I'm done with the tour

[hrotha]

This year, with the two-week long first week, the traditional breakaway stages have been greatly reduced compared to what was normal 10-15 years ago. He has a point, but of course he's just frustrated because he lost.

 

[benpounder]

The big difference now compared to 10 years ago is the greed of teams like HTC...

Now a team like HTC isn't satisfied with a win or two anymore. They want 5 or 6 or 7 wins. It also doesn't help that Cavendish is so good in the sprints...

Somehow, I think Merckx and Hinault would take exception. Not for being so good, but the silly attribution of greed.

 

[El Pistolero]

I'll be glad when a lot of good people leave HTC though. They're just too strong, like Astana in 2009. Only difference is they work together.

 

[benpounder]

It's very rare that you have one sprinter that is so much better than everyone else. Not even Cipollini was that much better than his opponents...

Cipo was just as good, and benefitted from just the same style team. Both were/are masters at being launched 100m from the finish at 60kph and taking it to 70kph by the finish.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

...A few sprinters have won four stages, (but never five or six) in a single Tour (Cipo, Petacchi, Steels), but no-one has done it twice. Cavendish's dominance is unprecedented.

Surprised the Belgians aren't all over this post.

As for the HTC train blocking the road, what's to stop FDJ doing the same to them. Why don't one team block HTC in while anyone who wants to be in a break goes up the road? When HTC reel them in, repeat. And why not put a large number in that break, like three guys from one team, one of whom is a decent TTer? Make HTC work their collective socks off to rein in a series of break attempts and you may wear them down.

What can never beat the HTC team pursuit is a small group of 5 or so, all from rival teams, going on an 150 mile break.

 

[El Pistolero]

Surprised the Belgians aren't all over this post.

As for the HTC train blocking the road, what's to stop FDJ doing the same to them. Why don't one team block HTC in while anyone who wants to be in a break goes up the road? When HTC reel them in, repeat. And why not put a large number in that break, like three guys from one team, one of whom is a decent TTer? Make HTC work their collective socks off to rein in a series of break attempts and you may wear them down.

What can never beat the HTC team pursuit is a small group of 5 or so, all from rival teams, going on an 150 mile break.

Because HTC don't mind getting physical with another cyclist.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I don't understand why it's so difficult to break up the HTC train. Yeah they have strong riders, but aggresive riders and teams have shown how to disrupt it plenty of times. All you have to do is time it properly; a well timed lead-out/attack from Garmin, OPL, or Sky (if not all three at some point in the closing kms) should be enough to break it up. It looks like these teams are giving a lead out to Cav's wheel and then they back off hoping their sprinter is fast enough to kick past Cav . If Gilbert had two or three teammates and went off the front a little later, they would have had a much better chance. Garmin also did a good job; Farrar looked faster than Cav, but they didn't go at the right time. Cav can still win without his train, but it's not guaranteed as it is with his train. Beating him is all about timing.

Until teams are willing to assert themselves enough to really disrupt the HTC train, they have no room to complain. Cav's wheel is not the finish line.

 

[Mambo95]

Surprised the Belgians aren't all over this post.

I meant in recent years. Sure, there was Maertens but that was a different era. They had about 28 stages back then, sometimes three in one day.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

I meant in recent years. Sure, there was Maertens but that was a different era. They had about 28 stages back then, sometimes three in one day.

There were also a few TTs amongst those wins.

I agreed with you totally, Cavendish's dominance is unprecedented. I'm just surprised because Maertens's name usually gets trotted out in discussions like this.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

Because HTC don't mind getting physical with another cyclist.

So what we're saying is that rather than take HTC on, teams allow themselves to be bullied and then whinge about it to reporters while Cavendish is kissing the podium girls.

It seems to me that they're all getting what they deserve.

 

[fujisst]

give Terpstra some cheese to go along with his whine...

he's getting paid very well to ride a bike. where's the appreciation that he's actually living the dream of maybe 90% of those of us that ride a bike??

quit griping and do your job - with a smile...

 

[taiwan]

I don't understand why it's so difficult to break up the HTC train. Yeah they have strong riders, but aggresive riders and teams have shown how to disrupt it plenty of times. All you have to do is time it properly; a well timed lead-out/attack from Garmin, OPL, or Sky (if not all three at some point in the closing kms) should be enough to break it up. It looks like these teams are giving a lead out to Cav's wheel and then they back off hoping their sprinter is fast enough to kick past Cav . If Gilbert had two or three teammates and went off the front a little later, they would have had a much better chance. Garmin also did a good job; Farrar looked faster than Cav, but they didn't go at the right time. Cav can still win without his train, but it's not guaranteed as it is with his train. Beating him is all about timing.

Until teams are willing to assert themselves enough to really disrupt the HTC train, they have no room to complain. Cav's wheel is not the finish line.

I think the difference with HTC is just the quality of the riders they put in the train and the commitment. They have a lot of wattage, including GC wattage, at Cav's disposal. They're well practised as well, and success breeds success. It can't hurt to know you have say an 90% chance of winning the stage if you get Cav in a decent position. I didn't like Cav pointing it out after stage 15 though.

Sky have the train but not the sprinter. Garmin were the closest rivals in my book, but maybe they don't always put that many guys in the train, or maybe Farrar just prefers to work off Cav's wheel if he can. The late attack technique is a sweet one, but there are only a few riders who are dangerous enough to pull it off I suppose. I don't even totally understand how it works but it does.

OT though. What Terpstra needs is a harder stage.

 

[ingsve]

Somehow, I think Merckx and Hinault would take exception. Not for being so good, but the silly attribution of greed.

I wasn't around back then but I'm sure it sucked just as hard when they dominated everything as well.

 

[therhodeo]

The late attack technique is a sweet one, but there are only a few riders who are dangerous enough to pull it off I suppose. I don't even totally understand how it works but it does.

