss the point.

I do. Can you spell it out for me, please?

The point is, that is the basis for my dislike of his actions

So what? Is anyone asking you to like his actions?

I am not making it my "business" as this is not my profession. To see how he has violated the rights of others, just call the people I mentioned and ask.

Why ask them. You're the one implying that is the case, while espousing the virtues of using facts and logic. Well?

I think you will find that in any honest assessment, to negatively alter the lives of people who have only been honest about their opinions or what they heard in a hospital room falls under the category of a violation of rights.

Not according to any definition of rights that I'm familiar with.

Then again, maybe you are trying to be argumentative rather than honest.

I'm not even sure what your point is, much less whether I agree with it or not.

Fraud, why yes, they have.

Is this your idea of using facts?

Obviously you have some work to do then.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[grimpeur]

Yeah just googled it ... you might be right but it it does show some of you up to being slightly bitter and twisted but hey aren't we all at times

My fault, I took the bait. I've been following the sport for about 40 years. I respect the past, the riders and their achievements.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Great laugh.
Nothing faintly related to cycling.
A sure sign it's July next week.
Why's the new guy using his IQ in his ID?

 

[neil69cyclist]

I think the blind adulation leads to much of the doping centric threads in these forums.

No I think it's about 3 or 4 people that seem to have nothing better to say, lets start a thread that talks about the actual racing, I'll try and start one now.

 

[pmcg76]

Sorry guys what is trolling or should I google it

You are in the pro-Lance camp and you dont know what trolling is!!! the guy invented this particular phrase. Like your average Lance fan, your knowledge of the sport is seriously limited to all things Lance and only the LA version.

Lance is probably best cyclist of last 20 years but concentrated solely on Tour so maybe best TDF rider is more appropiate, definitely not better than Hinault though.

All you have to do is ask any Lance fan to justify about his chasing down of Filippo Simeoni and watch them squirm and blow it of as a minor issue. One of the most heinous things ever done in cycling.

Again, Lance for no reason chased down a nobody cyclist in a break because he was testifying against the recognised biggest doping doctor in the history of cycling. Why? and how was he protecting the interests of the sport? Answers please and dont try to tell me this was minor.

I think many people on here were originally Lance fans but his attitude and methods eventually turned a lot of people of him including myself. I was a Lance fan before most of the lovers on here knew who Lance even was. Again, how many Lance fans have been with the sport pre-1999 other than Dimspace.

 

[neil69cyclist]

Great laugh.
Nothing faintly related to cycling.
A sure sign it's July next week.
Why's the new guy using his IQ in his ID?

Ow! that hurts no need to be personal, I was attacked for my disleckseer, dyslecsia, bad spelling !! now this !!

 

[Amsterhammer]

.....Again, how many Lance fans have been with the sport pre-1999 other than Dimspace.

Me, for one. I've been following the three major tours as well as the classics ever since I came to Holland, 20 years ago. Before that, when I lived in England, cycling on tv was non-existent.

Oh, and I've been a Lance fan since he won in the rain in Oslo.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Because they need a hero so that their lives will have meaning.

And you lot need a hate figure to justify the misery, envy and bitterness that consumes your sad lives.

 

[39*23t]

Well maybe I don't, but no matter which side of the argument you take he won 7 tours against the competition. The '99' samples are the only 'evidence' of him doping so what about the next 6 years, if he was doping so was everyone else at the top level so he won on a level'ish' playing field.

He also won with some quite impressive rides and attacks, BUT he only rode at that level for the tour so he trained for that one event and made it work.

Bring on the vitriol !!

prefer Big Mig myself

 

[neil69cyclist]

You are in the pro-Lance camp and you dont know what trolling is!!! the guy invented this particular phrase. Like your average Lance fan, your knowledge of the sport is seriously limited to all things Lance and only the LA version.

Lance is probably best cyclist of last 20 years but concentrated solely on Tour so maybe best TDF rider is more appropiate, definitely not better than Hinault though.

All you have to do is ask any Lance fan to justify about his chasing down of Filippo Simeoni and watch them squirm and blow it of as a minor issue. One of the most heinous things ever done in cycling.

Again, Lance for no reason chased down a nobody cyclist in a break because he was testifying against the recognised biggest doping doctor in the history of cycling. Why? and how was he protecting the interests of the sport? Answers please and dont try to tell me this was minor.

I think many people on here were originally Lance fans but his attitude and methods eventually turned a lot of people of him including myself. I was a Lance fan before most of the lovers on here knew who Lance even was. Again, how many Lance fans have been with the sport pre-1999 other than Dimspace.

pmcg76, I just got criticised for my IQ because of my username seems like we are in the same boat !!!

I have been racing and riding bikes from the age of 12 (BMX super star, then onwards and upwards from there ) and the clue is in the username this would put me at 7 yrs older than you so been through the gamut of heros in cycling ..... OH NO have I just admitted to being a Lance fan DOH !!!!!

I am NOT a lance fan, I might be a troller but I have ridden and raced at a level beyond most so if you want to go mano e mano on what it takes to ride a bike then bring it on.

I head off on the 7th July to ride around the world for a year does that put me in the category of a cycling enthusiast

 

[Anonymous]

I think many people on here were originally Lance fans but his attitude and methods eventually turned a lot of people of him including myself. I was a Lance fan before most of the lovers on here knew who Lance even was. Again, how many Lance fans have been with the sport pre-1999 other than Dimspace.

I remember Lemond and Indurain being covered on Wide World of Sports and I was fascinated, but it wasn't easy to follow cycling in America.

About the time Lance was working on number 3 I started think it would be cool for someone to crack him. When came to six it was time to pull for him again. Went back to rooting for others on number seven.

Until recently I was pulling for AC but there's been so much venom against lance here that I'm pulling for him again!

You folks have to know he thrives on this stuff don't you? All of his life.