I would like to see a few guys try it at once. Just keep swamping the front till they burn HTC up.

 

[taiwan]

I would like to see a few guys try it at once. Just keep swamping the front till they burn HTC up.

Gilbert, Thomas and Millar in quick succession would have to make a dent. I think It's a tactic Hondo's used before as well.

 

[ingsve]

Cipo was just as good, and benefitted from just the same style team. Both were/are masters at being launched 100m from the finish at 60kph and taking it to 70kph by the finish.

The difference between them is that when Cipo didn't have his train to dominate the finish he rarely won but Cavendish can still win on his own since he has an acceleration that Cipo didn't have to the same extent. Cipo was more of a power sprinter who could maintain a high top speed set by his team. Also Cipo never survived into the second half of a Tour so there was never a situation where his team would control the stages that typically ended in long breaks staying away.

 

[sashimono]

If Sammy Dumoulin can win a TdF stage, what's Terpstra's problem?

 

[Roninho]

I think it is a right decision. He still have the classics, week-long races, Vuelta and Giro...There is plenty out there out of the TdF. I think Freire was smart this year in that regard, although we need to wait for his Vuelta and Worlds.

He could do the Vuelta or the Giro, but if he goes for a long break in a flat stage like yesterday in the Vuelta or the Giro he won't win as well.

A rider like Terpstra can race 15 giro's, tdf's and vuelta's combined, and maybe get one or two shots to win such a stage by a long break.

 

[trevim]

Two, IIRC.

I guess you're right. He was dropped from that breakaway to St. Flour (?) where Voeckler got the jersey.

 

[function]

Sorry old ****, its not a game for Domestiques. If you cant sprint or climb, youd be better off in another sport.

Nikki who?

Terpstra is more than just a domestique... I think what i find disconcerting is how anyone who doesn't have multiple TDF stage wins or classic wins is considered some 2nd rate rider. If you actually watch the races that Terpstra has been in (and the competition) and watch how he races them, even from your armchair you can appreciate that the guy has a lot of talent (even for a professional). He is well within his right for complaining that the TDF is not suited to wins from non sprinters and climbers, there are rare exceptions (emphasis exceptions) where that isn't the case.

 

[taiwan]

If Sammy Dumoulin can win a TdF stage, what's Terpstra's problem?

can both climb and sprint.

 

[krismtb]

A few sprinters have won four stages, (but never five or six) in a single Tour (Cipo, Petacchi, Steels), but no-one has done it twice. Cavendish's dominance is unprecedented.

While Cav does appear dominant you really have to consider his team as a major factor. Yesterday, for example, he only won because of his leadout. Farrar was clearly out-sprinting him but just ran out of room. If Farrar had a better leadout, he would have got a better jump and had more rest.

If you notice the Sky leadout, I think EBH was leading Swift out and EBH had spent too much time and peeled off way too early .. Swift simply tucked in behind the rest of the HTC + train and never really made it up to the front.

So I would not necessarily consider Cav, by himself, better than all of the current sprinters. I do give him credit for sticking to his lead-out and the timing of HTC's train, and his ability to execute.

As for breaking up the HTC train so they don't catch the breakaway, good luck. You can't just go up front and block, thats ridiculous talk. They have the power to take the time back all by themselves, and will continue to do so. Maybe a small, steep climb a couple KM from the finish will break up the train but that can't always be available.

By the way, enough talk about the stage where Voeckler won all his time as an example for when breaks work ... I am pretty sure the crash and subsequent voluntary slow-down of the peloton contributed to that.

 

[Mambo95]

While Cav does appear dominant you really have to consider his team as a major factor. Yesterday, for example, he only won because of his leadout. Farrar was clearly out-sprinting him but just ran out of room. If Farrar had a better leadout, he would have got a better jump and had more rest.

If you notice the Sky leadout, I think EBH was leading Swift out and EBH had spent too much time and peeled off way too early .. Swift simply tucked in behind the rest of the HTC + train and never really made it up to the front.

So I would not necessarily consider Cav, by himself, better than all of the current sprinters. I do give him credit for sticking to his lead-out and the timing of HTC's train, and his ability to execute.

Sure his team helps. But he's shown many times that he is the best even without a team. There was no team at the end on stage 5, for example. In 2008 he won four stages with no better team than anyone else. Can you really see Greipel winning Milan-San Remo like he did? Or Farrar blowing everyone away like in the 2010 stages once Renshaw had left?

Farrar and Greipel look on a par because they haven't been wearing themselves out on the intermediate sprints every day. And where are their leadouts? Dean, Hushovd and Millar are a match for HTC's final 3.

 

[Mambo95]

Terpstra is more than just a domestique... I think what i find disconcerting is how anyone who doesn't have multiple TDF stage wins or classic wins is considered some 2nd rate rider. If you actually watch the races that Terpstra has been in (and the competition) and watch how he races them, even from your armchair you can appreciate that the guy has a lot of talent (even for a professional). He is well within his right for complaining that the TDF is not suited to wins from non sprinters and climbers, there are rare exceptions (emphasis exceptions) where that isn't the case.

Here's Terpstra's wins in a seven year career:

2005
1st Omloop der Kempen (1.2)

2006
1st Stage 6 Tour of Normandy (2.2)
1st Stage 2 OZ Wielerweekend (2.2)
1st OZ Wielerweekend (2.2)

2009
1st Prologue Ster ZLM Toer (2.1)
1st Stage 3 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré

2010
1st National Road Race Champion
1st SparkassenGiro Bochum (1.1)

His highest position on CQ ranking is 118th

This is not the top class rider you're making him out to be. He's a journeyman pro.

 

[The Sheep]

Does his palmeres make his opinion any less valid?